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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: soapy1 on Sunday 15 January 12 23:07 GMT (UK)
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I've hit a brick wall . My grt grandmother was called Elizabeth Gray Russell (1857-1930). Her father was Daniel Gray Russell, who died Jan 1904 in Glenmavis. Per the death certificate he was illegitimate. His mother was Elizabeth Russell & father William Gray. I can't find details of his birth anywhere. Working back the dates on the death certificate, i expect date of birth round about 1825 ( 79 years of age when he died). I can't even find much by way of the census as it's too early.I thought that I might have found an 1841 entry for mother & son which would have helped
Daniel Gray Russell was married to Isabella Smith Pew around 1852.
I'd really appreciate any help or at least pointers in the right direction
I tried to find if his parents evetually married, but can't find anything.
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Is this the right 1861 entry - as birthyear is later than stated
79 High St New Monkland
Daniel Russell 29 b New Monkland - ironstone miner
Isabella 26 b Ireland
Thomas 8 b Airdrie
Elizabeth 4 ditto
New Monkland ED 9 Page16 Line 18
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Variation in name - these are submitted IGI entries
Daniel Russell Gray Birth: 07 APR 1829 Burnhead, New Monkland
Father: William Gray Mother: Elizabeth Russell
DANIEL GRAY OR RUSSELL Birth: 07 APR 1829 Christening: 21 JUN 1829 New Monkland Father: WILLIAM GRAY Mother: ELIZABETH RUSSELL
Somebody else is researching the same family
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1841 all born Lanarkshire
Willm Gray 30
Elizabeth Gray 25
Daniel Gray 9
William Gray 5
Janet Gray 3
Address: Carfin Collersy
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1841 all born Lanarkshire
Willm Gray 30
Elizabeth Gray 25
Daniel Gray 9
William Gray 5
Janet Gray 3
Address: Carfin Collersy
I wonder if this one looks more likely Sancti, especially since he called his first son Thomas.
1841 Blackbirdhaw, New Monkland -
Thomas Russell 60
Helen Russell 60
William Russell 20
Alexander Picken 20
Daniel Gray 9
Lots of submissions at the IGI for this family - Thomas Russell and Helen Murray including an Elizabeth born 1804.
Interesting that 3 of Daniel's children (including one in 1855) were born as Gray.
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Wow, everyone..thanks for your replies!!
Variation in name - these are submitted IGI entries
Daniel Russell Gray Birth: 07 APR 1829 Burnhead, New Monkland
Father: William Gray Mother: Elizabeth Russell
DANIEL GRAY OR RUSSELL Birth: 07 APR 1829 Christening: 21 JUN 1829 New Monkland Father: WILLIAM GRAY Mother: ELIZABETH RUSSELL
Somebody else is researching the same family
CaroleW...This looks like Daniel G Russell's birth. Per his death cert he was illegitimate, and I think I read that sometimes in those days they would often change their surname, though per the death cert, he was 79 in 1904, so I'd expect DOB around 1825, but maybe the death cert wasn't reliable anyway
You did well, as I tried IGI , but I'm clearly not as good at this yet as I could be
I couldn't find Daniel, but I found both parents at Burnead ...is that modern Uddingston?
The 1861 entry looks like the one for Daniel & his wife Isabella S Pew. I have their details as a family. I think they were married 1852 ( surname entered as Pue & his surname is shown as Gray).
Sancti...good detective work from you too.
Looks like maybe William did in fact marry Elizabeth and they went on to have 2 further children, William & Janet, but I've found it difficult to find marriage details this far back.
My mother's grandmother was Daniel's daughter Elizabeth Gray Russell. The family story handed down was that she originally came from Chapelhall, and I've been trying to verify that ages.
Maybe if the family stayed at Carfin Colliery, that would be around the Chapelhall area, where funnily enough I now stay
Interchanging the surnames Gray & Russell is very very confusing !!
Even Daniel's death certificate is confusing. The father and mother's surname is recorded as Russell !! Father's name is recorded as William Gray Russell. Would the family did that to spare some blushes? He is however recorded as illegitimate. I have seen some death certificates where the parents names are simply wrongly recorded !!
Cookies4.....your theory looks possible, but wonder if those are the maternal grandparents ? I don't know their names at all
though!!
Does anyone know where Blackbirdhaw was?
I've never heard of that!
once again, a big thanks to you all
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1851
Thomas Simpson 23
Janet Simpson 25
Jean Simpson 3
Jeanet Simpson 1
John Tullock 15
Daniel Russell 21 Lodger born New Monkland occ Coal Miner
Address: Bartonshill Old Monkland
Elisabeth Pew 51
Isabella Pew daur 19 born Ireland occ Mill worker
Thomas Pew son 16 born Ireland Occupation: Drawer C
Address: 73 High St Airdrie
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1841
Thomas Pew 45
Robert Pew 20
Eliza Pew 16
Martha Pew 13
Agnes Pew 11
Isabella Pew 8 born: Ireland
Thomas Pew 5
Eliza Pew 40
John Mcconnel 24
Address North Street Airdrie
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Thanks Sancti....dob is approx right for the 1851 Census.
The 1852 marriage I found in SP is under the name Daniel Gray & once you see it, the name could be recorded as Isabella Pew, and not Pue as is transcribed.
According to information i found Elizabeth Pew's husband Thomas died around 1850/51.
Those look like the same records i thought were mine, based on the certificates i found
Thanks Sancti
Do you think it's likely therefore that William Gray did in fact marry Eliz Russell at some point later on?
Just seen your next post ...again looks like them.
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The record found by Cookies4 looks more likely as the family I posted are together in 1851 in Cambusnethan with Daniels birthplace as Hamilton
Perhaps his mother died young and that was why he was with grandparents
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Sancti,
I tried SP searching both before and after 1855. None with a surname Gray, which is the reason I wondered if they married at all
I found one candidate before 1855, from Carluke.
Again I searched for her under Eliz Russell after 1855, and still can't find any under Gray.
Any suggestions, other than spending masses on SP ?
alternative might just be to save it til my next Edinburgh visit
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I'm pretty sure the Daniel Gray who was living with Thomas Russell and Helen Murray is your ancestor but how to go about proving they are his grandparents is another story.
If you look at FREECEN in 1841 the family are living a couple of households away from The Manse at New Monkland. A wee bit of searching finds it in Glenmavis.
There is an Elizabeth Russel (only one l) birth in 1804 indexed at SP to this couple right enough.
Not much help but thought I'd post anyway.
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cookies4, it is a lot of help actually.
I was brought up in Glenmavis, and my mum's grandmother, who is Daniel's daughter married a Samuel Beresford. Although her family seems to have stayed in Airdrie ( her mother died there), she moved to Glenmavis with her husband.
What confufes me is that my mum and aunt always say their granny Beresford came from Chapelhall, but I didn't find that in fo per death cert, so I assume it must have been as a child.
There is a Russell Street in Chapelhall, funnily enough, and a few Russells.
My mum always spoke to her cousin in Airdrie when I was young. His name was Daniel G Russell and he owned a wallpaper shop just down from Woolworths ( if anyone knows airdrie!!). I'm sure he stayed in Chapelhall.
Freecen? Never heard of that one, but will search for it & add it to my searching folder !!
I just don't know the name Helen Murray at all.
Any hint is always useful, no matter how small or vague, so thanks again
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Hi, I was searching for the Thom family of Burnhead, New Monkland and came across your posts. We also have Russell's from Coatbridge and Chapelhall (our Elizabeth Russell married John Gray) and think there may be a connection to other Russell's in the area. We have quite a bit of info that may be of interest to you at http://www.waughfamily.ca/Russell/ If anyone sees any connections or has any additional information I would appreciate hearing from you. Many of the inhabitants of Bothwell Parish joined the Mormon Church and emigrated to America in the 1840s and 50s. If you have any "missing persons" from this time period you may want to check at http://mormonmigration.lib.byu.edu/ to see if you can find them there. That's where we found Elizabeth and many other relatives from New Monkland and Bothwell from that era.
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Hi Waughboy
i'd a look at your website but I'm not so sure there's any connection. |There seem to have been more than one family of Russells in Chapelhall but not related.
There's a well known local lawyer of that name also from Chapelhall but no relation at all.
your site is however very interesting and informative.
You have really old maps there too, so very well done
Elspeth
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OPR Baptisms. (pre 1855)
Even although two parents may be named on a baptism, legitimacy is determined by the terminology used on the baptismal record.
"Lawful son/daughter of......" Is a child born inside a marriage
"Natural born son/daughter of....." Is a child born out of wedlock
I early time periods, co- habitation was accepted.
My own ancestors were "declared" as married in 1815 although no banns were previously announced.
The following Sunday, their 1st child was baptised and entered as "Lawful son of.....
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No banns were necessary for a couple to be officially married
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My own ancestors were "declared" as married in 1815 although no banns were previously announced
Marriage by declaration was perfectly legal until well into the 20th century, and was the only method of getting married without a minister to perform the ceremony. The critical point was that you declared in front of two witnesses that you were husband and wife. Whether this was done with the sanction of the kirk and a religious ceremony was irrelevant; in the eyes of the law it was equally valid.
Banns were (and still are) part of the religious procedure, obligatory in order to get a minister to conduct the ceremony.
Marriage by declaration before witnesses is why Scotland in general and Gretna Green in particular were popular with couples eloping from England. The blacksmith with his anvil was a nice touch, but not actually necessary to make the marriage legal.