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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cambridgeshire => Topic started by: Jill123 on Monday 26 December 11 13:37 GMT (UK)
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Hello.
Can anybody help me please? I am trying to find details of my ancestor's time in the above workhouse. I found him in the Union Workhouse on the 1871 census but shortly afterwards he had committed suicide by cutting his throat on Midsummer Common in Cambridge. I have found out all about his early life spent in The Hussars in India but would like to find out about his time in this workhouse. For example when and why was he admitted. He was discharged from the 15th Hussars in 1857 but I can't find him on the 1861 census. Are there workhouse records anywhere online?
His name was Anderson Marsh b 1822 Cambridge. He died 1 May 1871 in Addenbrooks Hospital. Does anyody know where he would have been buried? The workhouse cemetery? Addenbrooks cemetery?
Thanking you in advance.
Jill
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Some Records are held by Cambridge Archives and Local Studies, see http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Cambridge/
Stan
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Thankyou for replying so quickly, Stan, but I was hoping some Workhouse records would be available online as I live in Cornwall and it's virtually impossible for me to visit Cambridge Archives in person.
Jill
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Hi, Jill,
The Union Workhouse, now known as Ditchburn Place, is actually in Mill Road. I looked up something from their records at the CCRO a while ago, but once all this holiday shutdown is over I could go up to Castle Hill and have a look for you...
regards, keith
p.s. Sounds like an interesting case, might have also been something about his demise in the Cambridge Chronicle of the time...
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Hello Keith,
I would be most grateful if you could go up to the CCRO and check out the workhouse records for me whenever you get time.
I already have The Cambridge Chronicle reportage of Anderson Marsh's inquest dated 6 May 1871, and also his discharge papers from The 15th Hussars. I've discovered that it was unusual for a man to serve for so long in India (Anderson was nine and a half years in Bangalore) and he may have become mentally unstable there as he was quoted in the Chronicle's inquest report as having had 'sunstroke' twice and was 'quite out of his mind'. It also states that 'For the last two or three years he had been in the workhouse, occasionally coming out to see his father. However his father had died eight weeks ago'. Also, just before he died it states he seemed 'dazed'. Was this workhouse also a 'home' for the mentally ill do you think? And did servicemen receive a pension upon discharge?
Sorry to lumber you with so many questions but I feel so sorry for the poor man (he was the brother of my 3 x great grandma, and I found out that he used a razor to cut his throat on Midsummer Common - ugh!) and I would like to find out as much about his sad life as I can. He never married.
Thanks again for your kindly reply and offer of help.
Regards,
Jill
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Hi Jill,
The burial of Anderson Marsh appears in the parish register of St. Benedict's Church, Cambridge (commonly known as St. Bene't's). This church is in the centre of Cambridge was often used for people dying in Addenbrooke's Hospital (the old Addenbrooke's was nearby) and so does not indicate the parish wherein they normally resided.
His burial took place on 5th May 1871, Anderson Marsh of Addenbrooke's Hospital 49.
I would think he was almost certainly buried in the St. Benedict's section of Mill Road Cemetery and you can see this on http://www.millroadcemetery.org.uk/MillRoadCemetery/Home.aspx
Click on 13 Parishes and the trustees on the left for the map.
Regards,
Selina
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Oh wow! That's great, Selina. Thanks so much for this info. I never thought I'd find out any more about him after finding his inquest report. Do you think he'd be buried in a 'christian' cemetery considering he was a suicide? It's making me even more determined to try to find his grave and, hopefully, put some flowers on it one day in the future perhaps.
Thanks again.
Jill
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I see your point about burial. Can't think where else he would be. However if he was judged to be of unsound mind surely that would entitle him to a Christian burial?
There is no note in parish register that he was buried in unconsecrated ground.
Selina
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Jill and Selina,
When I get up to the CCRO I'll have a look in their book of interrals in the Mill Road Cemetery, and see where exactly in the St Benedict's (St Bene't's) section Anderson Marsh is buried. The cemetery is just down the road from Ditchburn Place and from where I live, so I'll see if there's any headstone there. Though there's been quite a bit of vandalism in the cemetery recently, I'm afraid...
keith
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Keith and Selina - thank you both once again. Anderson and I appreciate your help! I look forward to hear if you're successful in your searches at the CCRO, Keith. Shame about the vandalism though.
Best wishes,
Jill
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Jill,
Like a lot of places, the CCRO is not open till Tuesday January 3rd, 2012. Will get up there soon afterwards with my pencil and notebook, and hopefully find something to photocopy too...
keith
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Keith - I can't see a M.I. for him at Mill Road in the transcript of M.I's for City.
It would be nice if you can find out if he was definitely buried there.
Selina
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Selina,
I should be able to find a grave number and its exact location, but whether Anderson was given a headstone is another matter. And I haven't had much luck recently looking for graves in the Mill Road Cemetery that are supposed to be there. But we'll see!
regards, keith
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Jill.
As promised, have been up to the CCRO today, and found a bundle of documents that I don't think had been re-opened since they were last looked at in 1861. Some really rather interesting details, but I've only just come in and it's late, so I'll tell you all about it tomorrow - though I do have a U3A course to go to in the morning, and a funeral in the afternoon...
regards, keith
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Keith, that's fine - you take whatever time you need before telling me the details........although that old bundle sounds REALLY intriguing! Here's hoping.......
Many thanks.
Jill
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Phew! Jill, yesterday was an unusually busy day for me, but let me try and make sense of my notes...
At first I got hold of a bundle of reports and letters from early 1861, and I thought I might possibly be able to photocopy, but there was so much of it, and some of the folds were quite fragile, so I read and made notes - the reference for the bundle is: G/C/AS 37A by the way...
So, all the correspondence was between The Churchwardens Overseers of the Poor for the Parish of St Giles without Cripplegate and, I think, the Overseers of the Cambridge Union, in that they were trying to work out where Anderson MARSH should be settled, or which Parish was responsible for him in Cambridge when he was moved from London.
He is already being referred to as incapable and as a "lunatic", and the problem was which Cambridge parish, Holy Trinity or St Mary's The Great was responsible financially for him. It all hinged on his father James MARSH, a cabinet maker, who when apprenticed to a Thomas CHANDLER on 20th November 1802 (Thomas living at The White Swan, Petty Cury) did not stay/live with his master in that parish, i.e. St Mary's the Great, for the obligatory 40 days during his apprenticeship, but lived in King Street with his father and widowed mother - I've just re-read this, and of course this doesn't make any sense, I must have missed some vital punctuation, or misread something. However, the whole point is that they weren't sure which parish Anderson should be settled in!
As the churches are within spitting distance of one another near the market place, and that the workhouse had become a union of at least these two parishes, people seemed to be spitting feathers in this correspondence over not a great deal. Now, looking in the Minutes of the Cambridge Union, there are almost weekly references to this dispute...more anon...
keith
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...continuing...
From the Minutes Book of the Cambridge Union Workhouse:
8th February 1861: "Clerk presented order of Removal from the Parish of St Giles Cripplegate to St Mary The Great"
13th Feb: "Clerk reported that this pauper not settled in St Mary The Great..."
20th Feb: "Clerk presented grounds of appeal..."
27 Feb: another comment about procedure
13th March: "St Giles Cripplegate had heard that the Almshouse in which pauper's father lived whilst serving his apprenticeship was situate in the Parish of Holy Trinity, and proposing to abandon order without costs."
Further entries for 20th March and 17th April continue the saga/melodrama until on 24th April there is a direction for removal from St Giles Cripplegate.
One can only imagine how Anderson MARSH was brought from London the 60 miles or so to Cambridge. The final entry, on 29th May 1861, before he completely vanishes from view (and I did look also in the Minutes Book for 1871, but no reference to him at all, sadly):
"Ordered that the cheque for 13s/6d be issued in payment of the account for relief to this pauper under removal order. Cheque to John Lee Esq.
For each of the entries referring to Anderson MARSH his name appeared in the left-hand margin.
And I did notice in the Holy Trinity burials: James MARSH aged 81 of King Street, buried 3rd Feb 1871; and Ann MARSH aged 72 of King Street, buried 8th September 1863.
But as you say, it looks as though the death of his father James might have precipitated Anderson MARSH's desperate actions in May that year.
Looked in the 1861 Census for Cambridge, and James and Ann are indeed there at 67, King Street, but I was as unsuccessful as you at spotting their son Anderson in London - I have come across institutionalised individuals being represented only by their initials, though, so perhaps some kind of search for that might half-reveal him.
Sorry if it's been a bit gobbledegook at times - I'm not a very efficient note taker!
Regards, keith
p.s. Forgot to mention that I looked in the Mill Road Cemetery book, and there is no record for an Anderson MARSH interral, under St Bene't's, or any other parish burial plot...
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Keith, thankyou so much for all your hard work. This is all absolutely fascinating - and not just about Anderson. You see, I have also been stuck at a brick wall for many years as to the origins of his father, James Marsh, so your new info will hopefully provide a breakthrough with him too. I have a tenuous note that James' mother's name was 'Mary' - I don't suppose you made a note of his parents' names, did you? And have you any idea where Petty Cury is? As that might help in finding a clue to the birth place of James. I have been in contact with the main Marsh groups who's Marsh ancestors lived in the surrounding villages (I even had my mtDNA taken!) but my Marshes aren't kin to them, unless very far back. The birth place of James and his parents might help in this (and no, I'm not asking you to do further searches!)
And poor Anderson - probably already a lunatic when he was discharged from the army in 1857. I shall have a snoop around the London records online to see if I can find him before he was transferred to Cambridge. Shame we didn't find his burial place..........yet! I'm ever hopeful!
Once again, thank you so much for all your help - it is VERY much appreciated.
Best wishes,
Jill
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Jill,
Petty Cury is right in the Centre of Cambridge and was unfortunately re-developed in the early 1970's. It had become a bit of a slum in Victorian times, too, but a great many of the old pubs, including the White Swan were swept away. An indoor shopping precinct there is called Lion Yard, after a pub called the Red Lion - there are quite a few books about with photos of many of the Cambridge pubs there that have disappeared.
Also, there are apprentice records (I think they have a copy for the Cambridgeshire ones at the CCRO), so perhaps there will be more details of James MARSH's commitment to Thomas CHANDLER on 20th November 1802. I'll look next time I'm there.
Furthermore, I've noted down a date given for Anderson MARSH's birth, which was given amongst all those papers as "May 1827", but this rather contradicts the 1822 birth that you have for him, based on his age being given as 49 when he died in 1871, perhaps...
keith
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Keith, thanks for the offer to check the apprentice records at CRO - I wasn't 'fishing' honest! Thanks also for putting me straight about Petty Cury.
I think Anderson was born in abt 1822 because I found his bapt record on FindMyPast some time ago, stating he was bpt 18 May 1823 aged 12 mths.
Re his 'lunacy', I don't think it was caused by syphilis or anothe VD, do you? (he was unmarried and was a long-time soldier remember!) as see below his discharge papers....
The discharge papers for Anderson Marsh (1822-1871) include the following information.
WO97/1293
Anderson Marsh, a cabinet maker of Cambridge, enlisted in the 15th Hussars in London on 24th June, 1843. He was 21 years old. He was an enlisted soldier for just over 13 years, with nine and a half years stationed at Bangalore, East India.
He was dischargedon 7th April, 1857, suffering from a ruptured right groin, resulting from his long service in the military. The medical report specifies that the injury "has not been aggravated by vice".
In spite of his length of service, Anderson Marsh is described as follows in his discharge papers:
"His conduct has been that of an indifferent soldier, and is not in possession of a distinguishing mark".
...... he didn't sound a very good soldier!
Jill
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Jill,
Oh dear! It's a pity too that we can't so far find any details of any campaigns he might have been involved in in India. One of my SHERWOOD family was discharged from the army in the early 19thC due to his constant drunk and disorderly behaviour...
Glad to hear that his birthdate is fairly set in stone - must have been an ill-informed piece of info that I came across. Will certainly have a peek in those apprentice records, though, for 1802, when next I'm in Shire Hall.
You're certainly building up a kaleidoscopic picture of your man in question!
keith