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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Jillie42 on Wednesday 28 December 11 20:37 GMT (UK)
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This is as much as I have. Ir's a copy of the original which was sent to me. I don't have the original. There is some text at the bottom which appears to be the photographers name. it isn't clear but under a magnifying glass I think it says
W J Brown and Son
Thanks in advance ;D
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a clean up
Irene
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Thanks Irene. Much easier to see her neckline now. Hopefully, that will make dating easier.
Cheers, ;) :) Jillie
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I would hazard a guess at 1920s, but without seeing the rest of her outfit it's hard to say. The bobbed hairstyle wouldn't be out of place in the late 20s though.
Cheers,
China
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I'd say this was probably taken in the latter 1910s or early 1920s - right on the cusp of fashions changing from Edwardian to flapper. I hate to disagree with China, but I don't think the hair is a bob per se. I think it's just tucked up and to the back. I'm not sure what the exact name for it is, but I believe it was a vogue hairstyle between the Gibson Girl pompadour and the finger wave. I'd also say that the top of the dress appears to be from around this time frame as well.
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I'd say this was probably taken in the latter 1910s or early 1920s - right on the cusp of fashions changing from Edwardian to flapper. I hate to disagree with China, but I don't think the hair is a bob per se. I think it's just tucked up and to the back. I'm not sure what the exact name for it is, but I believe it was a vogue hairstyle between the Gibson Girl pompadour and the finger wave. I'd also say that the top of the dress appears to be from around this time frame as well.
The hair at the back of her head is definitely rolled up and after doing a little research into 20's fashion on the net I think late 1910s to early 1920s sounds about right.
If it's the lady I believe it to be, she was born in 1898 and would be in her early 20's at the end of the 1910s. She was also a good catholic girl - well, apart from being pregnant before she got married ;)
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The square neckline indicates a date of late WW1.As this is a cabinet card I doubt it would be as late as early 20's.So I would suggest 1917-20.
jim
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Thanks Jim. What is a cabinet card? :-[ ???
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http://www.city-gallery.com/learning/types/cabinet_card/index.php
Explanation here.
jim
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That's very interesting Jim. I wish I had the original but what I've been sent seems to be a copy of a copy. Interesting to see what 1924 was about the last date it could probably have been and also helps me to be more certain of the indentity of the female in the picture.
Thanks to everyone who has replied. I appreciate it a great deal
;D
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I have to say I'm really confused now :-\ :'(
I've been told that the picture is more likely to be a carte de visite (sp?) from the early 1900's. This would mean the photo is much too early to be the person I believe her to be and the clothes and hairstyle seem rather late for those years
Jill
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The CDV had gone the way of the dodo by the mid 1870s and been replaced by the much larger cabinet card. This woman's neckline and hairstyle are way too late for the early 1900s. Could it be that this isn't the person you thought it was? That happens all the time on the board :P :)
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She looks to be in her early 20's & if as you say she was born in 1898 would make this around 1918-20 which is within the timeframe you've been given.I can't see the reason for any confusion.
As China says the CdeV had long gone by this time.
jim
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Far be it from me to argue with China and Jim ... ;D :-X
...but the CdV format was still around until 1900 at least - the cabinet card was introduced in the 1870s but did not supplant the CdV by any means. I have hundreds of CdVs that show otherwise ;)
I even have some continental (mainly French and Dutch) CdVs from the 1910s.
I have to say that I have never seen any as late as WW1/1920s but that's not to say it's impossible, however the postcard and other formats had definitely all but taken over by that time.
Cheers
Prue
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Hi Prue,this one I am told is after 1912 according to the uniform.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,572983.0.html
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This why I'm confused. Another knowledgeable enthusiast informed me this was definitely a carte de visite and that they had all but disappeared by the 1900s and yet the young woman's clothing seems to be of a later date. If it is from a later date then yes, she is quite possibly my maternal grandmother. If it's from an earlier period then it must be another member of the Harrington family. There are no other pictures of my grandmother as she died in 1939 when my mum was only 13. The family were very hard up and photography wasn't top of anyone's list of priorities.
I know absolutely nothing about old photography :( so I'm having to go by other people's expertise
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I should also mention that as far as I know there was nothing on the back of the original. However, I also don't know how many times my copy had been copied before it was sent to me. Mine may be a copy of the original or a copy of a copy
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OK.Lets clear this up.This woman's dress & hairstyle is late WW1 to around 1920.It can't be any earlier than this as women didn't dress this way prior to these dates.
I don't see how your "enthusiast" can tell whether this is a CdeV or cabinet card without seeing the original as the differnce is in the size & thickness.It's more likely to be a cabinet card as these were the norm at this time.
There were a number of old photographic techniques still around but they weren't considered mainstream by portrait photographers.
You have to go on her dress style.
jim
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Oh yes, you definitely have to go by what she's wearing/her hair - I was just saying that CdVs were around later than the 1870s, is all ;)
And Jillie, Jim's right - you would only be able to tell the difference between scans of a CdV and a Cabinet Card if you knew what size the original was, because they essentially look the same :) Added: you could also tell by the ratio of width to height if you had a scan of the entirety of the card, but you don't, so that route is out (for interest's sake, a Cabinet Card is 4.5 x 6.5 inches = 1:1.4; a CdV is 2.5 x 4 = 1:1.6).
Sorry, we are getting into semantics a little bit on your thread, but only because your photo is an intriguing one!
Cheers
Prue
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Exactly, Prue, I was going to say that there is a ratio between the two sides that can usually indicate a cabinet card vs. a carte de visite. That said, I've heard that cartes de visites, while exceedingly rare after 1900, did indeed exist up to the 1920s or so. I think this can be chalked up to old photographers who either didn't have the money to update their equipment or didn't want to - the same way that there are film and Polaroid enthusiasts. It's an unusual carte de visite, but not impossible.
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Sorry, we are getting into semantics a little bit on your thread, but only because your photo is an intriguing one!
Cheers
Prue
No, don't apologise. I'm learning all the time. I'm just finding it a little frustrating that I don't have the original which would, I imagine, have told me so much more. I've got a couple of others photos of different Harrington's which were also sent. Same problem though - copies of copies. They've been labelled as the same person although I'm not convinced.
I've been in touch with Jayne Shrimpton who has told me she can date the clothing to an accuracy of 5 to 8 years for "Mary Harrington" so I'm awaiting her report.
Should be interesting :D ;D
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Jayne Shrimpton has just got back to me. Apparently,
"the sides brought forward in front of her ears and the length pinned back behind into a chignon. This style was in vogue broadly between 1916 and 1924 but is most typical of the years 1918-1922.................A young woman, she was probably born around the turn of the 20th century and this photograph may well have been her 21st birthday portrait"
So there you have it. My grandmother was born in 1898 and her 21st birthday would have been in 1919. I can't conclusively say that the lady is my grandmother but there is no other Harrington female who fits into this time frame
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This woman's dress & hairstyle is late WW1 to around 1920.
Who needs Jayne Shrimpton when you've got Jim (and China and the rest of us)? ;D
Glad it has been sorted out, still intrigued by the apparent format of the photo and card, but there will always be the odd ones to prove the exceptions to the rule. :)
Cheers
Prue
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Who needs Jayne Shrimpton when you've got Jim (and China and the rest of us)? ;D
Cheers
Prue
Ah, but you got there first and Jayne only confirmed what you lot already knew ;D :D
AND since you lot are so good can you give me some idea on the boys pictures I've posted