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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Elizajb on Tuesday 03 January 12 09:20 GMT (UK)
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Has anyone any ideas on how to find a marriage? William Hunter married Mary Blake, probably in Northumberland about 1848. William was born in Haltwhistle and Mary in Scotland (don't know where). I've searched ancestry, findmypast, familysearch, freebmd and can't find a record of their marriage. In the 1851 census they were living in Thorngrafton, Haltwhistle and William was a quarryman. They had a 2 year old daughter, Mary A who was born in Bickershaw, Northumberland but I haven't been able to quite pin that location down. I can't track Mary's family till I know who her parents were or what part of Scotland she came from, so I'm a bit stumped. Help!
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They had a 2 year old daughter, Mary A who was born in Bickershaw, Northumberland but I haven't been able to quite pin that location down.
It's not Bickershaw, it's Birkshaw, which is at Thorngrafton :)
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?coords=377685,565709
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1617947
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Elizajb,
Although the 1851 census ( 2416-171-3) has Mary Hunter's " Where Born" as Scotland, the 1861 census (3866-107-5) shows her "Where Born" as
Falstone.
Falstone was a parish, a very expansive one, lying in the corner where the borders of Scotland, Northumberland and Cumberland met. Falstone was a small community lying noth west of Bellingham village.
Several Scottish parishes, within the county of Roxburghshire, bordered the parish of Falstone, e.g. Castleton, Teviotdale, Hopkirk, Southdean, etc. The Cumberland parish of Bewcastle was adjacent to Falstone.
Did you search for the marriage beyond Church of England records. Both the parishes of Falstone and Haltwhistle had Presbyterian churches from mid 1750s.
Michael
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Michael has identified Falstone as place of birth
1851 Census HO107 2415 432 15
The eldest child, Margaret Blake, was born Fallstone c. 1828
1841 HO107 843 9/18 15
This is the same family. It includes a Mary Blake born c.1826 and Margaret c. 1828
Possibilty?
regards
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There is a burial in Falston
Margaret Blake aged 84 years
December 30 th 1848
abode given as Rickinton New Casleton Scotland
may be grandma
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Paul Blakey married Jane Scot in Falstone in 1780,
so they are around there some where,
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Thankyou very much JenB, Michael, Hanes and Radcliff, that is very very helpful. No wonder I couldn't find Bickershaw! I had seen a Bellingham family in the 1841 census but wasn't sure because I'd seen one or two others in other places as well and I'm not familiar with the area, or country, at all. I think the parents in that family were listed as being from Scotland but the children weren't. I had sent away for the birth certificate of one of Mary and William Hunter's children (John Blake Hunter) and it had recorded Mary as being born in Scotland which is why I thought she had been but it seems from what you say that it might be incorrectly recorded due to the situation of Falstone in the border counties. With regard to the marriage search, I'm not very experienced with the family history yet, so does that mean that the marriages recorded in findmypast and other sites are mainly Church of England? How does one go about finding the Presbyterian records? Many thanks to you all for your wonderful input.
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In respect of the William Hunter/Mary Blake marriage, it doesn't matter what denomination they were married in - C of E, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic - it was after Civil Registration began in late 1837 the marriage should be on the GRO index.
In theory that is......
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I did notice in those Falstone records I looked through,that the minister was a Presbyterian on some records ,not all.
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Oh Thanks JenB and Radcliff, I need to go back and re-do my search and hope I've just missed something. It does appear that this is definitely the family I'm after so I can probably safely track them back further but if I could find the marriage for Mary then I can prove it, if you know what I mean.
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how do you know her maiden name was Blake? AND if ti is Blake could she maybe have been married before albeit for a shirt while no children produced perhaps and that's why you cannot find a Blake / Hunter marriage unless of course Mary A was from Mary Blakes first marriage accounting for an apparent absence of her birth entry in the GRo
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Hi Toni, good point, I hadn't thought of that. I have her "former" name listed as Blake on the birth certificate I recently received for her son, John Blake Hunter. I hadn't followed up on the other two children she had in the 1861 census so I didn't realise Mary A is not found on the GRO index. I've just had a wee look on freebmd but can't yet make a connection for a previous marriage and a marriage to William Hunter but will need to spend more time on it, I just had a quick look before replying. I know she did remarry around 1861 to a man by the surname of Dent, so William died some time between 1851 and 1861. His father William died also, so I'm not sure which death is which yet as I haven't sent away for the certificates.
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I didn't realise Mary A is not found on the GRO index.
Yes she is - Mary Ann Hunter, 4q 1848,Haltwhistle 25, 294
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1861 census Hexham
RG9 /3859
Christian Blake,born Scotland,female,head aged 55 auctn widow,
Margaret daughter aged 29 ,dressmaker born( Falstone)
Elizabeth,dressmaker. born Simonburn aged 23
Jessie aged 20 born Falstone,domestic
Hannah aged 13 born Simonburn
The family are in Wark ,1841,
HO107/843
parents born Scotland
John auctioneer,aged 35
Christion,aged 35
Mary,15
Margaret,13
William,11
Robert,10
Christion,7
Elizabeth,4
Jessie,1
all the children are born in Northumberland
possible burial of John ,aged 52,Hexham,17th of September 1853,St Andrew,
worth a look up for marriage of parents,John and Christian ,father also born Scotland
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on free bmd Mary Ann Blakey is one of 7 entries for marriages in September 1841,Newcastle
possibly a bit young,
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on free bmd Mary Ann Blakey is one of 7 entries for marriages in September 1841,Newcastle
possibly a bit young,
She married Joseph Anderson http://www2.newcastle.gov.uk/msearch.nsf/MarriageSearch
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Thanks Jen
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on the 1841 I have written Robert ,but if you go to 1871
it is Robina daughter of Christian Blake
Mill Lane,Elswick,Benwell St James Newcastle,
RG10/5082
Edward Graham ,quarry man born Haltwhistle aged 41
Elizabeth ,wife aged 34 born Simonburn
John ,son aged 10 months,
Christian Blake,aged 66,mother born Scotland,mother
Robina aged 27 sister,born Simonburn,dressmaker,
unless of course she is the Robina born 1844 Hexham
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Mary Ann Hunter daughter of William and Mary her baptism is available on family search org ,
non conformist records ,but it is pay to view,
Mariam Hunter daughter of William and Mary ,Haltwhistle
26 th of October 1848
getting closer
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Does any one know if the Haltwhistle Presbyterian records are available in Newcastle to look up John Blake Hunters baptism ,son of William Hunter and Mary Ann Blake,,born 17th of October 1853,baptism 15 th of May 1854
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Wow, thankyou everybody! I just checked my topic and for some reason I hadn't received the notification of new replies. Many many thanks for all your help.
Regards Elizajb.
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Does any one know if the Haltwhistle Presbyterian records are available in Newcastle to look up John Blake Hunters baptism ,son of William Hunter and Mary Ann Blake,,born 17th of October 1853,baptism 15 th of May 1854
Elizajb already has the birth certificate for John Blake Hunter - would the baptism certificate give any more info than she already has?
They won't be at Tyne & Wear Archives - probably at Woodhorn.
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Hi JenB,
Just had another look at John Blake's birth certificate and one other bit of information is that he was born at Causeway, Henshaw. Father William Hunter, a farmer. Resident at Causeway, Henshaw. Is that close to, or part of Haltwhistle?
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GenUKI says that Haltwhistle Presbyterian Births/Baptism 1752-1874 are held at Northumberland County Record Office (Woodhorn). But Tyne & Wear
Archives and Newcastle Central Library do not get a mention.
Michael
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Henshaw is some 3 miles east of Haltwhistle, but was in Haltwhistle Registration District http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/haltwhistle.html
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?coords=376500,564500
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William Hunters,husband of Mary Blake father was a farm labourer ,I thought yours was a quarry man,
taking the information from 1851 census Haltwhistle,
So I shall look again,in Henshaw ,
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Just had another look at John Blake's birth certificate and one other bit of information is that he was born at Causeway, Henshaw. Father William Hunter, a farmer. Resident at Causeway, Henshaw. Is that close to, or part of Haltwhistle?
Here's a Causeway House in Henshaw Township. Right up close to Hadrian's Wall, and not very far north-west of Birkshaw where Mary Ann was born
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?coords=376300,566334
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The Parish of Haltwhistle in your era was comprised of 13 "townships". Henshaw was one of the 13. Within the township ( an area ) of Henshaw was the community of Henshaw.
Greenwoods 1828 map.
http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk//007475.htm
Michael
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That's a nice map Michael, and Causeway Houses appear on it :D
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Jennifer,
Yes, just noticed that myself.
My Godfrey Watson's book on Northumberland's place names, has places with names like Causeway, Causey, Corse, named after their old Roman paved or stone roads.
Michael
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I all ways like reading your information Michael ,very informative, it gives me a better understanding of the area we are working in,
but I still haven't found the marriage for Mary Blake,
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Hi Radcliff, Yes, in the 1851 census, William is recorded as a quarryman, although his father William is an agricultural labourer but I see in John Blake's birth certificate, William is recorded as a farmer. I also saw a few weeks ago that in the 1861 census, Mary, his wife, is recorded as a farmer of 27 acres and I think she was on her own with her children at that time. William must have changed employment between 1851 and 1853 when John B was born.
It's very interesting reading all the info that has been posted about the various places mentioned. Those of you contributing have lots of knowledge, which is a real gift for me in my family history search.
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Gillian, Thank you , my dtr describes my info as mainly flannel ! But I can take it lol.
Michael
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Elizajb
You say the occupation changes and Mary has a farm and land later,after 1853,as her father dies in 1853,(auctioneer) I wonder if they inherited some money or land ,I have researched her father briefly,and come up with nothing substantial ,it might be an idea to look up a possible will for John Blake,I have very little knowledge when it comes to research,I just look at every thing and any thing for clues,
some thing else may turn up,
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Thank you , my dtr describes my info as mainly flannel ! But I can take it lol.
She should hang her head in shame ;D ;D
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I agree with you,every thing Michael posts is a little bit of an education for me on the geography and history of Northumberland,
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Newcastle Courant - Friday, 22 July 1853
JOHN BLAKE, AUCTIONEER & APPRAISER, HEXHAM
"Returns his most sincere thanks to his friends and the public generally, for the liberal support he has received during the seventeen years he has been in the above business, more especially for the last four years of that period, during which he has extended his business from Alston to Coquet Head, and hopes, through strict attention and perseverance, still to merit a greater share of public patronage"
So, he was looking forward to the future with confidence.
On 19 August the Newcastle Courant included an item "John Blake, Auctioneer, Hexham, respectfully announces he will hold his Third Quarter sale on 23rd August ......"
The death of a "John Blake, Hexham" was recorded for the Sep Qtr 1853 (Jul-Sep). John died sometime between 19 Aug and 30 Sept 1853?
In early 1854 William Blake announced in the Newcastle Courant he "had taken out the License as an AUCTIONEER AND APPRAISER to succeed his father, the late John Blake, in the business"
regards
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Fantastic,this is the sort of notice I was looking for , he was an auctioneer,every thing fits ,
I am sure Eiza will be chuffed to bits with this information,
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Hi everyone, please excuse my intermittent replies, it's holiday season here and visitors coming and going are interrupting my sleuthing! That info is great thankyou hanes teulu and I've spent the last hour trying to find a will or probate record, but to no avail. I did find a burial record for a John Blake Hopefully mine) which you've probably already seen as well, which states he was buried on 17 September, 1853. The "dedication" place was St Andrew, which I assume is a church, in Hexham area and the denomination was Anglican. He was quite young really at 52. I see that his widow Christian was living with her single children in 1861 but in 1871 was living with, I think her daughter Elizabeth and son-in-law Edward Graham. John Blake Hunter was born a month after the death of John Blake so I assume was named in his memory. My sleuthing efforts rather pale in comparison to some of you so I'm very grateful for your help.
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No worries Christian Armstrong Blake sister to Mary Ann marries Hexham December 1858
Jessie 1865Hexham,spouse William Alcroft
possibly mums maidan name was Armstrong
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The "dedication" place was St Andrew, which I assume is a church, in Hexham area and the denomination was Anglican.
Not just any church...that's Hexham Abbey :D :D
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An abbey! Really? Wow!! As you can see, I'm completely unfamiliar with the area. In fact when I began this search, the only name I knew was that of the son of John Blake Hunter (had never even heard of JBH). This Miss Marple hobby is very addictive isn't it.
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http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=27809146
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Thankyou very much JenB, I'm just about to look at all the photos. Isn't it beautiful!!
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The baptisms at Haltwhistle Presbyterian :
Marian, daughter of William and Mary Hunter, was born at Birkshaw, 3 Oct, and baptized 26 Oct 1848.
Robert, son of William and Mary Hunter, was born at Chainlyford, 23 Sept, and baptized 25 Sept 1850.
John Blake, son of William and Mary Hunter, was born at Archiesflat, 17 Oct 1853, and baptized 16 May 1854.
Alan.
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In 1861 census, widowed Mary is a farmer of 26 acres at Archeysflat in Henshaw. Same place of abode as recorded at the baptism of John Blake Hunter in 1854.
It looks like Mary then married Nicholas Dent, Dec Qtr 1861 Haltwhistle.
Nicholas is a Railway Inspector, aged 41, also living in Henshaw in 1861 census.
A series of weekly Advertisements in the Newcastle Courant, Feb 13 to March 13 1863 :
"To be sold by Auction at the Old Grey Bull Inn in Hexham ... on Tuesday 17th March 1863 ....
Lot 2. The customary estate called Archeys Flat and Meadow Dales, in the said parish of Haltwhistle, consisting of a good Farmhouse and suitable outbuildings and 37 acres, 3 roods, 35 perches, or thereabouts, of meadow and pastureland, with thriving plantations thereon, as now occupied by Mr Nicholas Dent".
The marriage cert of Mary and Nicholas should give Marys fathers name and occupation.
Alan.
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Thanks very kindly Alan for your info. Are the baptism details online somewhere? I can find them via the Hugh Wallis IGI site but not the detail of the actual places eg. Archeysflat. It looks like Mary and Nicholas acquired more land between 1861 and 1863 and seemed to be doing quite well. I wonder why they decided to sell, or whether even in those days, it wasn't enough land to live on. I've tried again to track down the marriage of Mary and William Hunter but to no avail. I'm sure they must have married and somehow or other I found a link to parish marriages (I think it was Newcastle Council site) but couldn't find them. I feel fairly sure the family is correct but not being able to find the index link is like having an "i" with no dot on it!
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Maybe they went north to marry--like Gretna Green.
I don't think Haltwhistle Presby records are on line except names and date. You have to have access either at a record respository like Woodhorn or a transcript (fiche)
Janis
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Elizajb, pm me your email address and I will send you pdfs of the Haltwhistle Presbyterian baptisms.
I can't find a marriage for Mary and William either.
Mary has a son William aged 4, born Haltwhistle, in 1861 census, and his baptism isn't in the Haltwhistle Presbyterian records.
Familysearch has a baptism of a William, 7 Sep 1856, son of William and Mary Hunter, at Haltwhistle Primitive Methodist Church, so thats probably him.
If you just want to confirm Marys parentage (shes very likely the daughter of John Blake auctioneer, but needs confirming), then the marriage cert of Mary and Nicholas Dent should confirm this.
It should give Marys age and status (widow), and place of abode, and her fathers name and occupation. Same for Nicholas. Plus some witnesses. It will give at least as much information on Mary (and probably much more) than you would get from a church marriage record with William.
Did Nicholas, Mary and family emigrate after leaving Archeys Flat Farm in 1863, I can't find them on any census after that?
Alan.
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That would be good thanks Alan and yes, it's really just proving Mary's parents at this stage so I think I'll order her 2nd marriage certificate as you suggested. She and Nicholas did emigrate after their marriage which is surprising given that things looked reasonably comfortable for them at home.
2zpool - thankyou for your input. I've just had a look at the indexes for Gretna Green but sadly William Hunter and Mary are not among them. Good thought though!
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Hi
I am a direct descendant of John Blake Auctioneer he is my gggg grandfather.
My gg grandfather was Robert Blake French, my grandfather was also Robert Blake French and my son who is 18 is Alex Blake aswel!!
A lot of the descendants of John and Christian's children moved to Co. Durham mainly the Consett area which is where I am from.
I have lots of information, documents and photographs of headstones etc, the only downside is that I have only been able to find John's mother who is Margaret Blake but no father. I have not managed to find any of Christian's parents.
I did not research any of the siblings of John Blake, at the time when I began my research approx 9 years ago the records were inconclusive and I had no evidence to confirm who or if any of his brothers and sisters were?
Inbox me and I will give you all of the information I have.
Thanks
Amanda (French)
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Fantastic Amanda, pm follows!!
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I don't know if this is your family --but--maybe:
birth/baptisms Haltwhistle Presbyterian:
Job Hunter born 7 Jul 1825, baptised 13 July 1825 s/o William and Mary, Garrockhall
George Hunter born 28 May 1827, baptised 9 Sep 1827 s/o William and Mary, Garrockhall
Amos Hunter born 25 Jan 1830, baptised 9 Jun 1830 s/o William and Mary, Garrockhall
Hugh Hunter born 23 Oct 1832, baptised 30 Oct 1832 s/o William and Mary, Garrockhall
Janis
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Hi 2zpool, I'm not sure whether they are related to our family. Not unless the four boys listed are also brothers of Mary Blake's husband, William Hunter (b abt. 1822) which they could be, but I don't have info at this stage on William Hunter's father, William. Our ancestor was John Blake Hunter (b1853), son of William and Mary Hunter and brother of Mary Ann Hunter (b. 1848) and William Hunter (b.1856).
Many thanks for your "digging" help.