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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: FindingAncestors on Friday 13 January 12 03:27 GMT (UK)
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Hello
Hoping someone can help -
At the Norfolk Parish Registers database at
Family search dot org - which Parish would I
search for HEIGHAM baptismal records? There doesn't
appear to be a HEIGHAM parish listed - although there is
one called Potter-Heigham --
FreeReg have some marriages from HEIGHAM,
and I have found the marriage of Griffin LAWS
to Sarah HEARN 1797 at Heigham, grooms
abode is given as Heigham - most of their
children's baptisms were registered at East Winch
but I have been unable so far to find a baptism for
Griffin LAWS (in any parish) his birth would be circa 1771, going by his burial details
at East Winch parish registers, his age at death in 1832 was given as 61 yrs -
I very much prefer to 'see' the original if possible so I can bypass the transcriptions
which understandably are not always correct - I am only able to search online as I live
in Australia -
Hoping some one can point me in right direction
Many thanks
FA
(Char)
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Hello Char,
The Family Search site does have the Archdeacons Transcripts for Heigham for the dates you're looking at - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jof/
I did have a quick look but couldn't find your Griffin Laws baptism - his marriage is on image no. 125.
Yorkslass
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Hello Char,
The Family Search site does have the Archdeacons Transcripts for Heigham for the dates you're looking at - http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jof/
I did have a quick look but couldn't find your Griffin Laws baptism - his marriage is on image no. 125.
Yorkslass
Thank you Yorklass !! I didn't look at the Archdeacon's Transcripts !! Perhaps I will find some else that relates - thank you again
FA
(Char)
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Hoping I'm not throwing a spanner in the works, but I'm also researching HEARNE (variant spellings) in Norfolk.
From census info, I am concentrating on North Repps (red herring, I think), Southrepps (looking promising, actually), and Thorpe Market. I believe they are about 20 miles from Heigham. There are plenty of HERN/HURN/HEARN/etc., in the area.
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Hi
I have probably come much too late to this, but St Bartholomews Heigham where Griffin Laws married is a parish just on the western side of Norwich. Griffin's birth can be found in Little Dunham, Norfolk, where he appears baptised on 24/7/1773 as Greffen, the illegitimate son of Greffen (Griffin) Hoy and Mary Lors (Lawes).
Grey Jet
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Here's another on FamilySearch showing him born c1785 East Winch,Norfolk. Married to Sarah Hearn born 1786, Heigham, Norfolk. they had 9 children.
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Hi
I have probably come much too late to this, but St Bartholomews Heigham where Griffin Laws married is a parish just on the western side of Norwich. Griffin's birth can be found in Little Dunham, Norfolk, where he appears baptised on 24/7/1773 as Greffen, the illegitimate son of Greffen (Griffin) Hoy and Mary Lors (Lawes).
Grey Jet
Hello Grey Jet ! Well well well - That's brilliant ! Thank you ! I wonder if it's himself ?? I guess I'll have to strain my eyes again with those transcripts lol -
Many thanks Grey Jet - I'll get onto that asap :)
FA
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EDWARD and ELIZABETH Hoy Baptised a Son Edward, 6 Nov 1772, St Margaret. Little Dunham.
Edward Jnr seems to have Bapt Children there also under HEY
(Griiffens Hoys 1773 Baptism is there also)
(Source FreeREG)
Edward Snr may be a Sibling of Griffen Hoy.
Also maybe possible Mother?
Baptisms same Church;
ROSE Miller 16 July 1784
PETER and PAUL Miller (Twins) 14 Oct 1785, buried 18/23 Oct.
MARY Miller 9 March 1788
ROSE Miller 2 Aug 1790
Parents JOHN/MARY Miller, Mother nee LAWS***
Fathers Occp Labourer
(FreeREG)
Cant find a Baptism but JOHN Miller age 10 was buried 7 July 1791, Son of JOHN/MARY
Notes;
John Miller Jnr' ' Late Mary Lawes* Spinster
(FreeREG)
Also as Griffen Hoy seems a unusual name this may be related;
Burial;
Griffin HOY
age: 36
birth: 1783
death: Suffolk, England
burial: 16 May 1819
(F/S.Org)
Marriage;
Griffin HOY to Ursula CRONSHEY, 18 May 1812, St. James, Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
(F/S.Org)
Children;
MARY ANN Hoy 16 April 1813
SARAH Hoy 30 June 1815
CHARLES DAVY CHRISTMAS Hoy 31 Dec 1817
(F/S.Org)
May be a Son of Griffen?.
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Looks very possible that Mary is Griffins Mother;
Marriage;
26 December 1774, St Margaret, Little Dunham
John MILLER to Mary LAWS
(FreeREG)
Other Children Little Dunham to JOHN/MAY Miller;
JOHN 16 Nov 1775 (must have died)
ROBERT 18 April 1779
JOHN 22 April 1781 (fits with burial 1791)
(FreeREG)
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Hello
The following may be of interest.
Just up the road from Little Dunham in the parish of Saham Toney a marriage was recorded for a Richard Hoy and Sarah Griffin in 1748. (Sarah Griffin was also baptised at Saham Toney.) So far I have only found four children for Richard Hoy and his wife Sarah and no Griffin Hoy but there is rather a big gap between the marriage and the baptism of first known child in 1755 and between the first child and the second child.
Sarah Hoy 1755 - died 1758
William Matthew Hoy 1761
Sarah Hoy 1763 - died 1763
Joseph Hoy 1766 - died 1769
Mary Laws/Lawes later Mary, wife of John Miller, had nine children after her marriage and was buried in Little Dunham on the 19th Oct. 1842 aged 93. It is possible an extra year or two may have accidently been added to her age over the years. Also at Saham Toney is a possible baptism for Mary, 7th June 1752 Mary daughter of John and Frances Lawes. John and Frances also had:
Philip Laws 1742
Philip Laws 1743
Elizabeth Laws 1745
Thomas Laws 1748 - died 1748
Thomas Lawes 1749
Robert, a son of John and Mary Miller, married Elizabeth Wright, a relative of mine.
:)
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From the parish registers of Mendlesham in Suffolk transcribed on Freereg:
Griffin Hoy buried 6th Nov 1781 (no more details)
Griffin Hoy baptised 27th Jan 1782, son of Richard Hoy and Sarah. It must a different Richard and Sarah to the one in the post above. This Griffin Hoy fits the one Trish found in Suffolk.
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A bit more information on the Saham Toney Richard Hoy and wife Sarah:
Sarah Hoy was buried 13th Jan 1773 at Saham Toney.
Richard Hoy witnessed a marriage of Robert Knopwood and Elizabeth Bacon 29 June 1772 and a marriage of Thomas Platfoot and Rose Hill 9th July 1773, both at S. T.
On the 23rd August 1773 Richard Hoy, widower, married Rose Hill, a widow at S. T.
Richard Hoy was buried 2nd April 1786 at S. T. Some details were also recorded. He was aged 60 years and son of Richard Hoy and Martha his wife. Martha was formerly Martha Cock.
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Thank you Poppy Rose and others. I had seen the Sarah Griffin and Richard Hoy entry and I also thought it likely this was the origin of the name for Griffin Hoy but couldn't be sure although no other option presents at the moment.
I was taking a different tack for Mary Lors (Miller) though, looking at Necton where Mary Lawes was baptised on 10/12/1752 to Clement and Rose Lawes.
However this family also seems connected to Saham Toney as Clement Lawes and Mary Wright married there on 2/2/1725.
Clement and Rose Lawes' children were Mary, Robert, Ann, John, Rose and Sarah.
Griffin Laws used the names John, Mary and Rose for his children, as well as Sarah, which fit this theory, but he also used Frances which would match the Saham Toney entry!
Griffin Laws' grand daughter, Lydia Laws, illegitimate child of his daughter Sarah Laws, married Abraham Cutler in West Winch in 1857 and migrated to Australia in 1868 having ten children. (my connection).
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The 1752 Mary, daughter of Clement Lawes and Rose, does look the better option and would explain the use of the name Rose among the Miller children.
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Hoping I'm not throwing a spanner in the works, but I'm also researching HEARNE (variant spellings) in Norfolk.
From census info, I am concentrating on North Repps (red herring, I think), Southrepps (looking promising, actually), and Thorpe Market. I believe they are about 20 miles from Heigham. There are plenty of HERN/HURN/HEARN/etc., in the area.
Hello sdbadger !
How did you go with your searching re HEARNE ? I'm wondering if my Sarah HEARN relates to your HEARNE family ?? It isn't a really common name, and to see it in the same county, and possible same areas, is a bit of coincidence, don't you think ?
We don't have much on Sarah except the record of her marriage and the births of her children, and her death - No baptism, no parents - so far - Unless someone out already has the info and hasn't bothered passing it on to other LAWS/HEARN researchers
I have recently done an Ancestry DNA test - I'm hoping others researching similar surnames have also participated and have their results on the site
Cheers :)
FA
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Hi - re Sarah Hearne
There was a Sarah Herne born in Pentney, Norfolk, to Richard Hurn and Mary Harper in 1772. Pentney is close to East Winch where Griffin laws and Sarah Hearne raised their family although records show this couple married in Heigham.
There is another connection to Pentney as Griffin Hoy, probably Griffin Laws father, was apprenticed there to a Cooper in 1771.
Regards
GJ
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my family codling, valentine, hammond married into Griffin law g
family. love to know more, jan
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To Finding Ancestors the best way to follow your male line ancestors is to test the Y chromosome with FamilyTreeDNA.com, but be warned, it can be a long slow waiting game. Autosomal DNA tests offered by most DTC (direct to consumer) companies can only test over a brief range of 3-5 birth events. YDNA reaches right back to Genetic Adam, but normally our interest is only since about 1400 when surnames gradually became commonplace.
Go to FamilyTreeDNA.com and start with the cheaper Y-37 STR test to see if you get any like name matches. If you do, you get into the ball park. However to get an unequivocal result, a potential terminal haplogroup and a good estimate of cousin distance, all the like name matches will need to do the more expensive Big-Y STR test. Paper trail links may be possible, but be prepared for a DNA link only. I have BigY 'cousins' in USA, Canada, Australia and NZ. The NZ matches are brother, 1c and 2c and I know then well; the Australian cousin is very close but no common ancestor yet; lack of Irish records makes a paper trail to the Noth Americans unlikely. Good luck.
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As EA69 and a RootsChat newby, a few days ago I asked a question about the wife of Charles LAWS. As a result of excellent work by people in this group, my focus has changed to Griffin and Sarah LAWS, Sarah being a much more likely prospect as my direct maternal line mitochondrial DNA ancestor.
My interest is therefore in establishing the BDM dates for Griffin and Sarah, the names of all their children and BDM dates if known. Can anyone confirm that a daughter Mary, about 1798-1882, married William MOORE and had a large family, and that one of their daughters, Elizabeth 1823-1914 (my GGgrandmother) married John BONE ?. John and Elizabeth emigrated to Armidale, NSW, Australia in about 1865 with a large family and their last few children were born there.
Some of these questions have been answered above, but as a very inexperienced genealogist, further help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Alan
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FamilySearch has two options for the parents of Mary Laws :1797-1890 (KGQ5-1MW)
Option 1 : Griffin LAWS 1771-1832 (LRIK-4LP) married Sarah HEARN : 1771-1830 (L29M-G6T) on 9 Jan 1797.
Griffin's parents were Thomas LAWS + Mary DAVEY. Sarah's were Richard HEARN(E) + Mary HARPER.
Option 2 : Thomas LAWS (MYS7-XR3) + Sarah unknown (MYS7-XR6)
I prefer the first option as it appeared elsewhere, but can anyone find other sources ?
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Marriage;
16 Jul 1822 St Andrew, Congham
William MOORE Singleman of Congham Parish
Mary LAWS Single woman of Snettisham Parish
Witnesses Francis MOORE/Elizabeth MOORE
Bapts of children Congham but no Elizabeth c 1823?
1851 we have;
William More 56 Head Farm Bailiff
Mary More 54 Wife born East Winch****
Francis More 24 Son
Sarah More 13 Daughter
Frances L More 11 Daughter
1841 Census
William Moore 45 Bailiff
Mary Moore 40
Francis Moore 15
Mary Moore 12
William Moore 10
James Moore 8
Maurice Moore 5
Sarah Moore 2
Frances Moore 6 mths
Elizabeths Marriage to John Bone 28 Mar 1846 Grimston has her father as William a Shepherd***
Witnesses Ellessa MOORE/William NEALS
Extra info his mark; she signed; Other Wits: Mary Ann Moore
ELIZABETH Moore bapt 18 May 1823 St Botolph, Grimston to WILLIAM/MARY
Father a Labourer or Shepherd
Siblings;
Ann 1815
Hannah 1817
Martha 1822
Francis 1825
Margaret 1826
John 1828
Ann 1830
Thomas 1833
1851 in East Rudham we have;
Mary Moore 42 Head Widow born St Magdalene image MAY BE 62****
John Moore 23 Son Ag Lab born Grimston
Thomas Moore 18 Son Ag Lab corn Grimston
John married 1852 and named his Father a William a Shepherd
Thomas in 1857 same info
1841 in East Rudham we have;
Mary Moore Nk
John Moore 10
James Moore 5 image is Thomas*
Anne Moore 10
Although Elizabeth Bones Oz Death Reg has her Parents as William/Mary does the actual cert have her as Mary Laws???
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The original poster has not been on here for a couple of years, they last posted on this thread in 2017.
Hopefully they will be notified that you have posted on here EA69 and reply to your posts :)
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This topic has been discussed recently on the Beginners Board. “Christopher Laws”
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=893978.0
Hope the link works
Looking at Ancestry trees (with cup of salt to hand) for this family - most have no baptism for time and place of Sarah HEARN's birth but some trees say her parents were Richard HEARN (1746-?) and Mary HARPER (1746-1777).
Possible baptism at Pentney NFK 17 May 1772. Sarah dar of Richard and Mary HERNE 17 May 1772.
Richard HERNE and Mary HARPER were married in Pentney 8 Apr 1766.
Pentney is not far south of where the family lived later.
Some of trees on Ancestry show family photos such as Elizabeth BONE nee MOORE who they say died 1914 aged about 90 if I remember right.
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Pleading guilty to posting on both boards plus private, but as a newby I’m still baffled on how to find my way around RootsChat; such as trying to flip between this board, BEGINNERS and similar PRIVATE posts. If I manage to find them all again it may be best to put them together in a text document ?.
I have learned some geography though and the LAWS, MOORE and BONE maybe HEARN(E) families lived in a circle of around 12k diameter centered on Grimston with Kings Lynn on the left edge. Other LAWS live round Norwich, and ‘never (seldom) the Twain shall meet’.
My maternal ancestors MOORE + BONE moved to Australia around 1856 (children born in Norfolk and NSW) so those lines are almost cast in bronze.
Finding the bronze to cast Option 1 is moore difficult !
I have elected to use WikiTree (Moore-100433) but in retrospect FamilySearch probably has a much larger database (Moore LR1K-336).
Yes - the link worked.
Whichever lady emerges as the proven wife, she is my mtDNA ancestral line.
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1861 Census in Roydon confirms Mother of Elizabeth Moore;
William Moore 66 Head Farmer of 19 acres + 1 man
Mary Moore 64 Wife born East Winch*
Francis Moore 25 Son
Sarah Moore 22 Daughter
Rosbery Bone 10 Grandson born Grimston******
Bapt
21 Aug 1797 All Saints East Winch
MARY Laws daug of GRIFFIN/SARAH
Edit Sunday accidentially put Elizabeth yesterday!
As there were 2 William/Mary Moore couples around it was a little confusing to me at first :D
1851 for that family;
William More 56 Head Farm Bailiff
Mary More 54 Wife born East Winch****
Francis More 24 Son
Sarah More 13 Daughter
Frances L More 11 Daughter
And 1841;
William Moore 45
Mary Moore 40
Francis Moore 15
Mary Moore 12
William Moore 10
James Moore 8
Maurice Moore 5
Sarah Moore 2
Frances Moore 6 mths
Burial;
Rookwood, Sydney
Frances Laws Williams
Age 76
Birth Date abt 1840
Death Date 5 Feb. 1916
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Adding a bit to what Trish wrote
GRO INDEX (which is free)
Birth q3 1840 Frances MOORE mmn LAWS Freebridge Lynn Union vol 13 page 131
[ That certificate is available to download for the cost of £3. ]
Baptisms at Congham -
1840 Sep 1 (born Aug 18) Frances Laws daughter of William and Mary MOORE abode Congham occupation Shepherd.
[ The birth certificate will not give much more information than the birth certificate. Maybe the exact cottage in which they lived and the name of the person making the birth registration ; probably the mother ]
I attach a copy the baptism record which is availablle free from Familysearch. This is the sort of information which you need to be collecting Alan. Not depending on secondary or third or fourth hand stuff from Wikitree or any other tree. Such things can be useful qs hints but are often wrong.
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FamilySearch has two options for the parents of Mary Laws :1797-1890 (KGQ5-1MW)
Option 1 : Griffin LAWS 1771-1832 (LRIK-4LP) married Sarah HEARN : 1771-1830 (L29M-G6T) on 9 Jan 1797.
Griffin's parents were Thomas LAWS + Mary DAVEY. Sarah's were Richard HEARN(E) + Mary HARPER.
Option 2 : Thomas LAWS (MYS7-XR3) + Sarah unknown (MYS7-XR6)
I prefer the first option as it appeared elsewhere, but can anyone find other sources ?
Just to put this confusing bit of info to bed -
Both baptisms are said to have taken place on 21 Aug 1797 at East Winch. One has the father's name as Griffin and one has the father as Thomas. In 1797 there were just nine baptisms at East Winch.
Checking the images rather than just accepting the transcripts (as one should always do when possible)
It is clear that the transcripts are both correct. They are true versions of the original.
The record which gives the name as Griffin is the Parish Register.
The record which gives the name as Thomas is the Bishop's Transcript (BT).
So when they made up the BT they got it wrong.
Worth noting that the BT shows a marriage 7 Oct 1797 between Abraham DENTON and Ellen ALTORTON?.
Witness to that wedding were: Mary LAWS, Thomas LAWS (marked), John BIRD
I checked the image for the actual marriage and it is Thomas LAWS there also. So this is a different man or maybe Griffin was sometimes called Thomas.
Marriage at East WINCH ?? Oct 1780 - Thomas LAWS Widower and Mary DENTON Widow. So the witnesses at the 1797 marriage were not the same people as Griffin LAWS and some Mary LAWS. So the BT for the baptism of Mary LAWS in 1797 was just a clerical error and the father is Griffin LAWS not Thomas.
CORRECTION the LAWS DENTON marriage was in 1779 not 1780
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Thanks to Trish, Spelk and others who have contributed so positively to this question. It is very much appreciated. The 80/20 rule applies to genealogy as it does elsewhere; 20% who are able and experienced researchers, fading into the other 80%. My age puts me well into the 80% and a few hours of research glazes my eyes and starts the custard process in my brain. Regrettably I will not be delving deeply into original documents.
I use others peoples research freely but try to keep an open mind on conflicts such as this one and ask for help as necessary. WikiTree does offer a way to unequivocally identify profiles but dealing with this question made me appreciate FamilySearch does the same and has been doing it for much longer than WT and probably has a much larger database.
It will take some time to work through the whole string.
TRISH, you latest post suggests two William+Mary families, but surely they must be the same one ?. As for Raisbra, he has many spelling variations but this one seems preferred. I have an excellent photo of him from within our extended Australasian family. The thought that Griffin and Thomas could be one and the same is interesting and the evidence reasonable, but the confusion may have arisen because his father is Thomas.
WT allows FamilySearch as a source, so at the moment I feel much as though I’m simply copying these older profiles across from FS to WT.
Little wonder I prefer unequivocal Big-Y matches to arguable genealogy connections.
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This family is what threw me off;
1851 in East Rudham we have;
Mary Moore 42 Head Widow born St Magdalene image MAY BE 62****
John Moore 23 Son Ag Lab born Grimston
Thomas Moore 18 Son Ag Lab corn Grimston
John married 1852 and named his Father a William a Shepherd
Thomas in 1857 same info
1841 in East Rudham we have;
Mary Moore Nk
John Moore 10
James Moore 5 image is Thomas*
Anne Moore 10
So 2 William/Mary couples around