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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: salhyde on Wednesday 28 December 11 23:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Wednesday 28 December 11 23:36 GMT (UK)
This is my Grandfather. His name was Leonard Milburn, he lived in Sunderland b:25 Sept 1898 - d:3 March 1940. I would like to know what this uniform he is wearing is if anyone can help. I know he was an accountant when he died, and I haven't found any military records for him, so not sure why he is wearing this uniform.
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: Vabre on Thursday 29 December 11 00:38 GMT (UK)
He looks as though he may have been a cadet by having a white band around his hat also it appears to me that the badge on his cap is an artillery badge.

John...Sydney :)
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: Vabre on Thursday 29 December 11 00:42 GMT (UK)
Also, going by the dates you posted he may have been an Artillery Army cadet just prior to WW1.
Just my twopence worth.

John...Sydney

Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Thursday 29 December 11 00:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks John, I have always wondered about this photo. I guess he would have been too young to fight in the war as he would have been 16 when it started and 20 when it ended? Were the cadets like a sort of home guard service?
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: barryd on Thursday 29 December 11 01:57 GMT (UK)
If it is the same Leonard Milburn he had numerous cases as a Liquidator in Sunderland during 1920s/1930s. "Leonard Milburn of Central Buidings, West Sunniside, Sunderland was appointed liquidator" etc.. All on the London Gazette website.   
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Thursday 29 December 11 02:05 GMT (UK)
That is very interesting, he was a Charted Accountant, so that sounds right. How do I see those items?
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: barryd on Thursday 29 December 11 02:36 GMT (UK)
Google "London Gazette"     and you should see London Gazette Online. Then London Gazette Home Page. then a blue Search the Archive. and then type in the box called "with exact phrase"  - Leonard Millburn, most of the items that refer to him will start off Leonard Milburn, Central Buildings ......

Where he had his office is described in some articles as............ Sunniside grew up in the Victorian Era as the original business centre of Sunderland............
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: barryd on Thursday 29 December 11 03:12 GMT (UK)
Leonard Milburn has records in the Tyne and Wear Archives and the National Archives. Three of the ones from Tyne and Wear are:

Leonard Milburn, Chartered Accountant, Sunderland 
Admin/History The firm was started in the 1920's by Leonard Milburn who continued as a sole practitioner for approximately five years until the admission to partnership of Stanley Cowey. Mr Milburn died in 1940. The firm was styled L Milburn & Co until 1971, when, following a merger with a local firm, it was renamed Milburn, Torgersen & Co. In 1980 it merged with Nicholson, Forsythe & Co. and became Torgerson Nicholson & Co. 

Articles of clerkship 
Date 14 May 1915 
Description Leonard Milburn, son of George James Milburn, of 10 Ettrick Grove, Sunderland, to Richard Southern Burkett of 66 John Street, Sunderland, Chartered Accountant {possibly this is the reason why he was not called up - still under Articles} 

Correspondence 
Date 3-11 March 1927 
Description: Correspondence  between Leonard Milburn, Chartered Accountants, Central Buildings, West Sunniside, Sunderland, and Stanley Cowey of Boldon Colliery re terms of employment [including concern that he should not "submit (himself) to cold lunches every day"] 
Format 3 papers 

Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Thursday 29 December 11 03:30 GMT (UK)
This is lovely, thankyou very much. I never met him, of course, as he died so young. My mum was 5 when he died. I will forward all of this onto her also, she will enjoy reading about her dad :-) Thankyou again - very precious stuff! I feel proud of my grandfather.

Is there some way I can see more online? I live in NZ so can only do family history online unfortunately. Are thoses papers availble for me to see at all?


Sally
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Thursday 29 December 11 03:44 GMT (UK)
I hope the large lunches didnt contribute to his massive heart attack aged 41 :-/ ???
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 29 December 11 08:37 GMT (UK)
See the photograph at http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205023919

Stan
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 29 December 11 09:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks John, I have always wondered about this photo. I guess he would have been too young to fight in the war as he would have been 16 when it started and 20 when it ended? Were the cadets like a sort of home guard service?

Officer Cadets were men who had been selected as potential officers, they went to an Officer Training School, and if they successfully passed the course were commissioned  as officers in the Regular Army.

Stan
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Monday 02 January 12 05:44 GMT (UK)
Thanks Stan, that's awesome :-) Good to know he was officer material!
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Saturday 26 October 13 04:18 BST (UK)
It's been a while since I first started this thread.

Since this time I have found 2 items, firstly a record MIC (medal entitlement card) stating that Leonard was entitled and should have received  the Victory Medal and British War medal. I also have found a military compass with his name on and the letters RGA.

Where can I find out if he did indeed fight in WW1? And if he fought outside the UK?

So, I now know he was in the Royal G (?) Artillery The man that sold me the compass thinks he was part of the Durham R.G.A.  Sunderland  (I think ...the No.1 Heavy Battery).

One last question, if I wanted to keep an eye out for his WW1 medals, where would be the best place to look, or am I dreaming?

Cheers

Sally
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 26 October 13 04:37 BST (UK)
RGA   Royal Garrison Artillery
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Saturday 26 October 13 04:40 BST (UK)
Thanks for that :-)

Here's a pic of the compass
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 26 October 13 04:57 BST (UK)
what info does his mic card give,,,,does it give his rank?  does it give his regiment as just RGA?  it should state theatre of war first served in,,,is there a mention that he was wounded,,or a notation stating swb anywhere on it? 
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Saturday 26 October 13 05:13 BST (UK)
Ok it says:

RFA 2nd/Lieut

Milburn L
Victory Vol C/162. 851 E
British - ditto mark

then a bracket connecting those 2 medals with - IV/1391 d/24.2.31
NW/3/20069

there is a second card with his address later in life
Central Buildings
West Sunnyside
Sunderland

On this second page it also has:
Appen (I think) 12/3/31

That is all.

S
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Saturday 26 October 13 05:16 BST (UK)
I also found this in London Gazette 23 June 1919:


June 1919.
2nd Lt. L'. Milburn, Durham R.G.A., to
be Lt., next beloiw Lt. R. Phaup. 1st Mar.
1919.
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 26 October 13 06:00 BST (UK)
Not sure if this newspaper report is your Leonard,,,as there is another Leonard J Milburn who was also a 2nd lieutenant in the Royal Field artillery,,but thought I would post it

Newcastle Journal

Thursday 01 July 1915

"Lieut. Milburn Wounded. Lieut. Leonard Milburn, Ist Brigade Northumberland Artillery, has been severely wounded in, action in France, and is now in English hospital in the south.

Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 26 October 13 06:03 BST (UK)
thiking about it,,i doubt this is your Leonard,,,he would be only 17/18  and if he was serving in 1915 in France,,,im pretty sure he would have got the Star medal also,,,,but one of the military experts can confirm that.
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: gortonboy on Saturday 26 October 13 06:15 BST (UK)
re  the medals,,,there are some sites trying to reunite family members with lost medals,,,,,have a google,,,one such site is http://www.lostmedals.co.uk/




Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Saturday 26 October 13 10:44 BST (UK)
Thanks for that, yes I saw there was a L J Milburn in Northumberland. I am thinking that is a different person I have seen him mentioned as Leonard J Milburn Bart. I don't know what the "Bart' is. My Leonard was very definitely a Wearsider rather than a Tynesider, Durham and Sunderland.
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Saturday 26 October 13 11:07 BST (UK)
I looked at that site and no luck. Thanks for the info re the Star medal, I will make a note of that. My grandfather died in 1940, so passed down stories are a bit scarce :-) I will have a play with google, see what happens :)
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 26 October 13 11:07 BST (UK)
J Milburn Bart. I don't know what the "Bart' is

A baronet, traditional abbreviation Bart.

Stan
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 26 October 13 11:11 BST (UK)
See Leonard J. Milburn, Sir, Bart.  http://www.dmm.org.uk/whoswho/m901.htm

Stan
Title: Re: Uniform Help
Post by: salhyde on Saturday 26 October 13 11:17 BST (UK)
Thanks Stan, that's not my grandfather though. Mine was just Leonard Milburn and he was born and lived and died in Sunderland. He was an accountant.