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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: hasta on Wednesday 21 December 11 00:57 GMT (UK)
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This is slightly messy so do be warned !
I am looking for Thomas Brophy. Born Dublin City, married in Blackrock, returned to the city with his brood in 1895.
I have his marriage cert which indicates a birth of 1864, and his death cert which indicates a birth of 1866. I'm more comfortable with 1864 as that leaves him old enough to marry when he did. (1886 ) Parents names are Michael Brophy and Anne.
Now, despite endless searching, I can't find a birth of a Thomas Brophy in the right time frame to a Michael Brophy and Anne.
But I do find one for a Michael Brophy and Eliza Heavy/Heasy (1864- St Pauls on RootsIreland)
They have Thomas, 15 June 1864 and a Female on 18 Oct 1866, and then they seem to just disappear.
Then I found records for a Michael Brophy and Anne Fitzpatrick having 2 girls baptised at St Marys Pro. Mary Anne in 1870 and Bridget in 1873.
(this is the correct area I would expect all the members of this side of the family to be living at)
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/d31c980194683
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/52b0e60112581
The reason I am particularly interested in this family (apart from the parents names) is that I later find a very bizarre address coincidence between this Mary Anne Brophy and the Thomas Brophy born 1864-66 that I am searching for.
So my thoughts are that Michael marries Eliza Heavy, has 2 children, my Thomas and an unnamed girl, then Eliza dies sometime around 1866, and by 1870 when Mary Anne Brophy is born he has remarried to Anne Fitzpatrick and goes on to have the 2 girls.
Trouble is, I can't find a death record for Eliza Heavy/Brophy. Nor a Marriage for Michael Brophy and Anne Fitzpatrick, and despite the births of the 2 girls, Michael Brophy and Anne Fitzpatrick seem to disappear as well.
I know this may seem a bit far fetched but I have the exact same scenario on the other side of the family and had the census's not recorded it I would never have made the connection.
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P.S I meant to add. Has anyone got any advice on how I can proceed - forward, backward, horizontal I'm open to any ideas. !
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A general search at: www.glasnevintrust.ie
shows an Eliza Brophy, age 34, buried at Glasnevin in 1868.
This seems to be the only plausible one there within your time-frame, but it was not a very unusual name as there were a couple of infants of that name buried within a couple of years around that time. This included a child of 6 months within the same year. Both have extended records available (possibbly the same one?).
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Hiya
Just a few theory's LOL !
Are you talking about the Thomas Brophy in Sherrif Street in 1901 ?
If so he was married to Mary Shannon - is that right ?
If so the godmother at Kathleen Brophy's baptism was a Sarah Brophy (a possible sister of Thomas ?)
Anyway I saw this - and maybe Anna was short for Anastasia ? Long shot I know !
SARAH BROPHY
15 January 1878
ISLAND BRIDGE
Father MICHAEL BROPHY
Mother ANASTATIA FETHERSTONE
You then mentioned Mary Anne Brophy - The address connection (is she the one living in Sherrif Place ?)
If so she is actually Mary Anne Mc Court / Mc Cartt / Mc Carthy (spelt differently on a few different documents).
She married John Brophy. This John Brophy's father was a Patrick Brophy.
Am not sure if any of this will help or confuse you more - hopefully not the latter !
Tara
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Eliza Brophy, 34, buried in Glasnevin 1868
the address seems to contain "33" "south" "william" "st" .. (check this for yourself to be sure)
this may help to confirm, (or muddy the waters further! since this is southside)
eadaoin
edit: it looks as if the 2 baby Eliza(beth)s may be from Clarendon Market and Drury Lane
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Cheers eadoin - I'm getting a bit desperate here so I bit the bullet and forked out a tenner - You are spot on -
BROPHY ELIZA
Last address: 33 SOUTH WILLIAM ST
Date of death 09 Feb 1868
Age 34
BROPHY WILLIAM
Last address: 3 COPPINGERS ROW
Date of death 07 Jul 1872
Age 9M
BROPHY WILLIAM
Last address: 41 CLARENDON ST
Date of death 15 Dec 1867
Age 5
BROPHY ELIZA
Last address: 10 DRURY LANE
Date of death 07 Aug 1868
Age 6M
BROPHY ANASTATIA
Last address: 3 COPPINGERS ROW
Date of death 08 Dec 1870
Age 1M
Without realising it both DudleyWinchurch and taramcdsmall (cheers) have sent me in the same direction.
Michael Brophy/Anantasia Fetherston.
The record for Willliam (9 M) mentions them as parents I had previously done some work on them and dropped it mostly because the didn't marry until 1868
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/fc83020441271 so I need to go back on what else I found on them. (I'm a terrible record keeper but I seem to remember about 7 children)
Either 2 of the children (born after July 1868) don't belong to them or they have had illegitimate children. Pity there is no informant for the other 3 children. Maybe I'll call Glasnevin and see if they have anything to add.
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Hey Adee101
Do you think Anastasia is the "Anna" that you are looking for as if you look back on irishgenealogy on some of the births of her children with Michael Brophy she refers to herself as Anna.
Also if you look at the birth of the Eliza (that you think is a sister to Thomas) well look at the sponsor
Name ELIZABETH BROPHY
DOB 1866
Address 2 CHATHAM MARKET
Father MICHAEL BROPHY
Mother ELIZA KEANEY
Sponsor 1 WILLIAM COFFEY
Sponsor 2 ANASTASIA GETHERSTAN (This was mistranscribed is actually Fetherston)
It looks like Michael had Thomas and Eliza with his first wife. Anastasia was maybe a friend of the family and he married her after his first wife died.
Michael Brophy & Anastasia's marriage is on irishgenealogy in 1868 in St. Andrew's !
Tara
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not sure if you have seen this one but this looks like Mary Anne's marriage especially as a Brigid Brophy is a witness
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ipd/
There are also two children listed on Irish Genealogy:
William bap 1896 and Michael bap 1897
1901 census - I can't see an obvious family
1911 census they are still on Tyrone St:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Tyrone_St__Upper/29591/
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Adee, I'm following this thread! So everyone knows, Adee and I are acquainted with each other through that Brophy/Shannon marriage and she got me involved to drive me crazy on the ancestry of Thomas Brophy! Anyway, I have to give some serious wondering to that Michael Brophy/Eliza possibility. It would track quite well, with a very young Thomas losing his mother and his father remarrying, with young Thomas really only knowing an Ann as a mother, so either Anne Featherstone or Anne Fitzpatrick. I think one thing we need to do is get the marriage of Michael Brophy and Anna Featherstone. It will tell us if he was a widower or a bachelor at the time of the marriage. If widower, we keep him in the mix, if a bachelor, we put him on the back burner. If we could find the Brophy/Fitzpatrick marriage, I'd say the same, get it and see if Michael was a widower.
Good horizontal thinking, everyone!
Cindy Wood
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BROPHY WILLIAM
Last address: 3 COPPINGERS ROW
Date of death 07 Jul 1872
Age 9M
This is a son of Michael Brophy and Anastasia Fetherstone.
BROPHY ELIZA
Last address: 10 DRURY LANE
Date of death 07 Aug 1868
Age 6M
Her parents were Patrick Brophy and Eliza Kinsella.
BROPHY ANASTATIA
Last address: 3 COPPINGERS ROW
Date of death 08 Dec 1870
Age 1M
Another child of Michael Brophy and Anastasia Fetherstone.
Adee, the children we found for the Brophy/Festherstone marriage and the address at their birth are:
Mary, 1869, Clarendon Street
Anastasia, 1870, Coppinger's Row
William, 1871 Coppinger's Row
Catherine 1873, Coppingers Row
Michael 1875, in Island Bridge
Sarah, 1878, in Mary's Lane
Elizabeth, 1880 Island Bridge
The more I look at it, the more I like the possibility of Anastasia Fetherstone actually being the stepmother of Thomas. If nothing else, we keep circling back to this couple and there has to be a reason for that! Michael Brophy and Anastasia Fetherstone married on 9 July 1868. If Eliza was his first wife, he did not wait long to remarry, again, maybe a necessity if he had small children. Does the burial record of that Eliza Brophy in 1868 reveal any additional information?
Cindy
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Hi Cindy,
I think it would be one VERY BIG coincidence if Anna(stasia) wasn't the stepmother of Thomas. She was even the godmother at Thomas's sister's baptism.
It was not strange for a widowed man with young children to get remarried very quickly.
In saying that I think the marriage cert to Anastasia would need to be ordered to put everyone's mind at ease !
Good Luck !
Tara
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Tara, that would be correct, IF we knew that the Michael/Eliza couple were the parents of Thomas. All we currently have to go on is the church record of the marriage that lists Thomas' parents as Michael and Ann! It will be a big boost if the marriage cert for Michael and Anastasia showed he was a widower, and in my mind would just about seal the deal. But I have to agree, right now I am leaning to the scenario that Ann was his stepmother. I don't believe a big amount in divine intervention in genealogy (despite what my mum said!) but there has to be a reason why Adee and I keep winding back up at the Brophy/Fetherstone couple!
Cindy
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Hi All - and Cindy, I'm laughing my head off. I just switched on the lap top to reply to this now (sorry, have been super busy over Xmas) and there you are !! Is there no hiding ? :)
I was 100% positive on Anastasia Featherston after seeing the record that Tara posted on Elizabeth's birth. (Thanks !)
I had never seen that version before, just the FamilySearch version with only Eliza Heavy's name listed - I was pretty gobsmacked by that. (also that William Coffey crops up again as an informant to one of Anastasia's children later)
I was able to put this whole scenario to an older Brophy's over Christmas and he was not fazed at all and claims to clearly remember hearing Anastasia Featherston's name mentioned before.
So, I will of course get certs when the Office opens up again, but all the info fits perfectly. The only disparity I found earlier was the little Eliza in Glasnevin - (6M) seemed to be one Eliza too much. But if she is Patrick Brophy's child then that makes absolutely EVERYTHING fit into place.
As I said, I had completely dumped this line of inquiry, in favour of the Fitzpatrick lady - but could get no further and was hoping for a fresh perspective on it all - and sure enough I got it in spades. !!! So thanks to everyone who spent time looking (I know only to well - the time involved)
I found that Anne FitzP her husband Michael B and daughter Bridget were all deceased by 1910. (Typhoid) but still have an inkling that there may well be some connection there - so will keep them in the loop for now.
I did a little more digging before Xmas and it seems Michael Brophy died in the North Dublin Union Workhouse in 1894 from TB. So, not all happy there either.
And Cindy, Re: Eliza d.1868. No - all but one of the Glasnevin Records are single page with very little info.
If the certs do not show that Michael Brophy was a widower, when I get them I will eat my hat !!! I will let you know.
Thanks again everyone and a very Happy New Year.
:)
@Cindy - I tried to find you some Shannon info over Xmas - but just got a few anecdotes and a couple of possible names in the younger generation - Will mail you.
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Adee, you actually have my friend Louise in Stepaside to thank! I'd been talking with her way back in the beginning (before you, even) about the Brophy/Shannon marriage and when we were talking today, she mentioned this whole thread! Imagine MY surprise when I signed on to Rootschat and discovered it was you!! It all falls into the small world category as Louise will no doubt tell you!
C
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If the certs do not show that Michael Brophy was a widower, when I get them I will eat my hat !!! I will let you know.
So, just an update on what happened next !
I got the marriage cert of Michael Brophy and Anastasia Fatherston - which we believe to be his second marriage, but the rogue says he is a Batchelor and not a Widower!!
However by chance I came across this badly transcribed record of the marriage that had a photo of the actual register
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/e8274d0024277
and I noticed some words on the Observations section in Latin (Vir antea nuptus fuit) - Graham on the Handwriting Board translated it to say ' He has been married before" So thanks to a nosey priest we have a result.
Thanks everyone. Having earlier completely discounted Anastasia as the second wife I doubt I would have gone back over that ground without your excellent information.
Cheers.
A.
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RESULT !
Well done you Adee on your perseverance when many others would have given up - congrats !
Tara