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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: sarahLB on Saturday 07 January 12 12:43 GMT (UK)
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The 1911 census has just unveiled the infirmity column and has revealed that my grandfather's sister was in an asylum and listed as a imbecile. Someone has added congenital above it. Does anyone have any idea what the condition could have been, I've got an idea but would like confirmation. She's also listed as a wara helper, any idea what that could be?
many thanks
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Could be Down syndrome which was poorly understood at that time - or just retardation.
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Hi Hannah, that was my first thought too. The girl in question was in the workhouse system from an early age and was left there by her mother. I'm wondering if that was the reason.
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Does it possibly say Ward Helper?
Probably Downs Syndrome but if she was helping on the ward, it would seem that she was actually quite a capable person. It is distressing to us to hear our ancestors described as imbeciles but I think we should just accept that it was the terminology of the day.
Jen
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Congenital merely means that the condition was present from birth.
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Some terms did have formal definitions in the UK although they are no longer used :
Term Idiot IQ 0 to 25 Modern term Severe learning disability
Imbecile IQ 25 to 50 Moderate learning disability
Feeble minded (moron) IQ 50 to 70 Mild learning disability
Those with an IQ of less than 50 usually need care throughout life and are unlikely to educable in the formal sense.
Stan
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Presumably some families put children with such learning difficulties into care simply because they couldn't afford to keep anyone who wasn't able to pay their way within the family and if the mother was in any form of paid employment, she couldn't give up the time to look after a child with special needs.
But that begs the question...who paid for the life long institutional care?
Stan - one for you, I think.
Jen :)
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The 1913 Mental Deficiency Act defined imbeciles as not being idiots, but were "incapable of managing themselves or their affairs, or, in the case of children, of being taught to do so."
http://studymore.org.uk/mhhglo.htm#MentalDeficiency
Asylums for lunatics were provided by a County or Borough, or by a union of Counties or Boroughs, and were funded by the rates http://studymore.org.uk/mhhtim.htm
Stan
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No ages were mentioned in the original post, but it should be noted that the maximum life expectancy for Downs Syndrome sufferers was 45 to 50.
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Thank you, it's all making more sense! It does say ward helper!! The father had deserted the family which is why the mother resorted to the workhouse, she then left to work in a coffee shop which makes sense about the need for care for the daughter. I could never work out why the daughter wasn't put back with the family at a later date but if she had difficulties it makes sense as the family had no money! She is admitted to Rochester asylum and a note is made at a later date mentioning the 1913 act.
Do workhouse infirmary records survive? (renfrew road lambeth)
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Hi Nick, Florence was born in 1889 and was working as a ward helper in 1911.
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Ah, so only 22 years old, then. Easy to assume that grandparents would have been old in 1911. Well, for people my age, anyway :)
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Many conditions can cause learning difficulties and what we call today "global developmental delay", - injuries, infections, genetic problems. However, she was obviously relatively able to have been a ward helper and it is possible she enjoyed her role in the Workhouse with meaningful work and people with whom she could have been friends. The censuses are only snapshots of a person's life and she may have returned to her family for visits or even to live. Obviously having learning difficulties from infancy is a sad situation, but it does not mean your great-aunt had an unhappy life.
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Thanks to everyone for your help, its helped to build up an understanding of the census info. Thanks also for not pointing out my obvious spelling mistake! :)
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If Florence was unable to live independently she obviously stayed at the hospital for life? The problem is I can't find her death registered at all. She was born Christmas eve 1889 - I can't think she'd have married so why can't I find her death?
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Unlikely to be Downs Syndrome as the medical term used in those days was "mongoloid", "mongol" or "mongoloid idiot" (until mid 60s in the medical profession and 1970s for the general population) and it has not been until recently (ie past few decades) that those afflicted lived beyond infancy or very early adulthood as associated medical problems were not treated.
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If Florence was unable to live independently she obviously stayed at the hospital for life? The problem is I can't find her death registered at all. She was born Christmas eve 1889 - I can't think she'd have married so why can't I find her death?
Where are you looking? If FreeBMD, the problem may be that she lived beyond the dates currently covered by that site, which is a work-in-progress.
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Hi I've tried free BMD and find my past. No luck so far!
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If Florence was unable to live independently she obviously stayed at the hospital for life? The problem is I can't find her death registered at all. She was born Christmas eve 1889 - I can't think she'd have married so why can't I find her death?
I don't think you can rule out marriage. Also, in 1911, the country was only 3 years away from WW1 - that could have changed her life in all sorts of ways.
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I don't think you have given her full name on here. If you do, we could help you to search for her death.
Jen :)
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I don't think you have given her full name on here. If you do, we could help you to search for her death.
Jen :)
Florence Venn
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,465070.msg3256298.html#msg3256298
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Thanks Je, I hadn't seen that thread.
I've had a quick look at the deaths on An*****y and can't see anything obvious at the moment but will keep looking.
Jen
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Interestingly, one of my g.uncles was in a mental asylum in 1911 and he, and all the other inmates, is just shown as "lunatic".
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Thanks Jen for looking :) Lizzie - Florence's brother was also in an institution and he is listed as feeble minded. Checking on different websites it seems it was all down to IQ.
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Sarah - According to the admission page of my g.uncle's notes (which is all the Manchester Archivists would let me have as he went into the asylum more than 100 years ago, but stayed there until he died in 1964, less than 100 years ago) my g.uncle was hearing voices, so I assume he was something like a schizophrenic, rather than a lunatic, which to me implies someone whose mental illness cannot be treated, even today. My mum remembers visiting him when she was a young girl and told me he seemed (to her) quite normal and was working as a gardener at the asylum.
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Some time ago, Brian Rix was talking about his daughter who had Downs.
When she was born, one of the doctors asked in all seriousness if he had been drunk when she was conceived!
That's why Lord Rix became involved with Mencap and had a lot to do with changing attitudes towards people with mental health problems
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Talking about weird diagnosis, I came across an inquest in the British Newspapers (whilst looking for something else). A man had had one drink of beer and then suffered severe stomach pains and dropped dead. The autopsy (how they did that in the late 1800s I don't know) suggested that he might have been poisoned. The doctor would have none of it and declared that the cause of death was by drinking beer that was too cold. ::)
I know some girl recently had to have her stomach removed after drinking a cocktail laced with liquid nitrogen - which it seems is a current fad - but they wouldn't have done anything like that in the late 1800s surely?
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but they wouldn't have done anything like that in the late 1800s surely?
It was apparently common to adulterate beer etc.
The licensing Act 1872, Section 19 Penalty on adulteration of intoxicating liquor, Section (1) says Every person who mixes or causes to be mixed with any intoxicating liquor sold or exposed for sale by him any deleterious ingredient, that is to say, any of the ingredients specified in the First Schedule to this Act,........
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/35-36/94/crossheading/adulteration/enacted
FIRST SCHEDULE Deleterious Ingredients Cocculus indicus, chloride of sodium otherwise common salt, copperas, opium, Indian hemp, strychnine, tobacco, darnel seed, extract of logwood, salts of zinc or lead, alum, and any extract or compound of any of the above ingredients.
In most cases the substances cited in the Act were used to increase the intoxicating power of the liquor, but a few were used as dyes.
Stan