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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: dalkey mc on Wednesday 25 January 12 16:42 GMT (UK)
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Looking for the marriage of John & Mary McDonald 1907 & birth of John(junior) in 1909 approx.They are on the 1911 census in Dalkey.John (junior) died in 1970 in Germany & on his death cert it says he was born 8th December 1909 in Wexford but we dont know if this correct as when he was taken to Germany he was very ill & may have been confused.
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Do you know Mary's maiden name ?
It would make a marriage search much easier..
Shane
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For reference this looks like the return for the family in 1911
McDonald household, St. Patricks Ave, Dalkey (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Dalkey/St__Patrick_s_Avenue/95808/)
Parents John and Mary born Co. Dublin and Co. Meath respectively. Sons John (age 3yrs) and Patrick (age 9 mon) born Dalkey.
I'd say Patrick might be the place to start as his age is likely the most accurate. 9 months before the census puts his birth around the end of June / beginning of July 1910. The district for Dalkey is Rathdown..
There's only seems to be one match during 1910 ... a little later than June/July, but he could have been registered late :
Name: Patrick McDonald
Registration district: Rathdown
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Oct-Dec 1910
Volume: 2 / Page: 799
Shane
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John's birth is a little more difficult - he's 3 on the census so a year of birth maybe between 1907 and 1909. Four possible matches for him - two with middle name Joseph, one with Peter as a middle name.
See : John McDonald births, Rathdown (https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AJohn~%20%2Bsurname%3AMcDonald~%20%2Bbirth_place%3ARathdown%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1907-1909~&collection_id=1408347)
Shane
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When you get more info this 1901 census may be worth looking at:
I'm not saying it is him but there are a few similarities:
Rough age / occupation
My own family name is Mc Donnell and has changed backwards and forwards from McDonnell / McDonald LOTS over the years
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Dundrum/Churchtown_Lr___Windy_Arbour_/1316282/
Tara
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Thanks Shane,sorry but we dont know Marys maiden name,but will send for Patricks
birth cert.
Thanks Tara,I did wonder if the name may have changed over the years.
On my in-laws marriage cert it said she lived in the Commercial Hotel Dun Laoghaire,any idea where it was?is,my husband can't place it.(meant to say mother-in-law)
Big thanks to gro Roscommon sent for cert on 18th & received it today 25th,speedy service especially as that included a weekend.
Natalie
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what year was the marriage ?
S.
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There is a marriage for John M'Donnell RATHDOWN Jul-Sep 1907 Vol2 Page 860 with a match to a Mary M'Guiness
You could keep this in mind as John based on census stating married 4 years in 1911
If Patrick's mother's maiden name matches
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IF IF IF it does turn out to be Mary McGuinness this MIGHT be her in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Rathmines/Grosvener_Road/1295620/
Tara
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I saw that as well Tara but decided to park until there was proof but it could well be a good match with John a Gardener
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I'm a divil 'MYLUCK' - I'm always getting carried away !!
'DalkeyMC' - please get your cert before going forward !
Tara
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On my in-laws marriage cert it said she lived in the Commercial Hotel Dun Laoghaire,any idea where it was?is,my husband can't place it.(meant to say mother-in-law)
I have been reliable informed after intensive enquires (sounds good ;D)
that the Hotel in question was on Georges St. lower (I always get mixed up in this -but its the Peoples Pk. end )
two or three oldies I asked remembered other members of their family dancing in the Commericial--the best way to position it at the moment is it would have been opposite Sheens Undertakers-
the business that is /was on the spot was mentioned in the news recently
Higgly Piggley or something like that-they have a liquidation sale coming up
next week ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)
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Hi Dalkey MC
I had found a number of references to the Commercial Hotel in the Irish Newspaper Archives but it was listed in all cases without a street address so I knew it had to have been in a prominent position. I visited the Dun Laoghaire local library today and thanks to Vintage1’s 'intensive enquiries' :) my search was made much easier as I immediately started with Georges Street in Thom’s Directory for that year and I found the hotel with ease.
The full title and address was:
Ryan’s Commercial Hotel
56, Upr. Georges Street
Dun Laoghaire.
I am not sure how familiar you are with the area but the hotel was situated down near the People’s Park opposite two pubs which are still in existence Walters and The Cosy.
Looking at the photo the numbers run from RIGHT to LEFT, the shop front has obviously changed but the windows on the first floor would show, I imagine, that No 56 was the first two windows from the right.
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8113/010kd.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/010kd.jpg/)
I checked a number of Directories for Tyrrell’s Lane / Cottages without success but will keep trying.
John.
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Hi John thanks for confirming my info
thats the place -I knew it was Higgley something or other -
I always mix up Upr.& Lower Georges St. :( :(
regards
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Thanks to everyone for your help,i think i've found John (junior) birthin New Ross so am sending for the cert aswell as Patricks,but i dont know what i will gain from this as i read that the mothers maiden name was not put on certs until 1926.
Thanks for the photo of the hotel,i've visited Dun Laoghaire many times & must have walked passed,if only we'd known at the time.Ihave a friend thats coming over in the summer so will get her to take lots of photos for me.
Natalie
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As far as I know, the mother's maiden name is virtually always on the Birth Cert.
On the family-search site, it isn't shown in the indexes until 1928.
In the GRO it's shown in indexes from about 1903 or so.
I'm not sure when they started putting the mother's names on Marriage Certs. 1960s, I think.
eadaoin
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Thanks eadaoin,i can't believe how helpful people are on this site,cant wait to get the certificates.
Natalie
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Got the two certs today,good news & bad,john & patrick are not brothers.johns parents are ambrose & mary (nee doyle)mcdonald.Marys mother(catherine doyle)was present at the birth.
on the 1911 census ambrose & mary together with children mary,edward,john & john doyle are living with parents edward & bridget mcdonald in wexford.
patrick was born in dalkey,his parents were john & mary(nee mcguinness)mcdonald.
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That's great news dalkeymc
you can now get the marriage cert that 'myluck' gave you the details of and go back another generation !
Tara
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Hi Tara,the marriage that myluck mentioned is not my family,i need the marriage of ambrose mcdonald & mary doyle approx 1902 in wexford,which i cant find.
Natalie
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Hi Natalie
I am a bit confused as you started this whole thread saying that you were looking for a John McDonald b abt 1909 son of a John & Mary McDonald.
Did you just presume that this was his parent's names, and that the people in Dalkey were the family that you were looking for ?
Are you positive that this Ambrose is his father and that you have the correct birth cert, and no just a coincidental one ?
LOL ! I just want to be sure you are not going on a wild goose chase !
If so, this is his baptism
Ambrose McDonald
12 Apr 1872
Carrigbyrne, Wex, Ireland
Parents Edward McDonald & Bridget Doyle
This is the marriage of Ambrose & Mary Doyle
Ambrose M'Donald
Registered Apr-May-Jun 1902
District New Ross
Volume 4 Page 377
Tara
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Thank you so much Tara,yeah i did presume the dalkey mcdonalds were our family,i'm new to this lol,ambrose & mary are the right ones.we have my father-in-laws death cert which had his date of birth on,but he died in germany & we have never been able to find out what happened to his body so didnt know wether the date of birth was correct.
I've looked for ambrose death & found 2 both in wexford,how do i find out which one it is? one died in 1949 aged 76 the other in 1958 aged 86 so if i'm thinking right it could be either.
Another trip to the shops for me to get more euro for certificates!
Natalie
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It will probably just be a process of elimination as they were born within 2 years of each other
Here are 2 more baptisms of Edward & Bridget's children:
Mary McDonald
13 Sep 1865
Carrickbyrne, Wexford, Ireland
Parents Edward McDonald & Bridget Doyle
Michael McDonald
18 Apr 1869
Carrickbyrne, Wexford, Ireland
Parents Edward McDonald & Bridget Doyle
This looks like it could be Michael in 1901 (which would make his wife Ellen Carroll)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Newbawn/Newcastle/1796768/
This family tree business is an expensive one lol !
Tara
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Thanks again Tara,i think i will go for the 1949 death first as it was in new ross & get the marriage cert for ambrose.
I wish i had got into this when we used to come over to ireland,we haven't been over since 2007 due to my husbands ill health.
everyone is so kind on here so thank you once again.
Natalie
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Sorry to hear about your husband Natalie :(
Glad to be able to help somewhat !
Tara
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I'm very grateful to you,when i win the lotto(lol) we'll be back we used to come over atleast once a year & had good times,flying in to dublin was like coming home.
Natalie
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Hi Dalkey MC
I was out in Dun Laoghaire Library yesterday and went back as far as the 1911 Thom’s Directory but could find no mention of Tyrrell’s Lane nor could I find anyone named Tyrrell listed. I had this problem when trying to find Valetta Avenue, the address my G/Grandfather was living at in ’01 and ’11. Assuming now that the name predated both census and was no longer in use (from 1911 anyway) I had a look again at the Census and found there were four dwellings listed in 1911 on Tyrrell’s Lane but seven in 1901 so I have had a look at the Griffiths Valuation on the askaboutireland site and there is a Gerald Tyrrell listed both as a renter of land and landlord with property all over Dalkey. Five of his sites on the Griffiths Valuation Map might fit the bill; they are numbers 21, 23, 24, 25 and 36. The latter had the magical seven dwellings but it is far removed from where both you and I had thought the Lane might have been.
Anyway, have a look, it might help to narrow down your search and I will keep looking.
I wish your husband well.
John.
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Thanks John,i dont think we'll find them.its strange that they were there in 1935 not that far back.i just wished my b-i-law was still alive he might have known where they were.thanks for your help.
Natalie & Dermot