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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: langtry on Thursday 05 January 12 14:06 GMT (UK)
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Can someone please help?
I have a John Hathaway born19/1/1783 Gloucester,married to Charlotte Miller circa 1804.
Trying to find his parents and his children, in fact looking for those above him as well.
Possible that his father was Thomas Hathaway,but nothing certain.
Any help at all on this family would be appreciated.
Thank you,
langtry
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Hi
Only thing I can find is 1841 Census, Coln ,St A ldwins Northleach Gloucester
John Hathaway 60yrs ,no marital status ,Ag Lab
living alone and Born in County.
Nothing before or after for him A death Maybe in Northleach
1856but no proof its him
Sorry couldn`t be more help
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Hi langtry,
I have this couple in my tree but given their marriage and children way before registration then not positive proof but reasonable speculation.
John HATHAWAY married Charlotte MILLER 14 Feb 1804 at Kingscote, Glos.
Chn for this couple - dates & locations given are christenings:
Charlotte 6 Dec 1804 Kingscote died 9 Dec 1804
Ann 1 Dec 1805 Kingscote
Edwin 24 Dec 1809 Boxwell with Leighterton
John 30 Jan 1812 ditto location
William c1814 Leighterton (from census)
Charlotte (my 3 x Great Grandmother) 17 or 19 July 1818 Leighterton
Caroline Hester c1822 Leighterton (from census)
I have John senior dying June qtr 1838 at Chipping Sodbury & Charlotte Sep qtr 1846 at Stroud. The 1841 census has Charlotte with unmarried children John, William and Caroline living in the parish of Hawkesbury which was in the regn district of Chipping Sodbury giving credence to the likely correct death regn for John senior.
Charlotte may have been living with then married son John at her death in 1846. He married in Dursley in 1842 and his children were born in towns/villages that came under the Stroud district.
I also can't find John seniors parents named on his christening (LDS site).
Please let me know if you would like more info.
Sandra
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Another RCer sent me the link to this message (soooo hung up on Chatterbox I rarely get to the forums!).
I descend from a Nicholas HATHAWAY, 1595 Kingscote, Gloucs., to USA ca. 1639. It is said his parents were Thomas and Margaret HATHAWAY of Kingscote.
Nicholas emigrated to America with (at least) son John b. 1626. It is known Nicholas had a daughter Deborah, baptised London in 1622, if I recall correctly. His mother's will calls him "maltster of London" and was done/probated prior to his emigration. Margaret's will is available online (at A2A, I believe).
Nicholas had several siblings mentioned in the wills of both Thomas and Margaret.
Obviously, my lineage is much earlier but I hope this helps you a bit. I can always be reached through Rootschat.
Good luck!
badger
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Hi langtry,
Source: Glos Archives PFC 191 1/4 1, Kingcote, Marriages & Baptisms:-
John HATHAWAY m. Charlotte MILLER, both of this parish, 14th February 1804, by licence in the presence of Herbert(?) HATHAWAY & John MORE.
Ann, dau of John & Charlotte HATHAWAY was born 4th November and christened 1st December 1805.
There were NO more baptisms up to and including 1812.
Victor
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Well done, Victor!
Anything in those records you cite going back to Nicholas, Thomas, and Margaret? I have the PR on microfilm at my FHC, but if there is something else you think would be of help to me, please let me know.
Thanks!
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OOPS! Well done, too, Sandra ... sorry!
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Hi Badger,
I'm more than happy enough to do further lookups, but can you be a bit more precise about Nicholas, Thomas & Margaret.
Victor
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Hi Victor and Badger,
It's great to get another piece of the puzzle isn't it?
Can someone explain the difference between marriage by license or by banns? Is one of them due to the bride or groom being under 21? From the age given in the 1841 census (forgetting for the moment the possible 5 year variation) I would have thought that Charlotte was 18 at marriage - wouldn't she require permission to marry from a parent or guardian? And wouldn't they have been one of the witnesses or at least named in the records?
Sandra
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Victor,
Could you possibly check your records for a marriage between Mary Ann HATHAWAY and Barnaby PENDLEY at Kingscote on 28 January 1802? This is the closest in similarity of the year of marriage for my John and Charlotte. I would just like to know if the parish records name her parents or the witnesses in the off chance that one of them might be the same as those for John's wedding 2 years later.
Also if you can find any births/baptisms at Kingscote around mid 1780's for any MILLER and HATHAWAY? I still can't find anything for Charlotte & John prior to marriage.
Regards,
Sandra
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Source: Glos Archives PFC 191 IN 1/3 1, Kingscote, Baptisms:-
William, son of Thomas HATHAWAY and Margaret his wife was baptised May 9th 1784.
Thomas, son of Thomas and Margaret HATHAWAY was baptised September 5th 1786.
Richard, son of Thomas and Margaret HATHAWAY was baptised this 2nd day of May 1790.
James, son of Thomas and Margaret HATHAWAY was baptised this 21st of August 1791.
Source: Glos Archives PFC 191 IN 141, Entry No.2, Kingscote, Marriages:-
Barnaby PENDLEY, of the parish of Nympsfield and Mary Ann HATHAWAY, of this parish, married in this church by licence this 20th day of January 1802 by me, George HAYWARD, Curate.
This marriage was solemnized between us Barnaby PENDLEY and Mary Ann HATHAWAY in the presence of Harriet HATHAWAY and John HATHAWAY.
Victor
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Thank you Victor. Mary Ann may have died shortly after marriage as Barnaby appears to remarry in 1805 then disappears.
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My sincere thanks to you all for your help with my request.
Appreciated very much.
langtry
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Can someone please help?
I have a John Hathaway born19/1/1783 Gloucester,married to Charlotte Miller circa 1804.
Trying to find his parents and his children, in fact looking for those above him as well.
Possible that his father was Thomas Hathaway,but nothing certain.
Any help at all on this family would be appreciated.
Thank you,
langtry
From death certificates just purchased by me:
John HATHAWAY 31 May 1838 at Old Close Farm, Wickwar (Chipping Sodbury) aged 55, Farmer, cause: Dropsy of the chest, Informant was Ann FOWLES
Charlotte HATHAWAY 21 July 1846 at Avening (no address given unfortunately), 66 years, widow of John HATHAWAY - farmer, Cause: Diseased liver, informant was William HATHAWAY
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Is this thread still live? I am descended from Charlotte Miller's brother William; these were the Millers of Ozleworth Park, and Newington Bagpath beforehand, and variously Bristol, Jamaica etc. I have some info in Charlotte's family.
Dale
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Hi Dale,
Charlotte was my 4 x Great Grandmother but until now I have been unable to trace her lineage as she died in 1846 so no POB was ever given on census. I see that a few public trees on Ancestry name her parents as George MILLER & Sarah HAINS. Is that what you have?
Sandra
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Charlotte was my 4 x Great Grandmother but until now I have been unable to trace her lineage as she died in 1846 so no POB was ever given on census. I see that a few public trees on Ancestry name her parents as George MILLER & Sarah HAINS. Is that what you have?
No I have something different. Charlotte was christened Charlotta PARSLOWE, daughter of Hester, 12 Dec 1779, at Newington Bagpath; father unrecorded. However Hester married Richard MILLER (Bagpath) 26 Apr 1781; their son, William MILLER, later of Ozleworth Park, is recorded as uncle of one Captain Edwin HATHAWAY on a memorial to the latter in Ozleworth churchyard. Edwin was a son of Charlotte and John HATHAWAY. William's uncle George made a bequest to a Charlotte MILLER, wife of John HATHAWAY, although does not refer to her as his daughter. He also left a bequest to a Susanna Stephens "reputed daughter of my brother" - suggesting George's brother Richard had form. Those bits made Charlotte Parslowe = Charlotte Miller reasonable. There is more if you would like, although direct email might be needed to send documents. But not more about Hathaway; locating John's parents has not been possible to date, although . . .
After Richard died Hester remarried, to a John MORSE, 20 Aug 1782. A witness to their wedding was a Thomas HATHAWAY; it would not be unreasonable to assume Thomas and John were related (it's a small parish), which might point to a specific John. I note in the IGI that baptisms of John HATHAWAYs tend to omit naming the parents. :'(
That George MILLER or his uncle of same name did have a wife Sarah, according to a Will, and may be the couple you mention. Do you have more on them?
Dale
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Hi Dale,
Everything you say makes absolute sense!
The marriage of Charlotte PARSLOWE/MILLER to John HATHAWAY in 1804 had John MORE as a witness. I suspect this may have actually been John MORSE if he was her step-father. I also have Sarah MORSE c1825 Newington Bagpath marrying John HATHAWAY in 1842. That particular John was the son of John & Charlotte. Sarah appears to be the daughter of a Thomas MORSE & unknown mother. I found Thomas plus daughters Harriet & Margaret in 1841. Margaret never married and later lived with various members of the family as cousin or sister so I know they are all inter-connected.
It looks like this is a far bigger family than I expected so would love to hear more from you. Please PM if you'd like to swap email addresses.
Sandra
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Charlotte was my 4 x Great Grandmother but until now I have been unable to trace her lineage as she died in 1846 so no POB was ever given on census. I see that a few public trees on Ancestry name her parents as George MILLER & Sarah HAINS. Is that what you have?
Her brother William was my 4 x great grandfather. :)
Dale
[Correction: he was my great x 3 grandfather, as his grand-daughter Louisa was my great-grandmother. It would help if people had been more imaginative naming babies. This family is littered with William(s), George(s) and Richard(s). And Esther/Hester. "Charlotte" was a nice change. ]
[Expansion: William and Charlotte's grandfather, a Richard MILLER alias MILLARD, had married an Elizabeth SHAKESPEAR [sic], both from Newington Bagpath parish. The Shakespear family went quite a long way back in the parish, as stonemasons and parish clerks; prior to the early 18th century the MILLERS seem to have been MILLARD of Boxwell parish, across the creek. ]
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Just to continue with some family information......I have been in contact with a newly-found relative of the Compton family and she has written ...
"Grandma Compton's mother was (I was told) the daughter of the Hathaway owner of Ozleworth Park near Wotton Edge, Glos. and she eloped with D.Essex a tenant farmer of the estate and was disowned."
Perhaps this is the answer to the query from Sandra dated Wednesday 11 January 2012 ?
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Just to clarify a a couple of points:
- Charlotte HATHAWAY nee MILLER had a brother, 2 years or so younger - William. Their parents Richard MILLER and Hester PARSLOWE got around to marrying in between them. It was that sort of parish.
- The brother owned Ozleworth Park in their lifetimes - he inherited from his uncle
- Two of Charlotte's daughters married an ESSEX each, David and Mark (in order, uncle and nephew), respectively Charlotte and Caroline.
- Charlotte (mother in this picture) inherited a certain amount from her uncle and mother, and elsewhere. But not in the Will of her brother; a messy divorce situation of his made it all problematical. Technically his entire family was illegitimate. What property etc passed between them when both were alive is obviously unrecorded.
- Meanwhile, their (Charlotte and William MILLER)'s mother, Hester nee PARSLOWE, remarried fairly quicky following the demise of their father Richard MILLER - to a John MORSE.
- Hester and John had a couple of sons, John and Thomas. Thomas in turn had three daughters (known, any other offspring unknown), Sarah, Harriet and Margaret MORSE.
- Aforesaid Sarah MORSE married a son of Charlotte and John HATHAWAY, another John; the latter is the man who turned up at Duntisbourne Abbotts (spelling?)
- In a couple of census returns Sarah HATHAWAY nee MORSE's two sisters turn up, presumably as visitors, and as being "of independent means"; possibly because their father Thomas's estate yielded a bit; he occupied (don't know about "owned" outright) Newington Farm - still exists, I gather, somewhat gentrified.
- Charlotte HATHAWAY nee MILLER and John HATHAWAY had a son who held a commission in the Army; he has a memorial in Ozleworth (St Nicholas) churchyard - Edwin HATHAWAY.
- The water is murkier; John HATHAWAY husband of Charlotte was a son of Thomas HATHAWAY and Margaret; Margaret had been a Margaret MORSE. Her father William MORSE was the grandfather of the Thomas MORSE mentioned above, and hence John HATHAWAY junior and Sarah MORSE were distantly related. It's a small parish, too. :-)
Er... well I hope that's clarified something. I would love to know more about what your "newly-found relative of the Compton family" might have been told in the distant past; the most obscure-looking detail can shed light on otherwise baffling mysteries - and with our lot there are a few of them.
cheers
Dale (descendant of William)
Queensland
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Sticking to the St John the Baptist, Kingscote theme I have now checked the 1813-1850 HATHAWAY burials and list them below:-
22/03/1815, HATHAWAY, Henry, 2w
21/12/1828, HATHAWAY, Margaret, 69
28/11/1829, HATHAWAY, Charlotte, 24
19/06/1830, HATHAWAY, James, 38
10/08/1831, HATHAWAY, Thomas, 73
07/07/1838, HATHAWAY, John, 55
10/04/1841, HATHAWAY, Harriett, 61
25/07/1846, HATHAWAY, Charlotte, 66
Hope that helps?
Victor
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Thank you for all the updates - I shall have to sit and study it ! Thanks for the hard work.
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Source: Glos Archives (GA) PFC 191 IN 1/4 1, Entry No 2, Kingscote, Marriages:-
Barnaby PENDLEY of the parish of Nympsfield and Mary Ann HATHAWAY of this parish were married in the Church by Licence the 20th day of January 1802.
Signed Barnaby PENDLEY & Mary Ann HATHAWAY in the presence of Harriet HATHAWAY & John HATHAWAY
Source: Glos Archives (GA) PFC 191 IN 1/3 1, Kingscote, Baptisms:-
Children of Thomas & Margaret HATHAWAY:-
09/05/1784, William HATHAWAY
05/09/1786, Thomas HATHAWAY
28/05/1788, Richard HATHAWAY
02/05/1790, Richard HATHAWAY
10/07/1791, James HATHAWAY
Children of William & Sarah HATHAWAY:-
06/06/1784, Thomas HATHAWAY
08/01/1786, Betty HATHAWAY
22/06/1788, Mary HATHAWAY
Victor :)
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Thank you Victor - all grist for the mill. :)
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Victor...
Could I impose upon you for a moment, or several; or even quite a few: it would help reconstructions if I knew who was buried etc as follows:
- MORSE in Newington-Bagpath, Kingscote or Boxwell/Leighterton between say 1770 and 1850;
- MILLER or MILLARD from 1740 _backwards_ in Boxwell/Leighterton - esp. "Pansford" or similar;
- SHAKESPEAR in Newington-Bagpath or nearby Tresham in Hawkesbury parish, if it had its own cemetery, from 1700 on to say 1850 when they sort-of disappear (census);
- HATHAWAY you've covered, but are there HATHAWAY records for Ozleworth - St Nicholas of Myra? Via the MILLER/MILLARD connection there should be one or more there.
We'll quietly skip HOLBOROW as they are legion. All these families are inter-connected in what I've been able to discover so far (as a descendant of the MILLERs of Ozleworth Park), but as they all had a depressingly limited repertoire of christian names it's very confusing. I've tried baptisms and marriages; time to try burials.
Thanks, hopefully in advance
Dale
In somewhat damp Queensland