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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: cynmac on Tuesday 24 January 12 20:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: cynmac on Tuesday 24 January 12 20:29 GMT (UK)
Hello List

I have a 1841 census return of John Brocklebank b 1805 Lancaster with wife Jane b 1805 in Coniston (was in Lancs then).
I cannot find a marriage but Jane may have been his second wife.
A Grandson was named John Kirkby Brocklebank and am wondering if he was named with his Grandmother's maiden name as there was a Jane Kirkby b 1805 in Coniston.
Could someone give me any ideas where to look for a marriage as I can't find one at the Church in Coniston.
Any help & suggestions woild be appreciated.  Thanks
Cmac
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 24 January 12 20:59 GMT (UK)
What is Johns occupation please,
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 24 January 12 21:08 GMT (UK)
Broughton in Furness,
St Mary Magdalene
John Brocklebank,widower of this parish,husbandsman
Jane Kirby ,spinster of this parish
13th of November 1834
witness to marriage Hartley Kirby and Edward Brocklebank
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: welsh lady on Tuesday 24 January 12 21:31 GMT (UK)
Found 2 baptisms so far
St mary Magdalane
Broughton in Furness
Father-John Brocklebank occ-Husbandman
Mother-Jane
Abode-Dryhill
Mary Brocklebank-18th jan 1834
Sarah Brocklebank-13th Sept 1835

Welsh Lady
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 24 January 12 21:59 GMT (UK)
I can not find a birth for a Hartley Kirby  but I think he is   Janes brother named John, in his baptism,he seems to have moved further up into Cumberland and himself has a son Hartley,



11th of May 1803 John son of John Kirby,St Andrew Coniston
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: cynmac on Tuesday 24 January 12 22:46 GMT (UK)
Hi List

Very many thanks to all who replied.  This is just what I was looking for.
On the 1841 census John's occupation is a Farmer so husbandman is good.
The first two girls on the census were b 1829 and 1831 so they would be to his first wife
This gives a small window for the death of his first wife and his remarriage.
Just have to find the first wife now.
I also haven't got any further back with John Brocklebank but a good lead now is an Edward as a wedding witness.
All your help has been invaluable and any other info would be gratefully received
Thanks very much
Cmcf
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 January 12 07:12 GMT (UK)
There are two marriages to have a closer look at

Geographicaly very close

St Marys Dalton in Furness
14th of November 1829
John Brockbank of Stenton, (Stainton) Urswick
Isabella Slater spinster of Newton
brides father William Slater
witness to marriage John Shepherd and Margaret Butler

St Mary the  Virgin and St Michael Urswick
28th of December 1829
John Brockbank,age 21,husbandman,batchelor
Margaret Clarke ,age 21,spinster of Kirby Ireleth
witness to marriage James Hunter and Mary Simpson
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 January 12 07:35 GMT (UK)
If I am looking at the correct 1841 census ,there is a 75 year old Sarah Brocklebank,living with them as well as 14 year old Matthew


21ST of September 1802
St Marys Dalton in Furness,
John Brockbank, son of Edward and Sarah
Abode Billincote,
father a husbandman

Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: cynmac on Wednesday 25 January 12 08:36 GMT (UK)
Thank you Radcliffe
This is the correct 1841 census return.  I noticed Matthew & Sarah.  I can't find Matthew on any later census and certainly Sarah could be the Mother, she also is not on any later census. As the 1841 census does not state relationship I could not be 100% certain that she would be the Mother and don't know what relationship Matthew wold be but now I am sure Sarah is the Mother of John. Also now you have given me the correct age for John as in the 1841 census ages were rounded up to a 5.
I still need to  think about the other two marriages you gave me , but I had a hunch that
John had been married before. Still could have been one of these for a first marriage.
Thank you for your help.
Are these records online ?
Cheers
Cynmac
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: welsh lady on Wednesday 25 January 12 08:47 GMT (UK)
The marriages and baptisms are online from Lancashire opc site

Welsh Lady
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 January 12 08:53 GMT (UK)
The name Brocklebank and Brockbank  are still here where I live and my knowledge of the geography helps ,
I am using a few different resources ,I am not 100% sure your man is from Lancaster,my thoughts being more likely Lancashire,

there is another marriage a few years  earlier ,but I haven't found deaths for these ladies,

Matthew could be Johns nephew and grandson of Sarah ,I will post snippets and you can decide if they are relevant,

I must point out that any thing I do post must be checked and not taken as gospel,
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 January 12 09:34 GMT (UK)
a baptisms to follow up,
familysearchorg
John Brocklebank son of Edward and Sarah 21st of September 1802
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: cynmac on Wednesday 25 January 12 19:20 GMT (UK)
Thank you Radcliffe for your interest.
I am sorry that I seem to have mislead you as I now realise that in 1851 John Brocklebank gives his place of birth as Hawkeshead , Lancashire and Jane's place of birth is Coniston .  This now makes me wonder if Hawkeshead would be a parish of it's own or would they use another Church  (or maybe the Mother's home place) for a baptism.
So you were right in your presumption of John's birthplace
Does this make any of the info I have received more likely or less ?

Any info however small is much appreciated and will be cross checked .
Thanks again for your help
cynmac
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 January 12 19:45 GMT (UK)
Not at all,

There is no baptism for John in Hawkshead,



Matthew Brockbank,living with John and Jane , whom I suspect is a relation is possibly the son of Robert and Agness
baptism Hawkshead 31st of July 1825
father a house carpenter,

sorry he isnt hi died aged 4 years ,will look for another one,
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 January 12 20:00 GMT (UK)
There is a marrige bond for Sarah Shepherd aged 23 and Edward  Brockbank aged 28 of Sinfoil,this in modern naming is Sinkfall there is a farm of this name  within the  parish boundry of  Dalton,available to buy from Lancashire archives,it may be relevant later on in your research,
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 January 12 20:07 GMT (UK)
This area is an area where people moved around for  farm work and as he is a husbandman he may have moved so much he is unsure of his actual birth place,just keep every thing for a rainy day,and then sort through it,
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 January 12 20:24 GMT (UK)
If Mary was baptised Broughton to John and Jane Brocklebank this was before they were married ?
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: cynmac on Wednesday 25 January 12 21:37 GMT (UK)
You have now given me plenty to think about tomorrow.
I will have to try to get my head round all this info & sort the info into some sort of order.
Can't thank you enough for your suggestions.  I will chart out what I know for sure & see if the traditional naming pattern shows who could belong to who.
Cheers
cmac
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 27 January 12 19:43 GMT (UK)
I hadn't forgotten about your posting and have been looking around the area,

In 1811 there is an Edward he is yeoman ,death,from Torver,just down the road from Coniston and not that far over the tops from Broughton,his probate record is at Lancashire archives, I haven't found any thing else on him as yet,besides the fact I can find no further information on  Sarah who is living with John and Jane and Matthew,
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: cynmac on Tuesday 31 January 12 20:31 GMT (UK)
Thank you to everyone who replied to my request especially Radcliffe.  I have now evaluated all info & crosschecked where possible. Having now charted the info I can see a pattern.
Thank you for all your time & interest I couldn't have got past my brick wall without you.
Cynmac
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 31 January 12 21:22 GMT (UK)
All Saints Satterthwaite,
John Kirby son of John Kirby and Barbara formerly Hartley
9th of Jan 1780
abode Grizedale
John the elder is the son of William Kirby of Thwaites in Millom,
mother is the daughter of Jonathon and Barbara Hartley of Birker in Cumberland,


a later baptism for his brother Henry ,,1781,gives his grandparents as William and Agnes Kirby of Gornel Ground Millom,and Jonathon and Barbara Hartley of Birkir Cumberland
Title: Re: Kirkby of Coniston
Post by: Claudia Oliver on Tuesday 23 June 20 19:33 BST (UK)
Fairly sure I am related to some of the Brockbank's discussed in this thread. My Edward Brockbank born 1815 in Dalton. His parents I believe were Edward B and Sarah Shepherd. Happy to discuss if this thread is still live but I appreciate it's a while ago now.