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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: JillMD on Thursday 15 December 11 10:05 GMT (UK)
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I have been stuck for awhile on my great grandfather, James Beatty. I'm trying to find his marriage certificate, to ascertain information about his parents and his wife's parents. He married Jane (Jennie) Thomas in 1857 in Ontario. From what I can glean, there are 2 James Beatty families in Cobourg, Ontario at the time. My ggrandfather is from the Irish Church of England family, not related to the mayor Beatty (Scottish Methodist). My ggfather's family was a family of farmers and harness racers. The farm mentioned on this webpage has been verified as the farm my grandfather (Charles) grew up on. http://cobourghistory.ca/industry.htm
I know that my ggrandfather and his family moved to Saskatchewan in the early 1900's, and I've got good info for everything after that. It is prior to the birth of James and Jane's first son, James (junior?) that I cannot find anything. My grandfather's marriage in Weston, Ontario in 1913 was witnessed by a James Thomas, so I would assume that Jane Thomas had at least one brother in Canada who had children. I suspect James Thomas is her nephew. There is some question whether Jane was born in Canada or Ireland.
My ggrandfather's obituary lists the marriage date as 1857 and that he was born in Canada (Ontario). Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi JillMD
What was the approx. birth date of james (and Jane)?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi JillMD
I'm wondering if the 1857 marriage date might be incorrect - unless there were two couples names James BEATTIE & Jane THOMAS!?
BIRTH:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~births/Be_Surnames.htm
(Northumberland & Durham Co) BEATTY, James, m, b. Nov. 14, 1869,
father : James BEATTY, farmer,
Mother: Jane THOMAS,
infm – father, Hamilton Twp
BIRTH:
Transcript from original
(Northumberland & Durham Co) BEATTY, Jane Elizabeth, f, b 5 mar 1871
Father: James BEATTY, farmer,
mother : Jane THOMAS,
infm – father, Lot 10, Con. A, Hamilton Twp
1871: Hamilton Twp, Northumberland West, Ontario
Head: James BEATTIE 27, b Ontario, Farmer, Irish, Weslyan Methodist
Wife: Jane 25, b Ontario
Son: James 1
Dau: Jane Elizabeth 1 mth
This couple would not have been old enough to marry in 1857 ??
In 1881, this same family in Hamilton, with more children including Charles who looks to be a match for your grandfather who married in 1913.
Is this James in 1861 - prior to marriage, with his siblings & widowed mother:
Hamilton Twp, Northumberland, Upper Canada
John BEATTY 24, farmer, single, b W Canada CE
Jane BEATTY 56, b Ireland, NC
Samuel BEATTY 21, Labourer, single, b W Canada, religion: CE
Elizabeth BEATTY 28, single, b Ireland, CE
James BEATTY 18, labourer, single, b W Canada CE
George BEATTY 15, single, b W Canada CE
Mary Jane BEATTY 13, single, b W Canada CE
Cheers
AMBLY
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1871:
Hamilton Twp, Northumberland, Upper Canada
John BEATTY 32, b Ontario, Farmer, single, Irish, CE
And in the next household:
George BEATTY 25, b Ontario, single, Farmer, Irish, Weslyan Methodist
Jane BEATTY 60, b Ireland, widow, Irish, Weslyan Methodist
Samuel BEATTY 30, b Ontario, single, Farmer, Irish, Weslyan Methodist
Mary Jane BEATTY 21, b Ontario, single, Irish, Weslyan Methodist
It looks like, the daughter Mary Jane (your James' sister?) married in 1876:
MARRIAGE: 11 Oct 1876, Hamilton Township, Northumberland & Durham, Ontario
Calvin MINAKER 31, Bachelor, Resident of Cobourg, merchant
Parents: Peter & Patience MINAKER
And
Mary Jane BEATTY 26, Spinster, Resident of Hamilton Twp,
Parents: John & Jane BEATTY
Witness: George BEATTY of Hamilton Twp, and E NOBLE of Haldamind Twp.
And Jane BEATTY (your James' mother?) died in 1879:
DEATH: 26 Oct 1879, Hamilton Twp, Northumberland
Jane BEATTY 76, farmers widow, b Ireland, methodist
Cod: Diabetes lingering 3.5yrs.
Informant: John BEATTY, Veterany Surgeon, Cobourg
Cheers
AMBLY
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I'd hazard a guess, that this is Jane THOMAS in 1861:
Haldimand Twp, Northumberland
James THOMAS 50, Farmer, b Ireland, Irish, Religion: FC
Elizabeth THOMAS 40, b England, FC
Mary THOMAS 17, b West Canada, FC
Jane THOMAS 15, b West Canada, FC
James THOMAS 19, Labourer, b West Canada, FC
Elizabeth THOMAS 6, b West Canada, FC
Richard THOMAS 5, b West Canada, FC
Cheers
AMBLY
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This looks like the same Thomas family in 1852 ....
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census52/SplitView.jsp?id=13961
PB
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Hi and thanks for all of the replies. Everyone seems to be running into the same problem as me with the 2 James Beatty families. The family I'm looking for is church of england, not methodist. The offspring of my James and Jane (called Jenny by the family) are: James, Jane, George, Richard, William, Louise, Daisy, Charles Thomas and Mrs. Chisholm. This information has been confirmed by family and is listed in Jenny's obituary April 24, 1918 age 71 4mo 28 days. Her grave and the graves of several of the children are visible in the Saskatchewan cemetary project. James died in 1915. (The lovely lady, Donna Eckhart, who has photographed much of the Yorkton cemetary told me the family takes up much of a section of the cemetary!)
I know that Jenny died of TB and I believe the marriage date is right (within a year or two). The intermingling of names James, Thomas has made this challenging. I do know that there is no Samuel in the family. I think Ambly may be onto something with the Thomas family - as the naming convention fits with family first names. I believe I'm the only one in my family who has looked into the Thomas family and I know nothing about them other than they're of Irish origins, and that there was a James Thomas as witness to my grandfather's marriage, so I'm not sure how I'll confirm information.
What religion is FC?
My search to find this information was very quick, and I quickly found and got in touch with newfound 2nd cousins who were able to confirm that they'd gotten to the same point as my search with no further sucess. I appreciate everyone's hard work - this has been a frustrating search thus far for me.
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Looks like Mrs Chisholm is Margaret Ann. She registered Daisy's birth in 1926.
PB
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http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e328/e008177992.jpg
Image for the 1881 census referred to by Ambly and the same family in 1891
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ii5/
Births registered in Hamilton township Northumberland county with parents James Beattie, farmer, and Jane Thomas in addition to those found by Ambly
George Alfred 14 Jan 1875
Louisa Amelia 2 Jul 1880
Margaret Ann 28 Nov 1881
Daisy 29 Jul 1888 Cobourg (late registration from Yorkton, Sask)
Charles Thomas 4 Jul 1873
Debbie
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http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/View.jsp?id=112414&highlight=22&desc=1901+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+James+Bestia
1901 census for Yorkton
Jane's DOB is given as 1847. Seems that the obituary might be the record that is not accurate in relation to the date of the marriage.
Debbie
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http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/View.jsp?id=112414&highlight=22&desc=1901+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+James+Bestia
1901 census for Yorkton
Jane's DOB is given as 1847. Seems that the obituary might be the record that is not accurate in relation to the date of the marriage.
Debbie
I wonder why it shows the name as Bestia, when I know that previously and after it was (and still is) Beatty? It is shocking, as that is my grandfather's birthdate - 4 July (I gave birth to his great grandson, Charles on 4 July) :)
I
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http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e328/e008177992.jpg
Image for the 1881 census referred to by Ambly and the same family in 1891
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ii5/
Births registered in Hamilton township Northumberland county with parents James Beattie, farmer, and Jane Thomas in addition to those found by Ambly
George Alfred 14 Jan 1875
Louisa Amelia 2 Jul 1880
Margaret Ann 28 Nov 1881
Daisy 29 Jul 1888 Cobourg (late registration from Yorkton, Sask)
Charles Thomas 4 Jul 1873
Debbie
Yes, those are my grandfather and some of his siblings. I have confirmed that via correspondence with my relatives in SK. :)
I'm looking forward to seeing the family cemetary plot this coming summer. Now, how can I find their grandparents or more information about their parents James and Jane?
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I wonder why it shows the name as Bestia, when I know that previously and after it was (and still is) Beatty?
If you use the split screen option at the top of the 1901 census page you can view the original handwritten page. When people transcribe it is often hard to tell what the name actually is. You are supposed to transcribe exactly what has been written - or your best interpretation of what has been written.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0iia/
The family in 1852 that Ambly posted as a possibility of James' family in 1861 census. Same younger children and mother.
If you start tracking down the marriages of these possible siblings for James you might be able to find, from a marriage or death record, the maiden name of Jane and/or where they were born in Ireland.
Debbie
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MARRIAGE: 11 Oct 1876, Hamilton Township, Northumberland & Durham, Ontario
Calvin MINAKER 31, Bachelor, Resident of Cobourg, merchant
Parents: Peter & Patience MINAKER
And
Mary Jane BEATTY 26, Spinster, Resident of Hamilton Twp,
Parents: John & Jane BEATTY
Witness: George BEATTY of Hamilton Twp, and E NOBLE of Haldamind Twp
Ambly gave details of the above marriage.
Mary Jane Minaker b. Jan 3, 1849 and d. Sep 12, 1912 at Cobourg Hospital. Her parents are given as John Beatty, b. Ireland and Jane Grandy, b. Ire. Someone might like to check to see if they agree that Grandy is the correct interpretation of the last name.
Debbie
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What religion is FC?
According to this website:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~canon/research-topic-church-religion.html
The Census abbreviation of FC stands for Free Church an off-shoot of Presbyterian.
dollylee
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Hello
Mary Crandall has transcribed marriages for Cobourg in 1858. A.N. Bethune performed the ceremonies for the Church of England at that time.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maryc/northumb.htm
Biography A.N. Bethune
From 1847 to 1850 he visited about 127 churches and mission stations, in an area that extended westward through the province from Oshawa.
http://biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?id_nbr=4831
1852 - Ontario County is created from York County and includes the townships of ... Oshawa (Village) is attached to Ontario County.
I would suggest checking the marriage registers for Ontario County part of Home District for your marriage.
District Registers - Newcastle includes Cobourg; however, 1857 doesn't exist. Home District includes Ontario County and Oshawa where A.N. Bethune would travel from to the outlying communities and registers exist for 1857.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0iid/
County Marriage Registers - 1858 - June 1869
Northhumberland County includes Cobourg
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0iic/
The microfiche can be borrowed via interlibrary loans. Note: There are many gaps in pre-1869 marriage records.
Linda
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Ambly, you're right - too young to marry in 1857 - I typo'd that - it was 1867. ugh. Sorry for sending you on a wild goosechase.
Here's a transcript of my ggrandfather's obit: (1915)
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Obituary of James Beatty
“The death occurred at his home here on Thursday last, July 22 of James Beatty, aged 74 years, after a lingering illness. The funeral took place on Sunday, service being conducted in Holy Trinity church by the Rev J. G. Matthews of Saltcoats, followed by interment in Yorkton cemetery. A large concourse of relatives and friends from all sections of the district followed the remains to their last resting place, testifying to the esteem and respect in which deceased was held.
The late Mr. Beatty was born in Cobourg Ontario and in 1867 married Jennie Thomas who, with a family of five sons and four daughters is still left to mourn his loss. In 1899 he came West, settling in the Wallace district where he resided until two years ago when he retired and moved to Yorkton. He proved a successful farmer and with his sons acquired considerable valuable land. He was a great lover of good horses and for many years was prominent in local racing circles, taking an active part in the annual races at the Yorkton fair and similar events.
His sons Messrs James, Charles, George, Richard and William and his son-in-law Mr. Chisholm acted as pall-bears. All are well known residents of the Yorkton district as are also his daughters the Misses Jennie, Louise, Daisy and Mrs Chisholm.”
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Sure wish it mentioned "son of -------- and ------." Thank you all for your help - I will pursue James' siblings in hopes of finding his parents. Now that I know (thanks to the help you all have provided here) how to find a resource library, I'll try going the microfiche way. Crazy how very few of James and Jennie's children married (by my count I think 4 married -I wonder if that's common during that era in rural Canada - (sure glad my granddad did!)
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I wonder why it shows the name as Bestia, when I know that previously and after it was (and still is) Beatty?
If you use the split screen option at the top of the 1901 census page you can view the original handwritten page. When people transcribe it is often hard to tell what the name actually is. You are supposed to transcribe exactly what has been written - or your best interpretation of what has been written.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0iia/
The family in 1852 that Ambly posted as a possibility of James' family in 1861 census. Same younger children and mother.
If you start tracking down the marriages of these possible siblings for James you might be able to find, from a marriage or death record, the maiden name of Jane and/or where they were born in Ireland.
Debbie
Debbie, I believe you may be onto something with the 1861 census. I will try running down some of the siblings. THank you!