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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: miked86 on Monday 19 December 11 15:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
I hope someone might be able to help. My 3xgreat grandma was born in Halifax, NS around 1857-1864.
She moved to England around 1878 and I have plenty of information on her from this period but I want to find more about her life in Canada including info on her parents.
I can't seem to find record of her in any census but I know she lived on Agricola Street in Halifax at time of marriage in 1875.
I will try and manually search but I have no idea which enumeration district Agricola Street comes under.
The info I have so far is she was born Mary Shea and married Joseph France on 2 Oct 1875 in Halifax. Her parents are listed as Thomas (a barber) and Mary. Her age is given as 22 given birth year around 1855.
In the 1881 & 1891 UK census she her year of birth is given as 1859.
In 1901 her year of birth is given as 1860 and 1862 according to 1911 census.
She then remarried in 1919 with her age recorded as 56 giving birth year as 1863 at this point her father is listed as deceased but occupation is farmer.
Can anyone suggest any way of looking up a record of her birth ie baptism for around these times as I'm not very clued up on records available in Canada.
Thanks and regards,
Michael
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Hi Mike,
If you know where she was born, you may want to check the parish records and newspaper notices in that area.
JDC
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Many thanks. She was from Halifax. Do you know if these are searchable online as I live in uk?
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Perhaps it's a coincidence, but living on Agricola in 1875 was
Francis Joseph J, policeman, h 93 Agricola
Also living at that address were
Lorenzo Francis, carriage painter
Welton Francis, machinist
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0inq/
Could his surname have been Francis?
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Hi Lisa,
Thanks for that.
I've just checked 1871 & 1881 census for Joseph J Francis and he appears on both so I'd guess its not him. JJ Francis is from England so maybe my ancestor lived with him as he became a policeman after leaving the army and I'd guess would have lived at a barracks while in the army.
I've been able to narrow down which ward I believe Agricola Street is in though no so many thanks for your help.
Kind regards,
Michael Davies
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You can check for information on bmd's at
www.novascotiagenealogy.com
The marriage of Mary Shea and Joseph France is listed and he is a Sgt in a battalion in Halifax.
You can also view the 1881 and 1891 census at
www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/index-e.html
the 1901 and 1911 census is available at
http://automatedgenealogy.com
There are several Shea's listed and I think I found Thomas and Mary in 1881 but not later. In 1881, he is 68 and she is 60. They are Roman Catholic and of Irish descent.
There is a Mary Shea in the 1911 census age 80/81 that could be a possible.
Records are not complete for the time period you are searching and it may be very hard to find a birth for Mary at this site but if she was Catholic, you may be able to find something for a baptism. I haven't found any other siblings for her but if they were older, birth records won't be available. At the site that I gave above for bmd's, I would put in last name Shea, under the county put in Halifax and search all the early records to see if you can find someone with parents Thomas and Mary. You may find something under the marriage section. The site will give you the list of years that are available, you will note that several years are missing.
I will look for some more sites that may help you.
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Hi Valerie,
Thanks for info. I've searched the records for possible brothers on the site already and come up with nothing. Mary moved to England around 1878 so any appearance on the Canadian census at a later date is no match.
Thanks for the message.
Regards,
Michael
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Valerie means the MOTHER Mary
Although not in Ward five, if both alive in 1881 then that would be the only Mary with a Thomas in 1881
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/Census/household_record.asp?HOUSEHOLD_CODE=1881CN_108384
There is this one who says married but not with wife, bon 1841...http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/Census/household_record.asp?HOUSEHOLD_CODE=1881CN_107073
No barber listed 1870 http://www.ourroots.ca/e/page.aspx?id=279554
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The Mary that I referred to was a possible match for her mother.
I think the Mary that I found in 1911 is the widow of a John or Patrck Shea and not Thomas.
It does appear that quite a few Shea's appear in the poor house records.
The couple that I found in 1881 has Thomas occupation as labourer and they were living in Ward 4, District 9, city of Halifax and it doesn't give a street.
You can access McAlpine's and Hutchesons City Directories for Halifax through the site at Collection Canada or try and internet search for Canadian Directories - Who Was Where.
McAlpines directory 1881 Halifax
has
Shea, Thomas - custom Boot and Shoemaker, 53 Barrington St., Home - Argyle St
Shea, Thomas - night watchman, 5 Lower Water St
Shea, Thomas - labourer, h. 199 Albermarle St
Shea, Thomas - tinsmith, h. Richmond St
When you go to the census info, almost all of the Shea's are RC and originate from irish origins. The library in Halifax may be able to give you info on how to find the most likely RC church in this area of Halifax. All of these streets are in the same area of Halifax, close to the harbour.
It is entirely possible that they moved accomodations often. There isn't any census information readly available before 1881 so looking through all the bmd's for a connection to Thomas and Mary may be the only way to find any info on your Mary Shea's siblings.
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Thanks again guys. Sorry for misunderstanding Valerie. I've checked all available bmds and no match. The poorhouse thing could be a possibility. Thanks for the advice. Thought the mcalpines may have helped solved it. I'll look into RC church because as you say the Shea's most likely were.
Regards,
Michael
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Reg Year 1876 Book 1811 page 201 Number 1236
Birth 25 December 1876
Emily France
930 or ?30 Agricola St
Father - Joseph France, Policemean
Mother - Mary Shea
I can't make out the informant's name
The minister at the marriage of Joseph France and Mary Shea was a Rev. ? C Cockran/Cochran/Cochrane - It was hard to make out.
Is it possible that the Agricola Street address was for Joseph France and not Thomas/Mary Shea?
Is it possible that Thomas and Mary may have gone to where Mary and her husband Joseph settled.
The most common Anglican church in the area of Agricola St would have been St. Paul's Anglican church but I still haven't found a connection for the marriage at that church. They do have an online site and may be able to answer questions if you contact them.
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It looks to be either J.C. Cohrane or I.C. Cochrane in some signatures... but there are references to a J.C. Cohrane/Cochran so likely the right one and Anglican-( free pew) Trinity Church http://www.trinityhalifax.ca/index_files/Page1455.htm
If the right reverend ( ;D ) He was just retired that year..and elderly http://biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?id_nbr=4904
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I went back to view the birth registration for Emily and it definitely states 93 Agricola St.
I went to the McAlpines Directory for 1874-75 to see if I could find them listed. The names for 93 Agricola is Joseph J Francis, policeman and Charles H. Francis, brass moulder. Same names through to 1880/81. Then Joseph J. Francis is at Bedford Row.
I am trying to find this particular Joseph on the census to determine if this could be the husband of Mary Shea or the father of Joseph France.
No Shea surname on Agricola St in any of McAlpines that I have checked.
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I can't find any relation between the Joseph Francis, police sergeant and Joseph France, policeman. It leads me to think that Joseph and his wife Mary probably lived (boarded) with the older Joseph Francis and his family at 93 Agricola. I did go through the McAlpine directory looking for Mary's parents Thomas and Mary Shea and didn't find anything conclusive.
If when she remarried, she stated that her father was a farmer that is a far cry from a barber when she married. On her marriage registration, it has her place of residence as Halifax but doesn't list a place of birth that I could see. Joseph France listed his place of residence as Halifax and his place of birth as Lancashire?
I can't find a death or burial for Thomas or Mary Shea. I checked the catholic burials in Halifax and came up with nothing. I suppose if they were in the poor house asylum, there may not be a record of burial but I would have thought I might find a death for at least one of them.
Sorry that I haven't been much help
Val
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Thanks JJ and Valerie.
You've been of great help and I'm extremely grateful. Unfortunately this case isn't as simple as I'd have liked it to be.
I've found the birth of Emily which is where I got the Agricola address. Through looking at census and mcalpines I've come to the conclusion he was a boarder with Joseph J Francis. Mr Francis seems in a fairly good position within the police so he may have taken Joseph France under his wing. Boarding with Joseph Francis may suggest Mary's parents could already be deceased at this time.
In the English Census from 1881 onwards Mary's place of birth is consistently given as Halifax, Nova Scotia. I've not pinned down her date of death yet but I'll be at the local library today in search of an obituary and hoepfully some clues.
I've also requested more info on the 87th regiment in Nova Scotia as Joseph met Mary while he was still serving there and may have been some way away from Agricola Street. Agricola is the only locality I have so hoped maybe they'd not have moved far.
Thanks again for your help. I'm determined to crack this but it's going to take some time and the links provided by all have helped to atleast rule certain possibilties out.
If Mary's parents survived I'm not sure if they came to England or not. I've not found any mention of them I'm afraid.
Reagrds,
Michael
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If you can get a map of downtown Halifax, you will see that Agricola St is very close to the Garrison Grounds, York Redoubt and Citadel Hill which would be the area where the battalion would be at. Citadel Hill is just off Brunswick St at the top of the hill overlooking the harbour. I'm not sure where the old police station was in Halifax but the new one is very close to the citadel as well.
From memory so I may miss a street, Brunswick St, Agricola St., Barrington St, Granville St., Hollis St, Bedford Row, Lower Water St are all parallel to the waterfront. (Probably not in the right order) The old post office was on Bedford Row. The navy dockyards are off Barrington St closer to Bedford Basin but within walking distance to downtown Halifax. The navy base Stadacona is located between Barrington and Gottingen Sts. also within walking distance.
I think you should contact the Halifax Library and see what they may have that could help. Also, contact Trinity Anglican church to see if the marriage did take place there. I'm not sure what records they hold but they probably know where the records are if they exist. The church records may be held at the Nova Scotia Archives.
The catholic cemeteries that I checked were Mt Olivet, Heavens Gate and Holy Cross. A lot of Shea's buried there but not Thomas and Mary. I do think the Thomas and Mary Shea on the 1881 census may be the correct ones but then they disappear.
Good luck. Val
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Thanks Val,
You're knowledge is much appreciated. I think you're probably right regarding the 1881 census. Labourer could still mean farm labourer. I don't know Halifax or even Nova Scotia very well but is there or would there have been farm land around at this time?
I think my next step is to do as you say and start contacting Libraries/Archives and Churches.
Many thanks for your help and mostly your time and patience it is greatly appreciated.
Kindest regards,
Michael
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In 1881 downtown Halifax, labourer would probably mean working in warehouses or the docks. that was the main business district of Halifax, where the ships landed, goods taken ashore, etc. Labourer could have meant any type of work that he could get. As a farm labourer, he would have left Halifax for another area and that is why I think they must have moved if he is down as farmer when she remarried.
I found an old post to Genforum that stated that Joseph, May and Emily left Halifax for Ireland where the next child Frances Jane was born in 1878/79. The 87th was the Royal Irish Fusiliers if my history is correct. Do you know where she was born in Northern Ireland as I can't find her birth?
I would look at Ancestry for incoming passenger lists to Great Britain for the time period 1876-1881 to see if Thomas and Mary Shea went to join them in either Ireland or England.
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http://halifax.ca/Police/AboutHRP/history.html
Interesting info about the history of the police in Halifax. It gives the old police station as being in the basement of a building on Lower Water Street.
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Thanks Valerie. I think she was born in Dublin, Republic of Ireland. I don't think Jospeh was still in the army at this point as he is later listed as a policeman while still in Canada. I've got a researcher to send me Josephs muster rolls for his time with the 87th. I'll probably receive them in the new year now. This will indicate when exactly he left the army. I think Thomas probably did any job available as barber and farmer are two very different professions.
I've checked passenger lists and no conclusive evidence can be taken from these. Mary remarried in 1919 and at this point Thomas is decease. Do you know if the Canadian registration would indicate if Thomas was already dead by the time she married in 1875?
Thanks,
Michael
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I made a mistake about where Agricola Street was located. it is in the north end of Halifax on the other side of the commons so away from the main downtown core and likely more residential. It runs parallel to Robie and Gottingen Street and ends at the Halifax Commons. It is still within walking distance to the downtown. I was thinking about Argyle St which is nearer to the citadel and the waterfront.
I should never post from memory.
Have a great Christmas and good luck with your search.
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It didn't state on the registration that he was deceased but a barber so I would assume he was alive at that point.
It is very possible if there were no other siblings, they ended up in the poor house asylum. If so, I am not sure how accurate the records would be. It would be hard to find a burial I would think. I have never researched these records. The other possible is that they are transcribed incorrectly at the bmd site or died during the period that is missing.
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www.novascotiagenealogy.com
deaths
1864-1877 and 1908-1960
city of Halifax 1890-1960
There is a definite gap from 1878-1890 and it is definitely possible that Thomas and Mary Shea died in that time period as they show as age 68 and 60 in the 1881 census.
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Thanks for the info on the police. I've followed a link on the site and requested a search of police records for this time. Hoefully this with the results of service records will give me a good idea of Joseph's whereabouts while in Canada and inturn may give me an idea of when/where he could have possibly met Mary.
Thanks and regards,
Michael
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Yes the gaps in the registration have not really worked in my favour. Mary was born a matter of years before births were registered.
I'll hopefully be able to piece it together in time.
Regards,
Michael