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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: nova63 on Saturday 17 December 11 05:00 GMT (UK)
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I'm trying to find out how my GG Grandmother, Elizabeth Christie, was connected to David Livingstone. Her marriageannouncement describes her as being his niece. She cannot be his niece, but there is clearly some family connection.
The name Livingstone his used quite a bit in her decendents, as well as her brother's.
My current theory is that her aunt may have been married to David Livingstone's nephew. Her mother's name was Janet McKenzie, and his nephew was married to a Sarah McKenzie. Their ages would fit them being sisters, and their marriage records have them both being from the same part of Glasgow. Sarah and her husband, John Livingstone, went to Canada shortly after Janet and her husband went to Australia in 1839.
I have been unable to find any other connection between Janet and Sarah and I don't know if I'm on the completely wrong track.
If anyone has any knowledge of the Livingstone family that could help it would be much appreciated.
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Hi :)
Have you seen this to see if any of your ancestors are listed:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~swilson/livingstone/livingstone.htm
gnu
Bit more ~
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~swilson/livingstone/index.htm
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Yes, that's where I found Sarah McKenzie- but there is no information on her family- or at least I didn't find it.
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I can't see much more - can you give some locations and dates of your ancestors in Scotland - what you've found so far.
gnu
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I've found very little so far. Unfortunately Janet McKenzie died only a few years after arriving in Australia and there is no death certificate- only a burial record. I believe she may also have been known as Jessie.
I know that she was married to Robert Christie in Glasgow (Hutchesontown) in 1834 , they had three children in Scotland and then one more in Australia before her death. Sarah was married in 1835.
Janet went to Australia in 1839, I think Sarah went to Canada in about 1840.
I really have no idea that Sarah McKenzie is the connection, its just a guess but its the only lead I have.
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Are these your family and Sarah ~
Marriages
3 Jan 1834, Gorbals - Janet McKenzie and Robert Christie
24 June 1835, Gorbals - Sarah McKinzie and John Livingston
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Yes, that's them.
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Nothing showing on Sarah's marriage entry apart from that they were both in/of Hutchesontown :(
Who were Janet's parents and what was her birth/baptism date?
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I don't know any details of her parents or birth.
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Trying a different angle then - can you give the names of Janet and Robert's children in birth order? Also, what were Robert's parents called?
Added - Did Janet die in 1842, Victoria?
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"24 June 1835, Gorbals - Sarah McKinzie and John Livingston"
There is a bit in Wikipedia about Listowel, Ontario mentioning John.
John and Sarah's daughter, Sarah McKenzie Livingstone married John Walden Scott in 1872, in Perth, Ontario. There is a mention of a Neil and a Henry Livingstones as witnesses.
Regards
Malky
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There was a Neil Christie b July 1885, Gorbals to Robert and Janet - so a name in common
(Seasons Greetings to you :) )
gnu
Added - APOLOGIES -I think that you might have been quoting me rather than offering it up as new info.
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And best wishes to you also. (And everyone else) ;) ;)
Regards
Malky
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Just to add to the pot, a Margaret Livingstone married a Peter Christie 5th September 1833 in the Gorbals.
Regards
Malky
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I'm a bit puzzled here. Nova has one or two trees up on Ancestry for the Christies and the McKenzies.
Children listed for Robert Christie and Janet McKenzie on Nova's tree are:
1835 - George Forsyth, b. Glasgow
1837 - Jessie
1839 Elizabeth McKenzie b. Edinburgh
1841 Sarah b. Victoria
I can only find the Neil, previously mentioned - b. 4. July 1835 and bpt. 2 August 1835, Gorbals. He's not mentioned on the tree but the others are :-\
Robert's parents listed as Thomas Christie and Margaret Mavor(?) (No evidence on Scottish records though). Robert down as b. Edinburgh, 1806
The naming of the children don't seem to fit Robert's side at all :-\
gnu
Added - I think that the Livingstone tree ( http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~swilson/livingstone/livingstone2.htm#1835jun ) has got the Neils confused as Neil McKenzie Livingstone is recorded as being b. Gorbals 4 July 1835 but the attached from the OPR page is for Neil Christie
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I am chasing the Canadian link. John is noted as a widow in the 1881 census. He is living with his son, and grandson to their daughter Janet, who married Robert Dick in 1860.
Trying to find Sarah's death, but having problems.
Regards
Malky.
And yes, your assumption was correct, I was quoting you, but no offence taken. To err is human to forgive is devine, and it's nearly Christmas.
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Yes - I gave up on Sarah's death and moved to the Australians. I'd carefully typed out the 1861-1881 Ontario censuses and then found that they were already listed on the Livingstone tree http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~swilson/livingstone/livingstone2.htm#1835jun :-X ;D :-X
So far no link between the McKenzie girls :-\
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Thanks for all your help!
The information on the Christie/McKenzie children is correct. The parents information on Robert Christie is not but is all I have at this stage. I know he had a sister called Allison married to a Forsyth and living in Glasgow and this is how I linked him to that family, but have no other evidence and his birth date doesn't fit with them, so I need to do a bit more research there.
I have gone through all the birth records for Janet McKenzies and Sarah McKenzies that I can find and am yet to find any matching parents.
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I don’t know if you have solved your Livingstone problem yet, but if not I may be able to help.
Your great great grandmother, Elizabeth, was married to Thomas Forrester Thompson and had ten children. One of these was Tom who married Katherine Brooke Shires and had five children under the surname of Brooke-Thompson. The youngest son, Brian, married Petrina Fry, my eighth cousin, 1x removed, so we obviously have a family connection. Although born and bred in England, I have been living in the Canary Islands since 1967, but retain a home in UK, which I was visiting several times annually up to a few years ago, to do genealogical research. I saw your messages on internet last week and decided to do a little research. I have traced as many as possible of the descendants of Robert & Janet Christie down to the mid twentieth century and think that some of those still living may have an answer to your query Three of these are ladies who were born in the 1960s and are direct descendants of Jessie Christie, daughter of Robert & Janet and sister of Elizabeth. Their family is known to hold a lot of family history information, but I am unaware if they have anything on the Livingstone connection. They, like you, live in Australia and it should be relatively easy for you to contact them.
I would be very interested in making contact with you, to tie up a few loose ends I have on the Thompson side of the family.
Kind regards
Keith
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Hi Keith,
Thank you very much for your reply. I must admit that I have done very little research since I posted the query, partly due to frustration at the lack of progress. Any information of assistance you could provide would be very much appreciated. I do have contacts among other descendants of Elizabeth, but not for her sister Jessie.
Cheers
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There were two Robert Christie families. The Robert Christie that married Janet McKenzie in Glasgow and had a son Neil is not the same as the other family. This Robert Christie is the one mentioned in the Cotton Spinner Trials in 1838 and he was a public house owner. There are books on the entire trial. This Robert Christie's wife was mentioned in the trial information and her mother lived with them. Robert Christie was married to Agnes Paton before Janet McKenzie. Robert and Agnes are my 4x great grandparents.
What I find interesting is that the Robert Christie that went to Australia did so after the date of the trial. He basically squealed to get reward money regarding a murder that was planned in his pubs. He was with the man when he was murdered. After the trial Robert Christie disappeared along with his wife and younger son. The older children I haven't been able to trace, but his oldest son John ended up in podunk Cape Breton literally in the middle of no where.
I have more information in regards to about 40 new articles from around the UK about the trial. Has anyone in this other family that went to Australia DNA tested? We have a whack of them from Dr. John Christie here in Nova Scotia matching with other descendants of Robert Christie's parents John Christie and Margaret Warnock. Please feel free to message me and I'll share everything I have. It would be interesting to see if the two families are indeed one and the same!
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Hi,
That all sounds very interesting and might help to explain the various missing information and inconsistencies, including no birth records found for any of the three children that came with them from Scotland. The daughter born in Australia did not have her birth registered for 7 years, and seems constantly confused about when and in which country she was born.
The only information I have about Robert Christie's family in Scotland is from his will where he leaves some money to his sister in Glasgow. She is named as Allison Forsyth. This leads me to an Allison (or Ellison) Christie whose mother is Margaret Mavor. Margaret Mavor, however, appears to be too young to be Robert's mother. This also assumes that his sister was also a Christie. When I get time I will find the actual text from the will because this also includes his sister's address.
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Hello nova63,
I did do a bit of research and the Robert that went to Australia appears to have been from the Edinburgh area. If you want to message me I could send you the documents I have. I really wish they were the same family as it would explain what happened to my Robert. I managed to find a few other children. One ended up in an institution, but could still do day labor. Another moved clear across the country. Has anyone from your branch done DNA testing? That would see if we have the same family or even a branch!
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Hi,
My apologies for taking so long to reply. I have had very little time for family history research so haven't has a chance to get back to you.
I am not aware of anyone in my family doing a DNA test, but I can send out a query and see if anyone has done so. I would certainly be interested in any document you could provide which might help.
I have recently discovered one other puzzling piece of information. Robert and Janet's daughter Sarah who was born in Australia, married a man called Niel McKenzie McPhie. He died in 1917 and there were claims made in his death reported in the local newspaper that he was a nephew of David Livingstone.