RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: nmg1 on Wednesday 14 December 11 18:39 GMT (UK)
-
Looking for information on Elizabeth Thompson married Joseph Gilmour 9th Nov 1900 in Meanee Presbyterian church Napier New Zealand. They had 7 children and lived in Taradle. I know her family was from Clive, Hawkes bay, New Zealand.
Cheers :)
-
Hi and Welcome to the NZ Board :)
I will get our Moderator to move this to the Main Board where it will be seen, at the moment it is tucked away in the threads that have been completed.
Cheers
KHP
-
Hi again, :)
What type of information are you after? If you tell us what you have, then we won't double up on what you already have.
Cheers
KHP
-
Hi
Her children were Arthur, Robert, Elizabeth, Edward, Vera, James, I think there is another one but can't find it. Her family were from Clive in the Hawkes bay. Don't know her birth/death dates, or anything about brothers/sisters, parents etc.
Anything would be great.
Thanks :)
-
Hi
Here are the childrens births up to the 100 yr cut off date
1901/7456 Gilmour Elizabeth Mary / Elizabeth/ Joseph
1903/22821 Gilmour Robert/ Elizabeth /Joseph
1904/19637 Gilmour Arthur Joseph / Elizabeth /Joseph
1906/14069 Gilmour Vera Isobel/ Elizabeth /Joseph
1908/5842 Gilmour William Edward/ Elizabeth /Joseph
1911/134 Gilmour James Henry / Elizabeth /Joseph
Cheers Janette
-
Marriage notice in paperspast gives Joseph's father as Arthur Gilmour of County Derry Ireland and her father as James Thompson of Clive.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=p&p=home&e=-------10--1----0joseph+gilmour--
-
Here is a direct link to the notice
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0igc/
Cheers Janette
-
Looking at the Electoral rolls for Elizabeth and Joseph from 1905/6 to 1919 both together at Greenmeadows Hawkes Bay
Joseph always a labourer.
1928 Elizabeth is at Avondale Road taradale by herself but says married.
In 1935 Joseph and Elizabeth at Avondale Road and he is now a cab proprietor.
Also in Avondale Road is James Henry Gilmour, orchadist and a Gwendoline May Gilmour spinster.
Is Gwendoline the missing child?
-
Hello...
As an alternative you could always try and contact a descendant of Joseph and Elizabeth and see if anyone in their extended family has already done the hard work.
You could try the following...
Found at BDM NZ Search
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
BDM NZ Births
1908/5842 - GILMOUR, William Edward - mother:Elizabeth father:Joseph d.o.b 12 Feb 1908
BDM NZ Deaths
1990/44233 - GILMOUR, William Edward d.o.b 12 Feb 1908 d.o.d 16 Jul 1990
------------------------------------
Found at Palmerston North Library "Manawatu Standard Newspaper Index"
http://ipac.citylibrary.pncc.govt.nz:8080/ipac20/ipac.jsp?menu=search
In the box "Name Browse (for births, deaths, etc)" type Gilmour William Edward
Note down the details for the marriage and death notices of William Edward GILMOUR (subject, date of article, page number etc).
As the death notice was published on the 17 July 1990 it's safe to assume it relates to BDM NZ Death 1990/44233 - GILMOUR, William Edward
Go to the Palmerston North Library contacts page here ....
http://citylibrary.pncc.govt.nz/staff-contacts.html
and send an email to the "New Zealand and Pacific Islands Librarian" asking for a copy of the two notices, giving the necessary details.
She is really helpful and will email you the notices usually within a day or two.
Assuming there are any :-) the death notice should mention children of William (i.e grandchildren of Joseph and Elizabeth). You can then check electoral rolls or similar (google, white pages, old friends, fb) and make contact. Then just ask if they know of anyone in the family with an interest in family history and, if so, would they mind pasing on your contact details to them.
Sounds a bit convoluted but why re-invent the wheel when a few emails could do the trick.
Or if you want I can email the library, get the notices for you and then just forward them to you :-)
Regards
Beg
-
Death of Gwendoline May Gilmour 1981/39228 Date of birth 10 May 1912.
Death of Arthur Joseph Gilmour 1987/3687 Date of birth 25 August 1904
-
Electoral Roll 1938
Joseph taxi proprietor and Elizabeth at Avondale Road Taradale.
Also James Henry, orchadist
And Gwendoline May spinster.
Vera Isobel Gilmour is living at the Arcadia Private Hotel and she is a spinster.
-
1946 Elizabeth, Joseph, James henry, Vera and Gwendoline are all living at Avondale Road
1949 Elizabeth and Joseph not there just the three siblings living together.
1954 Gendoline and Vera are living a 3 Elbourne Street Taradale both unmaaried. James henry is at 33 Harpham Street an orchardist.
1957 Gwendoline and Vera still at Elbourne Street
James Henry is now married to a Pearl Henrietta Hall Gilmour and living at 33 Harpham Street. He has changed his job to cellarman
-
There is a James Henry Thompson on the New Zealand Army WWI Reserve Rolls, 1916-1917 at West Clive
1916
Reserve Roll for 1st Division
Recruiting District Hawke's Bay
Father or brother of Elizabeth? Did she name her son after her father or brother?
-
1900 Electoral Roll
Clive, Hawkes Bay
James Thompson, manager
Elizabeth Taylor Thompson, domestic duties
Elizabeth Thompson, Dressmaker
-
1911
James Thompson, Clive, Farmer
James Henry Thompson, Clive, Farm Overseer
David Thompson, Clive, Farmer
Elizabeth Thompson, Clive, married
Charles Thompson, W. Clive farmer
Louisa Thompson Clive Spinster.
Siblings of Elizabeth?
-
Hi again...
Pretty much repeating my earlier post about seeing if any descendants have already researched the family....here is another death notice you can ask for, except this time from Napier Library. Napier is a city a few miles north of Clive.
Found at BDM NZ Search
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
BDM NZ Births
1904/19637 - GILMOUR, Arthur Joseph - mother:Elizabeth father:Joseph d.o.b 25 August 1904
BDM NZ Deaths
1987/36872 - GILMOUR, Arthur Joseph d.o.b 25 August 1904 d.o.d 4 June 1987
------------------------------------
Napier Library - Newspaper Index (Daily Telegraph + Hawke's Bay Today)
http://library.napier.govt.nz/cgi-bin/spydus.exe/MSGTRN/NI/BSEARCH
Type Gilmour in the search box and note the details for the death notice of Arthur Joseph GILMOUR.
Go to the Napier Library contacts page...
http://library.napier.govt.nz/cgi-bin/spydus.exe/MSGTRN/OPAC/con_contact
...and send an email to the Reference Desk asking them to email you a copy of the death notice
If/when you receive the death notice do the electoral rolls look-up thing again (or white pages, old friends, google etc) and take it from there.
------------------------------------
Have just noticed that you may not be living in NZ as you didn't use an apostrophe in Hawke's Bay :-) So you may not be able to access the current electoral rolls. If this is the case let me know and I can check them for you if and when.
Regards
Beg
-
Hi Beg Clonrode
Thanks for the info. You are right I don't live in NZ. But I was born there and all my family are still there, so I will be heading home one day. Arthur Joseph Gilmour was my Grandfather so I know abit about him and thanks to rootsweb more about his side of the family. But its Elizabeth Thompson's family I don't know much about. But I have a call into home to see if my Grandma knowns more.
Cheers :)
-
Hi Crisane
Thanks for the infomation, it was a great help.
Cheers :)
-
Hi again...
If you don't like Plan A then here's some guesswork. Call it Plan B :-)
--------------------------------------
BDM NZ Births -
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
1872/84 - THOMPSON, Elizabeth - mother: Elizabeth father: James
1872/11119 - THOMPSON, Elizabeth
Both births registered on 16 April 1872 so most likely a duplicate record.
BDM NZ Births fiche
1872/629 - THOMPSON, Elizabeth - Birth registered in Napier (a few miles north of Clive)
-----------------------------------
BDM NZ Deaths + NZSG Burial Locator CD
1947/21363 - GILMOUR, Elizabeth - d.o.d 19 May 1947 aged 75 years which gives a birth year of 1872
Buried at Taradale Cemetery.
Burial record reference no.847
1949/22562 - GILMOUR, Joseph - d.o.d 15 May 1949 aged 80 years
Buried at Taradale Cemetery.
Burial record reference no.847
Headstone inscription reads...
Elizabeth Gilmour died 19 May 1947 aged 75 years
Joseph Gilmour husband of above died 15 May 1949
Source: NZSG Cemetery Fiche - Taradale F02:46
------------------------------------
Hastings District Council cemetery website
http://www.hdc.govt.nz/cem/cemetery_home.html
James THOMPSON - date of death/burial 14 March 1925
Possibly father of Elizabeth THOMPSON b.1872
Cemetery website record shows his previous residence as Mangateretere, which is basically an over-sized paddock next door to Clive.
Headstone mentions Robert (BDM NZ Births 1879/15799) and Louisa (BDM NZ Births 1883/11536), presumably siblings of Elizabeth.
BDM NZ Births fiche
1879/3585 - THOMPSON, Robert - Birth registered in Napier
BDM NZ Births fiche
1883/2654 - THOMPSON, Louisa - Birth registered in Napier
Also mentions Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON, wife of James. Presumably mother of Elizabeth, Robert and Louisa except for the fact that the only marriage for a James THOMPSON to an Elizabeth Taylor ? happened on 6 April 1901. But her previous residence is also given as Mangateretere.
BDM NZ Marriages
1901/3438 - Bride: Elizabeth Taylor THOMAS - Groom: James THOMPSON
-----------------------------------
This is all guesswork. The easiest way to prove/disprove it is to spend money :-)
Purchase printouts from BDM NZ at NZ$20.40 each in this order...
BDM NZ Marriages
1900/4691 - Bride: Elizabeth THOMPSON - Groom: Joseph GILMOUR (which will give names of parents)
BDM NZ Deaths -
1947/21363 - GILMOUR, Elizabeth (which should have the same names of parents)
BDM NZ Births -
1872/84 - THOMPSON, Elizabeth - mother: Elizabeth father: James (which won't have much information as it's pre-1875 but it might mention mother's maiden name)
BDM NZ Births -
1883/11536 - THOMPSON, Louisa - mother: Elizabeth father: James (which will mention mother's maiden name as it's post-1875)
If mother's maiden name is THOMAS then purchase...
BDM NZ Marriages
1901/3438 - Bride: Elizabeth Taylor THOMAS - Groom: James THOMPSON (which will take you back one generation earlier by mentioning the names of the bride and grooms parents i.e the grandparents of Elizabeth GILMOUR formerly THOMPSON. But as I mentioned earlier I'm not too sure about this marriage)
Regards
Beg
-
But its Elizabeth Thompson's family I don't know much about. But I have a call into home to see if my Grandma knowns more.
[Some of following touches on comments already made by Beg. ] ;)
Hi nmg1
Looking at the James THOMPSON (d. 1925) and Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON (d. 1934) burial records and headstone ... coupled with the 1901 marriage record of persons of same names, at first suggested the possibility that this may have been a 2nd marriage for James ?
However, "Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON, domestic duties" is to be found residing in Clive, as early as 1896.
["James THOMPSON, manager" and "Elizabeth THOMPSON, dressmaker" are also at Clive, in same year. ]
As "chrisane's" finds show, Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON appears on the 1900 H/Bay roll (before marriage date), but by 1911 (- and I'm assuming this is the same lady residing with James THOMPSON at Clive), she then becomes "Elizabeth THOMPSON, married". [There are no further electoral listings for an "Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON. ?? ]
It is possible then, that the "Elizabeth" who has children (Robert, Louisa, Elizabeth) with James THOMPSON, is in fact "Elizabeth Taylor THOMAS" ... and that the parents' union, wasn't actually formalised until 1901 ?
[[Maybe your Gran has been able by now, to provide further info on the GILMOUR-THOMPSON marriage ? But if not, then purchasing a copy of this marriage record, would be the best starting point, particularly as it contains details supplied by the bride and groom themselves. Be sure to select a "printout" version (rather than certificate), as this gives maximum available information.]]
:)
~ Lu
-
Well spotted, Lucy2 - these two confused me greatly when I was researching them, because their death records claim that they were married when James was 31 and Bessie was 20, which would make it about 1872. I searched for the marriage in vain, until I widened the dates and discovered the 1901 marriage. It seems they did not marry until well after their children were born - then they snuck off & did it in Lyttleton, well away from the family back in Hawkes Bay.
They are my great-great grandparents. James was born in Scotland in about 1840, based on his age (85) at death on 12 Mar 1925. His parents were James & Margaret Thompson - all of this info comes from the death cert. Unfortunately, with such a common Scots name, I have not yet had any success locating further info. According to family tradition, he was brought to NZ as a sort of apprentice to a Mr. Sydney Johnston, who owned Oruawharo Station in Hawkes Bay. James eventually became the farm manager, before acquiring his own farms, owning one in Clive, one in Pakawai and one in Mangateretere, 4 miles from Hastings. He also owned a house in Duart Road, Havelock North.
Elizabeth 'Bessie' Taylor Thomas was born 25 Nov 1853 in Bosorne, St Just, Cornwall, to Nicholas and Johanna Thomas (nee Taylor). She came to NZ in about 1867. After getting together with James in about 1872, they had 13 kids: Elizabeth (1872), James (1873), Margaret (1875) William (1876), Mary (1878), Robert (1879), Thomas (1881), Louisa (1883), David (1885), Samuel (1886), Charles (1888), Isabella (1890) and George (1893). Mary was my great-grandmother.
I have some history on Bessie's family, all of which comes from an Ancestry.co.uk tree which seems to have disappeared. So I can't really give you any provenance. This is how it looks:
William Thomas]
?]-------William Thomas 1777]
]- Nicholas Thomas 1819]
Henry Neckerwise 1751]- Margaret Neckerwise 1773] ]
Margaret ?] ]
]
William Taylor]- William Taylor 1754] ]
Elizabeth Boyens] ]------William Taylor 1789] ]
Sarah Roberts] ]--- Johanna Taylor 1820]
Ann Thomas]
I have more detailed dates for baptisms, marriages, etc. if you want them - as I said, I can't vouch for the accuracy because I didn't do the research myself.
-
Hi rbarkman
Thanks for that info that you posted.
Elizabeth and James were my ggg grandparents. I had come to abit of a dead end so your info has been great.
Thanks
nmg1 :)
-
Having just joined this site to research my family I came upon all this info re Elizabeth Thompson (nee Taylor) who was my great grandmother. I had very little information about the Thompson family other than my father (James Henry) was the 6th child of Elizabeth and James Thompson's eldest daughter Elizabeth Gilmour. I have visited the family plot at Havelock North where several of the family are buried, but did not realise Elizabeth and James had so many children. Great to get all this info from this site, thanks.
-
Hi rbarkman
I have just got James and Elizabeth's marriage certificate and it says James was born in country Donegal Ireland. Father James Thompson, mother Margaret Knox (looks like). Does this mean anything to you.
nmg1
-
Hi rbarkman
I have just got James and Elizabeth's marriage certificate and it says James was born in country Donegal Ireland. Father James Thompson, mother Margaret Knox (looks like). Does this mean anything to you.
nmg1
Eh? ??? I have a copy of his death cert and it says "Where born: Scotland", father James, mother Margaret. Of course, once someone is dead, you only have the recollections of others to go into the death cert, so it's less likely to be accurate than a marriage record.
Full details on Death Cert:
When & Where Died: 12 March 1925, Mangateretere, Hawkes Bay
Name & Occupation: James Thompson, Sheepfarmer
Age: 85 Years
Cause: Syncope Cardiac Disease, 2 years; Senile Decay
Parents: James Thompson, farmer; Margaret Thompson, not known
Where & When Buried: 14 March 1925, Havelock North (Rev. K E Maclean, Anglican)
Where Born, Time in NZ: Scotland, 23; 62 years ['23' is his calculated age at immigration]
Where & at What Age Married: Lyttleton, 31 [this is not true - he was 61]
Wife, Age if Living: Elizabeth Taylor Thomas, 75
Age of Living Issue: Male: 51, 48, 43, 40, 38, 36, 32; Female: 52, 50, 41, 34
Informant: Undertaker
I've tried doing a search for Irish records on Ancestry, but there's no hits; unfortunately, Irish records are pretty poor. Could you post all the details from the marriage cert?
-
I also tried following up the Sidney Johnston link, to see if Mr. J came from Scotland or Ireland and might therefore have a connection to either place - unfortunately, he was born in Wellington. It may be that Sidney met James in Wellington after the latter's arrival in NZ.
-
Marriage details
James Thompson, 61 Farmer Bachelor, Birthplace Country Donegal Ireland, Residence Lylletton, Usual Clive, Father James Thompson Farmer, mother Margaret Thompson (Knox)
Elizabeth Taylor Thomas 47 Spinster, Birthplace (can not read the name of the town) Cornwall, Residence Lylletton, Usual Clive, Father Nicholas Thomas, mother Johanna Thomas (Taylor).
In the presence of (this is also very hard to read) E. H. Jacks and Elizabeth M. M. ?
Hope that helps. :)
-
Hi, are you Michael and Leola's son? My mother-in-law Beryl is Leola's cousin. My name is Donna Lloyd and I met Michael and Leola about 20 years ago at Lois and Don's. Michael was very keen in geneaology and so am I. I have been working on the Johnston and Thompson family trees. I have also been confused with marriage certificate for James Thompson and Elizabeth Taylor Thomas so thanks for that. I have loaded all the information I have on both families on www.ancestry.co.au. My email is (*). If you want to send me your email address and then I can post an invite to the ancestry site. Thanks
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
RE: Elizabeth Taylor Thompson (nee Thomas)
Elizabeth known as "Bessie" is my husband's great great grandmother. Her daughter Mary Ann Johnston was his great grandmother.
I have a letter from Bessie to Mary Ann who had asked her where she and her father James Thompson were born. She said "I think your father (James) was born someplace in Scotland and when a baby they went to Ireland and lived in a place named Creslaugh, County Donegal, Ireland until he came to New Zealand...In regards me, in a place Osborne St Just in Penzance, Cornwall." Bessie also mentions the Napier Earthquake "Louise (her daughter who died in 1931) has left what she had to me I will be sending the girls something later on its summer frocks so its not too late the best things were lost. We had another shake a few days ago." I also have a copy of a lovely letter that James Thompson send his granddaughter Elizabeth Melville (eldest daughter of Mary Ann Johnston and William Aitken Johnston.
-
Re: James Thompson
I also have some information about James Thompson's brothers Samuel and James.
-
Hi, Donna - yes, that's me. Been carrying on the research from where my dad left off. Looking at my tree, you must be Kevin's wife - not sure if I ever met him. I don't even recall meeting his mother, but I knew his grandparents (my great aunt & uncle) well from various family get-togethers.
That's useful info - it explains how James could be considered to come from both Scotland and Ireland. I'll send you a private message with my email address and hopefully you can send me copies of some of those documents. I can send you a GEDCOM file with all my Johnston & Thompson stuff.
I wonder if Louisa's death was related to the 'quake - she died only three months after. The headstone doesn't mention it, so probably not, but it would be interesting to see the death record.