RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: colin12 on Wednesday 18 January 12 20:34 GMT (UK)
-
Hi Everyone,
Trying to find any more info about the above. He was born 2.2.1905 in Weymouth, Dorset. Death shown as : Apr Qtr Leeds 1952 2c 320. This from the GRO but not shown on Yorks BMDs. Trying to find anything more, where he lived etc. Any adice or info greatly appreciated.
Colin
-
Hello and welcome to RootsChat
You may already have this
Baptism
Weymouth Holy Trinity
Charles William Henry Hill
born 2 Feb 1905
baptised 23 Jun 1905
Parents Charles William & Ellen Hill
Address : 7 Pansy Terrace
Father's occupation Shipwright
baptised by L. B. Welden D.D.
Suz
-
His marriage cert (1930) should give another address - and his death cert
Suz
-
Hi Sue, have been with Rootrchat for many years, one of the best sites on line. Thanks for your info,had some of it but not all, now trying to investigate the end of his life.
Cheers
Colin
-
Wow! Married that is definitely a first, will have to check it out.
Colin
-
Hi Sue, eventually received the marriage certificate for C W H Hill, but alas not the right man, so back to the drawing board, thanks for your help.
Colin
-
Hello,
I've been investigating the family history of my maternal grandfather, Charles W.H. Hill who worked as a fireman in the Merchant Navy - unfortunately, we know very little about him- we believe that he died quite soon after my mum was born.
Suzard- one of your posts has brought up some coincidences, in terms of the information I have. Any leads/ advice would be greatly appreciated. I have outlined the information I have below, Colin12, I'm not sure if this overlaps? I have his wedding certificate (from 1941) and details from my mum's birth certificate.
Name - Charles W.H. Hill
Worked as a fireman for the Merchant Navy, father also called Charles Hill and worked as a shipwright. This is recorded on his wedding certificate.
Married 1941, Cork to Eileen Murphy. His daughter (my mum) is also called Ellen.
His recorded address at the time of marriage was St.Martin's, Guernsey.
I thought I had found a record for him through the National Archives Merchant Navy records- this records his year of birth as 1903.
I would love to find further information and leads for my mum, who knows very little about him. Finding his wedding certificate has very much sparked a more comprehensive search.
Natasha
-
Hello and welcome to RootsChat
Do you have/require information about his parents and siblings??
Suz
-
Hi Suz,
Many thanks for your reply. I was wondering what kind of record reports his father as shipwright? I couldn't see this on a baptism index. For me, this is the significant link as it directly corresponds with his wedding certificate.
Any information / links / advice in terms of his background ( he must have been a fireman in the merchant navy for over a decade as this is recorded on his wedding certificate and birth certificate for his daughter, ten years apart) would be very much appreciated.
I'm also looking for any links to death records. I know that he was living in the PerryBarr district of Birmingham in 1951.
My mum was informally adopted by her aunt and uncle in Cork, hence a lack of information.
Family would also be appreciated - I've managed to locate them on the 1911 census, if this is the correct Charles W. H. Hill.
Thank you very much - your original reply to Colin seems to include a number of coincidences in terms of what I know.
Best wishes,
Natasha
-
it looks like his father was Charles William Hill
on Parish records his (and his sister's) father was named as Charles William Hill
I posted Charles William Henry's baptism previously
this looks like the baptism of one of his sisters
Parish records
Holy Trinity Weymouth
Ivy Ellen Hill
born 9 Nov 1903
baptism 8 Jan 1904
parents Charles William & Ellen
address 7 Pansy Terrace
Father's occ L Shipwright R.N.
it looks like Ivy Ellen possibly married Edwin G Evans Jun qtr 1928 Portsmouth 2b 1303
and her death reg?
Ivy Ellen Evans born 9 Nov 1903
died Aug 2001
S E Hampshire
You could look on the 1939 register for whereabouts of Charles William Henry -I assume he was still alive then?
You can look at the register free but need to purchase credits to view further information
Is there a Florrie in your family???
Suz
-
I'm also looking for any links to death records. I know that he was living in the PerryBarr district of Birmingham in 1951.
.
Best wishes,
Natasha
I cannot find him in Perry Barr area in 1951 -how certain are you of this information and who was living with him?
1950 Perry barr electoaral roll shows a few Charles W Hill but cannot find Charles W h Hill
there is Charles William Hill and Alice A Hill living at 153 Chingford Rd Perry barr
and
Charles W Hill & Margaret L M Hill at 26 Birkenshaw Rd
Suz
-
Thank you very much.
Do you know what the initials around shipwright stand for? R , LN?
From my mum's birth certificate he was living with his wife, Eileen Hill previously Murphy in Farnham Road, Birmingham. This was towards the end of '51. I haven't been able to locate him on anything, my guess was he was probably at sea as part of the Merchant Navy?
I don't believe that he was previously married prior to his wedding in Cork in 1941- he is recorded as a bachelor and his age is not given, unfortunately. Sadly, the only things we know about him are from the wedding and birth certificate (daughter's).
Best wishes,
Natasha
-
Thank you very much.
Do you know what the initials around shipwright stand for? R , LN?
Best wishes,
Natasha
the occupation on baptism reads " L (looks like L) Shipwright R.N.
I don't know what L stands for -but assume RN is Royal Navy?
Suz
-
Thank you very much- ici would be grateful if there are any other sites or resources you would recommend, in order to find out more about him. Thanks very much for the information and advice given so far.
-
Hi Everyone,
Trying to find any more info about the above. He was born 2.2.1905 in Weymouth, Dorset. Death shown as : Apr Qtr Leeds 1952 2c 320. This from the GRO but not shown on Yorks BMDs. Trying to find anything more, where he lived etc. Any adice or info greatly appreciated.
Colin
I don't think this is the death reg of "your" Charles William Henry Hill - his age on death is given as 49 giving him an approx y.o.b. as 1903 - yourswas born 1905
There is a birth reg FreeBMD
Charles William H Hill Jun qtr 1903 Knaresborough
I think this is the Charles WH who died 1952 Leeds
there is also
Probate
Charles William Henry Hill of 38 St Ives Mount Armley leeds died 20 Jun 1952 Probate London to Florrie Hill widow Effects 1592 6 4
on the free register 1939 the only Charles William Henry Hill I could find was with Florriwe Hill and gave y.o.b. as 1903
Suz
-
Hello,
I thought I had found a record for him through the National Archives Merchant Navy records- this records his year of birth as 1903.
Natasha
I wonder if these records are for the "other" Charles William Henry Hill who was b 1903??
Suz
-
Thank you, Suz. I agree, this definitely seems to be another Charles WH Hill, who resided in Yorkshire. I believe his father was George Hill so not a relation.
The "Weymouth" Charles, going by the details you've given me, does seem to be the correct one as father's name and occupation match as well as the possibility of naming his daughter after his mother. Any death records are proving very frustrating to find.
-
I wonder if he maybe died at sea??
Suz
-
I'm definitely going to investigate the possibility of that. Hopefully, it all the "pieces of the puzzle" will come together soon.
Best wishes,
Natasha
-
Searched Merchant Navy records yesterday for Charles William Henry Hill. The only possible I can find is the Weymouth man born in 1903.
Merchant seamen regularly lied about there age, usually to attract a higher rate of pay or to cover up their previous misdemeanors which would have detrimental effect on their future employment prospects.
I note from his card CR1, stamped at Newcastle in October 1941 is a first issue. In other words for whatever reason he is not in possession of a discharge book.
For the purpose of elimination, If nothing else, you should look at the logbook and crew agreement, of SOMERSET COAST official number 143620 for the period including October 1941. This should tell you his last known address, his previous ship? and his next of kin.
You would need to visit the National Archive, Kew to view.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11043773
search via official number
You also have to consider that your man lead a double life and the Merchant Navy story was a convenient way of covering his tracks. Would not be the first time.
-
Hi Natasha,
There are not many C W H Hill around, however, the one I have is from the Hill family, born 2 Feb 1905 in Weymouth, Father Charles William Hill and mother Ellen Hill the father was a ships carpenter.
He does have two neices that live in Hampshire who knew him. Unfortuneately I never found his death record. Could this be you 'man'?
Any other help please contact me
Regards
Colin
-
Dear seaweed and Colin,
Thank you very much, I will check this link.
On his wedding certificate (May 1941), he is recorded as being a fireman and the same occupation ( this time specifying the Merchant Navy) is written on his daughter's birth certificate in November 1951. It will be interesting to see if his wife, Eileen Hill, is his next of kin.
We know very little about him and it is possible that there are other things we haven't considered. As his father was a shipwright, it is not surprising he would have followed him into a similar line of work. From what I've read, the job of a fireman was extremely tough and it appears that he was doing this for well over ten years. Does the record from 1941 (the link you've kindly given me) relate to WW2 involvement?
Weymouth Charles has a birth date of 2nd Feb on 1905 in terms of birth index. The exact same name for the Merchant Navy in the National Archives is also 2nd Feb, but 1903 and this would be a remarkable coincidence if it is not the same person.
Colin- I think that Weymouth Charles may be the one as father's name, occupation are the same as well as the shared name of Ellen, mentioned previously. It would be great to confirm this. Like you, I cannot find any death records. My mum is not sure if she died when she was a baby (around 1952) or later on as she has a very vague memory of someone telling her he had died, possibly at some point in the late fifties.
I have a copy of his wedding certificate and I'm happy to attach this if it helps?
I wonder if his nieces could confirm this is him, with regards to his marriage in Cork,1941?
Best wishes,
Natasha
-
Does the record from 1941 (the link you've kindly given me) relate to WW2 involvement?
Yes but I can find no other wartime records for him. No medal entitlement, no seamans pouch. Nothing.
It may well be that his seamans pouch has been lost or destroyed and he declined his wartime medals, many did.
The only course I can see open is his form CRS (Continuous Record of Service)10 Which will tell you what vessels he served on together with dates and places of engagement and discharge. Again you would need to visit TNA Kew to view.
These records are stored alphabetically in blocks of sixty names. If the one concerning CWHH is anywhere it could be in one of two references.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10989009
or
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10990684
You will need his Discharge A number. R231393.
-
Thank you very much- I will look this up, in the National Archives.
In terms of working as a fireman for the Merchant Navy (before and after WW2), are there any other ways I can find records of his service there? Or it seems as though they may not exist? From what you've said, the seaman's pouch would normally be the record of this.
It is strange to not have any record of 10+ years (possible) service.
Best wishes,
Natasha
-
Yes if a man served under the Fourth Register of Merchant Seamen effectively 1918-1941 and then served under the Fifth Register of Merchant Seaman 1941-1972 his records pre 1941 would be contained in his seaman's pouch. Many seamans pouch's some 95000 were destroyed in the mid 20th century.
So the only way to find his pre 1941 sea service is to back track via Logbooks and Crew Agreements. Crew agreements should give the name or official number of his previous ship. This is easier said than done as the majority of Crew agreements pre 1939 are stored in Newfoundland. some at Kew and the remainder, for years ending in "5" at NMM Greenwich.
-
Many thanks, what a shame so many were destroyed.
I will investigate the National Archives link ASAP.
Best wishes,
Natasha
-
Dear seaweed,
Would you mind directing me towards the site where you have found his C1 card?
Best wishes,
Natasha
-
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/
Search under Education and work. Obviously take the Merchant Navy option.
-
Apologies, I have typed this in previously, through these records and just now and am only getting a CR2 record from 1921. This is by searching Charles W.H. Hill and Charles William Henry Hill.
-
Many thanks for all of your help- I managed to see the various documents at the National Archives today and he is indeed my grandfather, as he has the same address as my grandmother at the time. Unfortunately, no photos.