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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: wrjones on Monday 23 January 12 10:31 GMT (UK)
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One would have thought that the benefits of having a Private Tree on Ancestry would be merely to keep the details of perhaps "living relatives" private?
However as I have found out just recently,people wishing to view a so called Public Tree do not get to see all the info contained within it.
I contacted someone just a few days ago and to my surprise they said in return messages that they were not able to see all the info in my Tree even though it is a "Public Tree".For the first time ever I had to go through the procedure of giving them "full access" to my Tree in the same way as one would if it was "Private".
Would the question of whether the person I contacted was a subscribed member of Ancestry or not be a factor in this?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Like virtually all sites, it is Ancestry's policy to withhold any information on trees pertaining to living people (Of course, occasionally a few people slip through the net, usually when no date of birth is entered). This means that Public trees and Private trees will not show the details of living people, unless the owner grants permission to view this data. It should not make any difference whether the 'viewer' is a subscriber or not, but if they are not a subscriber they will not be able to see any of your tree unless you give them the necessary permissions.
I only ever give close family members access to all the data that includes living people. Most of the time there is no reason for the person looking at my tree to need to know my exact date of birth and all my parents' info, etc.
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I must admit that perhaps with a few of these things I didn't read the full terms etc when uploading my Tree.However my main point is that given Ancestry's policy towards living people;Why is there any need for such a thing as a "Private Tree"?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I think private trees are for people who do not want all their family information (however far past) made accessible to just anyone. This is particularly a problem on sites like Ancestry because there are so many people who just take other people's trees and import them into their own databases, without even thinking about it. With Private trees you cannot do that.
I keep my One-name study tree "public" because that contains very distant branches, and because I want to get in touch with as many people of the name as possible. However I keep my main tree private just to be on the safe side. People who have a genuine interest can contact me then.
Alexander
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I used to have my trees public until I got thoroughly fed up with those people who just like to copy all your photo's and documents but will not answer any messages or share anything in return.
For example someone copied all the photo's of my mother. As I'm an only child I wanted to know how they could be connected. As their tree was priavte and also set not to show up in the indexes I sent a message but never received a reply.
I wasn't too comfortable with the idea my mum's pictures were on someone elses tree who won't communicate with me so after that my tree went private.
Now having it private forces anyone genuine to contact me and hopefully puts off the time wasters.
Its not that I'm mean....I'm more than happy to share, but as far as I'm concerned its my tree, my work so I wish to retain some control over it.
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I can see a good reason now perhaps why some of the Trees I come across,are shall we say a little suspect.lol
I follow your reasoning.One thing I would be very wary about is giving anyone "editing rights".
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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My tree on Ancestry is Private and all people who can view are Guests.
Would never allow anyone to edit any part of my tree which has taken hours and a fair bit of money to get the accuracy I have.
On GR I have given people permission to view my tree only to find ALL my family suddenly on anothers tree even those not related. For instance my Irish Family would not need to appear in the tree of a distant relative of my English Tree. My Mum was Irish so my fathers G/g/g/grandparents would have no connection to her whatsoever.
After this happened a couple of times, I now no longer give anyone access to my tree unless they ask me specific questions about a specific ancestor and then it will take a few back and fro messages for me to ascertain the connection is right.
There are far too many people out there who think this is a cheap hobby and look to use others hard work to build up their trees. I am more than happy to share my research and copy any BMD's I have for most people but not for the 'tree scrumpers' or those who wish to have as big a tree as possible.
I am now going to sound very mean: You only have to look to see how many people repeatedly ask for look-ups on here and GR. I am more than happy to help with 'free' look-ups for people but there are some who have been doing it for years at others expense. I currently pay out £100.00+ pa for Ancestry and around £80.00 for FindMyPast (both full for my uses within the UK). Now I know this is a lot of money but this is my hobby and all hobbies come at a cost. Even when I first started I realised that I would need to take out membership to at least 1 genealogy site and went originally for Ancestry (then succumbed to FindMyPast). But there are some out there who do not even go for the free trials and then use that time constructively.
SORRY TO RANT - I am a pensioner on a limited income, but I budget to find this money. :D
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there are some who have been doing it for years at others' expense. there are some out there who do not even go for the free trials and then use that time constructively. I am a pensioner on a limited income, but I budget to find this money. :D
Same here, Plummiegirl, if I can, I help with some of the 'less knowledgeable' questionsI do, but not being an expert, these are few and far between, and Rootschatters usually beat me to it !! However, I must say that this site has taught me more than I could ever have imagined, BIG THANK YOU ROOTSCHAT!
giraffe
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There are far too many people out there who think this is a cheap hobby and look to use others hard work to build up their trees. I am more than happy to share my research and copy any BMD's I have for most people but not for the 'tree scrumpers' or those who wish to have as big a tree as possible.
. :D
I once had two people in the same week copy all that they could from different parts of my tree. When I totalled up the value of the certificates and other documents they had copied I was horrified as it ran in to several hundred pounds. (Turned my tree private since then)
I was also very disappointed when my contact messages were ignored because for one part of my tree it was the first time in six years I had found anyone else researching that family.
Luckily since then I have found another contact who has just started her tree and she is more than happy to work with me and swap and exchange. Between us we are well on our way to solving a family mystery which I very much doubt the other person will manage to do on their own.....so its their loss as far as I'm concerned
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I have had problems with someone putting my husband and his brother on a public family tree,both still living. I requested that he removed them so he promptly made it a private tree,I contacted Ancesters and after several e-mails they said they would ask him to remove them, but it was very reluctant, but I have no means of checking if this has been done and appears I can o nothing if not.
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There are far too many people out there who think this is a cheap hobby and look to use others hard work to build up their trees. I am more than happy to share my research and copy any BMD's I have for most people but not for the 'tree scrumpers' or those who wish to have as big a tree as possible.
. :D
I once had two people in the same week copy all that they could from different parts of my tree. When I totalled up the value of the certificates and other documents they had copied I was horrified as it ran in to several hundred pounds. (Turned my tree private since then)
I was also very disappointed when my contact messages were ignored because for one part of my tree it was the first time in six years I had found anyone else researching that family.
Luckily since then I have found another contact who has just started her tree and she is more than happy to work with me and swap and exchange. Between us we are well on our way to solving a family mystery which I very much doubt the other person will manage to do on their own.....so its their loss as far as I'm concerned
I got a lot of certificates over a 4 year period, and I didn't care about other people using them, because I realised that not everyone is as fortunate as me. Now that my income has been radically affected by ill-health, my opinion hasn't changed. For me, this hobby is about sharing.
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I used to totally agree with you Nick, but as of today have changed tack and now am of the same opinion as mofid42.
A person with 800 names on his/her tree has just taken multiple certs and even some photos from my tree over the past few days. Having contacted them to ask where the connection is, and been invited to be a guest to their "private" tree, I have now realised that this person (now describing themselves as a newbie - and admitting their tree is made up of other people's trees) - has not only taken advantage of other people's hard work, but has made a major mistake, having inserted my ancestor and descendants into her branch of the same surname... but in fact there is no genealogical connection at all - totally different family!! Have messaged to advise of this major mistake and await the outcome. This is doubly upsetting as some of the photos taken were sent to me by other ancestr... members who like me are into "sharing" in the true sense - not just "taking" !!!
Now about to decide to make my tree private - unless this person does a return message reassuring me that they will delete the total mistaken branch from their tree. I await with bated breath!
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I have a public tree on ancestry, although not complete and up to date. My main tree is on tribalpages and holds a lot more information, it is private and I only allow guest access to people who seem to be serious researchers. Although we all are capable of misjudging people :'( :-[ ::)
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There are far too many people out there who think this is a cheap hobby and look to use others hard work to build up their trees. I am more than happy to share my research and copy any BMD's I have for most people but not for the 'tree scrumpers' or those who wish to have as big a tree as possible.
. :D
I so agree with Plummiergirl.
I also have memberships to four genealogy sites and it does get tiresome when people ask you for help,then copy your tree,and then never reply to your emails.I think the genealogy sites should do something about this.I did email two of these sites to complain but hey ho got nothing back >:(
You can easily tell who these people are by looking at their trees.One minute they have a limited amount of relations thenafter contacting "you" their tree has suddenly grown!!
I once found four trees on Ancestry that all had the wrong information regarding a marriage.Now if they had bothered to check themselves rather than copy they would have known it was wrong! ::)
I now like someone else said email back and forth and when satisfied will share information.Most genuine people with offer an email address that is not connected to the site.Those looking to "copy" will only communicate through the site.
Sonia
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I agree also I made mine private after people copying family pictures which there were no connection at all .Some people just copy things without checking if they are the right family, I have had several people doing this when I contact them they just ignore you but keep your photo's I dont seem to get through to them they have the wrong family
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If you worry about the mistakes made on other people's trees, then you'll never have enough time to work on your own tree ! :)
I must admit that I was quite upset recently when one Ancestry member 'lifted' my g.g. grandparents to put in his tree - and changed their places of birth to make them fit ! I did contact him via Ancestry to tell him that my g.g. grandmother was born near Buntingford, Hertfordshire, not Dartford, Kent, and he deleted her from his tree. However, my g.g. grandfather still remains. But I have to ask the question.... he's changed my g.g. grandfather's place of birth, he's got many of the children's names wrong.... are we still talking about the same person now ?
The only thing that troubles me about this sort of thing is that is propagates falsehoods, because others copy in blind faith too.
However, we must remember the old saying......
"The person responsible for making sure that the data you insert into your tree is correct is YOU !"
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I quite agree especially when you have spent a lot of money and time and you know that you have the right family !!! ( Think before you Leap )
:)
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I agree with Nick29 regarding certificates.I share once contact has been made and the other user and i are certain we have the same family.
By not sharing it makes genealogy a very lonely hobby.I have made some wonderful new Friends via sharing information.
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Hi,
I am sure there will be a lot who disagree with me but if I have a Tree on a site like Ancestry and it is public then I am not surprised if things are copied. Like many others, however, I am sometimes very surprised by what appear to be serial copiers!!! Most odd.
I keep my tree public and make sure I don't mind anything on their being known. The reason I keep it public is because if no one can see my tree then no one will contact me - it is as simple as that. I cannot at the moment afford a membership so I can't contact anyone myself.
Sue
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Hi,
I am sure there will be a lot who disagree with me but if I have a Tree on a site like Ancestry and it is public then I am not surprised if things are copied. Like many others, however, I am sometimes very surprised by what appear to be serial copiers!!! Most odd.
I keep my tree public and make sure I don't mind anything on their being known. The reason I keep it public is because if no one can see my tree then no one will contact me - it is as simple as that. I cannot at the moment afford a membership so I can't contact anyone myself.
Sue
If you use Mundia[beta] which at the moment is free, you can contact them.
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I have a private tree on ancestry it only contains information that any ancestry member can find from the website. so if they want to confirm anything they are able to locate the information themselves. I gladly share family documents and photos with those who contact me and are connected to me once i have verified the connection. This way I control who sees what not ancestry.
I have seen one tree that has two people on their tree from different branches both are in my tree the person hasn't made the connection that this couple are married if they were carrying out a proper line of research they would have come across this important fact.
If I locate a photo I always contact the tree owner and ask if i may take a copy for my private tree which is on my PC.
Regards panda
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Hi Youngtug,
I am curious - what is Mundia (beta) - I have never heard of it?
Can you explain to someone who is fairly computer illiterate?
Sue
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Mundia is actually owned and run by Ancestry. Try Googling for it. I think it's a way of encouraging people to subscribe to the Ancestry site.
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Mundia is part of Ancestry. It is a site that contains all the trees that are on any of their normal sites but there are no records. Anyone can use it, you do not need to be subscribed to Ancestry.
According to their blurb if your tree is private on Ancestry it is also private on Mundia but if your tree is public then it can be seen by anyone using the Mundia site including all your photos and documents attached to your tree.
I belive people can contact you via the Mundia site
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Back to the sharing/taking debate I see.
Last week I received a message from someone who had noticed that I had a photo attached to 3 people in my private tree. She had the same family so asked if she could see it. These people were most definitely her direct line so I sent her a copy by email rather than open my tree.
I 'SHARED' that photo.
On the other hand, someone who comes across a jolly little photo and decides that it will be a nice addition to their collection, without first confirming that the person it is attached to is actually a family connection, is TAKING. What on earth is wrong with a 'please may I?' ???
Photos or personally purchased certificates are, in my opinion, not the in the same category as public records available by subscribing to sites such as A and FindMyPast.
Putting my soapbox away now. ;)
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Quote from msr ...Photos or personally purchased certificates are, in my opinion, not the in the same category as public records available by subscribing to sites such as A and FindMyPast.
Don't know why but the quote thingy didn't work so have ammended my post
I heartily agree with you.
Most of us are happy to SHARE, its those that TAKE without asking first that annoy everyone.
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Hi Youngtug,
I am curious - what is Mundia (beta) - I have never heard of it?
Can you explain to someone who is fairly computer illiterate?
Sue
It's free, at the moment. You can put your tree on it or link to your ancestry tree and use the same log in. You CAN contact other tree owners and they can reply. http://www.mundia.com/gb/
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This debate has taken place at least once a month since I've been frequenting Roots Chat.
It's not at all straightforward...... re photos, most do not have copyright because they were taken so long ago, and often by persons unknown. When someone gives you a photo, or it is handed down to you, there is no inferred copyright. When it comes to certificates, the copyright for these is held by the Crown, and they don't have any objection to not-for-profit reproduction.
Trees are not copyright, although any notes or stories that you add will be, if they are your own work. You can't copyright data which is in the public domain.
The bottom line is that if you don't want stuff copied, then don't put it on the internet.
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I lean heavily towards Nick's position.
I was sent a photo about three years ago now of my Greatx2-Grandfather.Within a month of it appearing on my Tree on Ancestry it was on about forty other Trees.
I'm not complaining,I'm delighted.
Whilst we may think we may have worked hard to gain info about our rellies,we don't own the info!Its available to all by whatever means they come by it!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I have several trees on Ancestry,most of these are private and are small pieces of information I have gathered about a family I think belongs on my tree usually pre census,but I haven't verified the connection.I also have a private tree which has family photos on .My main tree is public and although I make every effort to make sure it is accurate,I know mistakes creep in and I know huge pieces of it are copied complete with my spelling mistakes,I have given up worrying about people who copy wholesale, I have enjoyed finding the information and if someone wants to graft my English labourers onto their strange trees that's their problem not mine.
Liz
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I had a public tree on Ancestry _ I didn't mind at all if someone looked at it, and used it as a guide for their own research. What I didn't like was when someone just copied the information directly without finding their own sources to back it up. Now it's a private one.
This is close to my heart - due to a person copying and mistranscribing information from a relative several years ago, my grandfather is listed on the IGI as having died in the 1930's (and I've seen several trees with this on it). However, he is a very healthy 100 years old! He got MARRIED in the 30's, then had 10 kids!
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Like so many of you, I changed my tree to private.
I delight in sharing information, and am a firm believer that if you give help you will receive it back.
I changed my mind about a public tree though, for the same reasons as many of you - other members taking my information, linking it to the wrong people, and then sharing it with umpteen other members.
The photos that have been passed down through my family are treasures, not to be hoarded and kept secret, but also, not to be used with no thought or care, which to me shows a complete lack of respect.
As an example: my great grandfather was 'lifted' from my tree and added to a completely different family, along with his photos, where the borrower MARRIED HIM TO AN UNKNOWN 6 YEAR OLD. He was a deeply religious man, who would have found the very idea appalling. Despite the mass of documentation for him in my tree, which should have made them aware of their error, the person who did it ignored my requests to remove him. Then, he started popping up in the trees of other people I'd never heard of, along with our precious photos.
Infuriating, insulting to his memory, and unstoppable.
A note - even if you do change your tree to private, check it from time to time, as mine mysteriously made itself public again, though I had not touched the settings!
Caroline.
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Well, the situation can have its funny side too :)
My friend was entering the details of one of his ancestors whose surname was Behr. On a whim, he put the parents down as 'Mummy Behr' and 'Daddy Behr'.
He was shocked and amused when a few months later he found Mummy & Daddy Behr adopted into half-a-dozen family trees ;D
(I've told this story a few times before - I repeated it for newcomers to the forum).
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I can identify with your "Behr" episode Nick (it also made me laugh).
Having great difficulty with a portion of my main Tree, I started a new Tree just to work out the portion that was causing difficulty and tried different people in different positions in the family and some people I had no proof for whatsoever. I thought I had made it private so as not to cause others confusion but had actually not done so - believe it or not it has been copied ++
Sue
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There are some great Trees you come across on Ancestry.I was looking at one the other day that gave four different possible entries for an individual for each of the Census years!
I suppose its like making an each way bet.lol
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I've come across some real corkers.
One I spotted a few weeks ago had a couple whose daughter was born nearly two hundred years after they had died and the daughter in her turn marrying almost one hundred years before she was born!
Another I found through a shaking leaf hint had my 3 x Gt grandparents. Everything seemed to check out, BMD and census entries all tallied for them being born, raised, married and dying in Surrey. But it all went awry when I noticed they were attached to only one child whose surname was totally different from theirs. This child according to the tree was born, raised, married and had children all in Manchester, and who then mysteriously went on to die in Manchester Jamaica.
Couldn't understand why the tree owner had apparently randomly added my 3 x Gt grandparents to their tree until I did a search and discovered they did have a family with the same surname as my ancestors on their tree but again they were all from Manchester. I can only assume they arrived at this ridiculous error via one of A* notoriously unreliable hints.....but surely the Surrey/ Manchester discrepancy should have given them a clue that things weren't quite right!!
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I think people sometimes develop what I call "My dad's crossword puzzle syndrome" :)
My dad used to love doing crossword puzzles, but he wasn't terribly good at them, and he didn't have much patience. So, in the early stages he would get the majority of the answers right, but as he got towards completion he would tend to make up words that fitted, even if the words didn't actually exist ! Of course, the right words didn't fit because he'd made mistakes on some of the other earlier answers.
I think this also goes on in genealogy. People start off OK, working from the certificates that they may well have laying around the house (like parents' marriage and/or death certificates), and if they have chosen to make a small investment, they may also get some more information from the censuses. By then they will have told a lot of friends and family about their genealogical success. Then, they hit a brick wall or other problem. Experienced researchers at this point would back-track to see if a mistake had crept in, but they plough on regardless. Faced with a brick wall, and a host of friends and relatives asking about their progress, they do what my dear old dad did - they fudge the facts, just to find people who fit.
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I think people sometimes develop what I call "My dad's crossword puzzle syndrome" :)
My dad used to love doing crossword puzzles, but he wasn't terribly good at them, and he didn't have much patience. So, in the early stages he would get the majority of the answers right, but as he got towards completion he would tend to make up words that fitted, even if the words didn't actually exist ! Of course, the right words didn't fit because he'd made mistakes on some of the other earlier answers
;D ;D This made me laugh so much because my Nan does it!!!
We buy her puzzle books and when she has finished with them before recycling them we take a sneaky look - it brightens up the dullest of days!!
My tree has always been set to private, I love it if I can help out in anyway, but as everyone has said,it is a hobby, and when you tot up expenses like subscriptions, certificates,petrol costs,archive printing costs, it does mount up. I can fully understand the frustration.
bagpuss :)
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Hi Guys My tree with ancestry is public - I did have it private -
I always ask someone if I can have a copy of a picture or that if it is required and I have found many family members contacting me through it as well.. I did have a couple of times when I didnt know how to use the SHARE button - I do now... and it always shows where the pictures or documents originates from..
I am considering making it private - because I have found that I am the only one whom has gone way way back, through genuine hard research... and some have copied as their own and that makes me sad.. But the contacts that have come to me or I can go to is amazing, so where do you draw the line.. learn and share? or be alone? Sharing I have found is a boon - but I wish I could make 'my work' my own - or shown to be 'my own' if you understand me? I have no qualms with sharing never have - but to 'take' someones work - that you didnt want to know in the 1st place, until proven, I think is a but cat! I wish you could lock it somehow...or mark it someway- but there we go.. research is thus I suppose... ::)
sj