RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Lady Di on Wednesday 11 January 12 08:35 GMT (UK)
-
Can anyone work out what this guy's name is please.
I'm assuming his first name is Thos......... (something)
Thanks for your help
Di
-
Hi Di :)
That's a nasty one isn't it?!
My first impression is that it's either "Black" or "Bewick" ??? :-\
Cheers
Prue
-
Yes it is pretty horrible Prue - thanks for your suggestions.
I agree that it starts with a B..... but after that, your guess is as good and mine ::)
It was transcribed as Bligh, but I can't see that :-\
Cheers
Di
-
I thought Black with a very open-topped a and a tiny c...I'm not sure whether the dot near the k is the dot on an i or just a blemish :-\
Can't see Bligh, though.
-
Looks like Blhik to me but that doesn't make sense
Not too sure about those dots either
Confusing, to say the least ???
Di
-
which year and whereabouts was the wedding ?
It may be a relative or a neighbour, maybe the census can help ?
mark v
-
Good idea there Mark but the wedding was in 1891 in Sydney Australia ::)
I'm in the process of going through all the surnames starting with B .... and possibly ending in "K" in NSW but it's a long hard slow road I've chosen!
Was trying to make life a little bit easier ;D
Di
-
Di,
I will go through Sands Directory for Sydney 1890 starting with Bl and see what I can find .... hopefully he lived locally....
I will post some possible surnames for others to consider, back soon ::)
Cheers, JM
-
Thanks JM - I've been through the 1901 NSW census and can't find a name that looks like that.
Still looking ....
-
I am not looking at given names on the 1890 Sydney Sands Directory, just some possible surnames
Bilton, Binkins, Binskin, Birkbeck, Birket, Birkett, Bisiker, Black, Blacker, Blacket, Blackett, Bladen, Bladon, Blain, Blair, Blake, Blakeley ***, Blakers, Blakey, Blanks, Blenkin, Blinkhane, Blinkhore, Block, Bluthdon, Blush, Blyth, Blythe,
Should I try the “R” surnames next ?
There’s a Thomas M Blakeley at 18 Crown Road, Sydney
Cheers, JM
-
Phew - that's a long list. Thanks for those. :-*
Unfortunately none of those seem to be a match though :-\
Anyone else see a name there that looks about right?
As Prue mentioned, it seems to be a short name like Black but the more I look at it I can't see anything that makes sense.
Di
-
If you look at the h in ‘Thos’ the top of the letter is looped. Same applies to the 2nd letter of the surname which looks like an ‘l’. The 3rd and the last letter are not looped at the top, which to me would rule out f, h, k and l. Having said that I’m still as confused as when I started.
-
;D ;D ;D
Yes, I'm just as confused!
I think he just had terrible handwriting - probably couldn't even spell his own name so just made a scrawl pretending he knew what he was writing ::)
-
Were the family seriously wealthy or have French Connections perhaps ?
There's BIARD as in George d'Aunet BIARD, Consul General for France, at the Bond Street Chambers, with his private residence at Ferry St Hunter's Hill.... (in Samds 1890)
But then I would not expect a high society wedding at St Barnabas in 1890 .... (only because my own tree has rellies born in George St West, and also in Raglan St Darlington in that decade and they were van proprietors) ....
Cheers, JM
-
I see BENIN or BENIK. I favour the former.
??? ??? ???
Dawn M
-
Ohhh not, def not wealthy.
They were just simple country folk from out Forbes way originally (or at least his family was). I have no idea quite why they ended up at St B's for their marriage (unless they eloped!!)
Certainly can't see or believe a connection with the French gentleman.
Interesting proposition all the same ;D
I see BENIN or BENIK. I favour the former.
??? ??? ???
Dawn M
Now those are both new names I wouldn't have thought of - I'd been looking at BL....
Wonder if either surname is on the electoral roll etc.
Thanks Dawn - certainly makes me look at the name in a different light which is just what I needed
Cheers
Di
-
Hi
Another possibility
Thos B White - or perhaps not.... ?
-
A Thomas Francis Bethell was born in NSW in 1855. Could it have been spelled Bethill?
Richard
-
The WHITE or BETHILL names could be possibilities and I can see that the the end of the word could be ... te or ts or ll or any conbination thereof.
New perspective agin - thanks
Di
-
I was also thinking about White, but no initial of B, just Thos White. The letter W being a very stylised version starting with a down stroke and upstroke from the s followed by a curly downstroke and the final upstroke which looks like the letter L.
It would need a big leap of faith to accept that as being right but it's about the best I can come up with.
Colin
-
Thos Bench
Benck
Benik
Behir/Behar....
(Hedging my bets ;D)
Ann
-
Yes, I am not sure about that "B", it could well be a completely different capitalised letter .... "W" is a good option ;D but so too is "Z" and the last letter could then be a "y" all written above the line ***.... umm the Sands Directory for Sydney for 1890 has over 500 pages of entries, double columns per page, and only the head of the household is noted. ::) ... That witness could well have not been listed there .... Sometimes I really do want an RChat smiley of a STAMPING my foot variety :-X
The printed form that this mc is inserted onto is NOT the original, it is compiled from several digitised records, and then inserted onto a standard form currently being used by the NSW BDM office. The printed form has varied over the years, and is completely different from the one used in the 1980s when computerisation first came to the NSW BDM office.
Cheers, JM
-
Maybe Thos B Chit
-
Gosh - the possibilities seem to be endless. Thanks for all those options (I think ;D )
Now it's a simple task of tracing every single Tho's with those or similar surnames - easy peesy ::)
And at the end of the search we'll find he was the local parish clerk and he'd signed thousands of certs and wasn't related to any of the marriage partners (well, that's the way it usually goes, isn't it ;) )
The search continues ...
BTW JM - this signature is on the actual real honest to goodness "Certificate of Marriage" produced at the time of marriage and given to the Bride & Groom.
Cheers all and thanks for your help
Di
-
BTW JM - this signature is on the actual real honest to goodness "Certificate of Marriage" produced at the time of marriage and given to the Bride & Groom.
Cheers all and thanks for your help
Di
Phew, so it is a fair dinkum signature then ;D Ummm.... would it be easier to ask the archivist for the Sydney Diocese if they know the names of Rev Martin's assistants at that time ;D
Cheers, JM
-
Can you give all the names and addresses that appear on the certificate please, also occupations...if some possibilities appear, connection by association might be useful.
I saw it as Thos B Chick....?
-
STRUTH
YOU KNOW WHEN YOU BLOW IT UP....... IT LOOKS LIKE............. 8) :o ::)
Elphick
See.....http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Elphick
Maybe
Neil
-
It does too ....
I am off to the 1890 Sands Directory again .... thanks Neil
Cheers, JM
-
:'( :'( :'(
None with that surname in that 1890 Sands
:'( :'( :'(
-
Gosh - Elphick :o
Hey that's a new one for the "possibles" list Neil. ;D
Thanks for the suggestion. I've had a look at NSWBDM and can't find a Thomas Elphick who looks like a match (unless he never married or died ::) ) Still looking though ...
Can you give all the names and addresses that appear on the certificate please, also occupations...if some possibilities appear, connection by association might be useful.
Unfortunately it's the "Certificate of Marriage" wivenhoe and the only places mentioned are:
"Barwon River QLD" (residence of bride)
"Eugowra" (residence of groom)
St Barnabas church, George St., Sydney (place of Marriage)
That's about it unfortunately.
Currently waiting to get the official marriage cert so until that appears I think we'll return this to the "too hard" basket (yet again)
I'll report back if/when I ever find this guys name (living in hope ;D )
Many thanks for all your very able assistance
Cheers
Di
:-*
-
Well there are still GREEN families in Eugowra and surrounds including some of my friends of six plus decades ...
-
How about Thos Belick
-
Outside the square speculations ::)
Try using the NSW SRO keyword search option just with the one keyword, "Thomas" , and click on Deceased Estates ..... there's over 2000 returns, all in strict surname order ! .... It may give some possible surnames for interpreting that signature
There's also the index to Deposition Registers, with similar number of returns ....
And of course there's other indexes as well on that website....
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/
Cheers, JM
-
Staying inside the decipher square speculations. ::)
I not up on Aussy BMD's ? but here in the UK there was two register entries of a marriage one for the church and one for the register office also a copy sent to the bishop known as BT's. If its the same in OZ then a copy of one of the other entries may have a better readable entry of Thos ??.
-
Reading through, I cannot see, but might have missed... who are the bride and groom?
Young people usually have close family at a wedding. Do you know what age they are and the names of the four parents?
Might lead to names that look like possibilities.
What is the name of the other witness?
-
Staying inside the decipher square speculations. ::)
I not up on Aussy BMD's ? but here in the UK there was two register entries of a marriage one for the church and one for the register office also a copy sent to the bishop known as BT's. If its the same in OZ then a copy of one of the other entries may have a better readable entry of Thos ??.
Similar system in NSW Australia, however, the NSW BDM office usually only received a summary of the actual parish register in that particular era. ..... there were serious political issues, Church v State etc.... NSW BDM certificates usually provide vital family history info, eg the names and occupations of the parents of the bride and groom, the ages and occupations of bride and groom etc BUT there are still significant blanks on marriage certs for the very era we are looking at .... you see until 1895 NSW mcs were not providing those vital details
Adding, but of course the information should be recorded on the original parish registers .... BUT there was a huge fire at the church some years ago ....
Cheers, JM
-
Maybe a search of marriages of possible spouse surnames!? of brothers & sisters marriage or in the census also near neighbours on the same street. I have found witnesses this way before today.
-
:'( :'( :'(
We don't have census records like the UK ones .... our governing forefathers drew off the statistics and then to systematically incinerated the originals, leaving some scant householder reports from some of those 19th C collections.
The couple who married were from "out of town", hundreds of miles out of town actually, down from "the BUSH" ....
I think the OP is following up by seeking to contact the Archivist for the Diosese of Sydney, who may have the original parish registers.
Cheers, JM
-
Hi All,
As JM says, we don't have exactly the same rules and reg's in Oz as UK. The suggestion that the PR's, or another version of the marriage cert, may have this witness name written differently is a valid suggestion so we've have just ordered another "official" (ie untranscribed) version to see if the witness wrote his name in a ledgible fashion ::)
Unfortunately that will take up to 3 weeks to arrive so it's just a case of waiting for receipt of cert.
In the meantime, also asking/looking for the original PR's to see what they might have to offer.
So, it's just a case of wait and wait at the moment (with fingers crossed)
Thanks for all the ideas, suggestions and recommentations and everyone's help and attention.
Cheers
Di
-
Hi.
I'll keep out of OZ affairs :-[ ---- 'Thar Nooh-as' "Yu'd mit be reight abart! us poms' (The real ones in the UK)
Good luck ;) ---and lets hope it of help? when you do find out the witness surname.
-
My first thought when I looked at the signature was Thos B and what looks like the letter U finishing with an h or k
Jean
-
Thomas White possibly with the middle initial B died at Nymagee NSW in 1902.
Neil
-
Thomas B CLARK?
It's a difficult one!
-
Thomas B CLARK?
It's a difficult one!
very possible
-
Thanks for all your suggestions but at the moment I can't confirm or exclude any of those names.
When I have a better copy (hopefully) of his signature I'll update this thread but until that time we'll close this and wait for the new cert.
Thanks so much for all your ideas and suggestions
Cheers
Di