RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Costar on Saturday 10 December 11 19:28 GMT (UK)
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William (Bill)was a bosun and he must have went to sea at a young age as I cannot find any record of him after the Scottish 1881 census when he was aged 3 until 1901 when I think I have in living in Amble, Northumberland, England age 21 unmarried and occupation seaman.
This may tie in with what I know regarding his Fathers 1st marriage (whereabouts unknown) some time between 1866 & 1876 which ended with the deaths of his wife and children in a fire. As I cannot find the marriage or deaths in Scotland and the fact that he and William sailed from the east coast (Sunderland, England) I am looking for a 1st marriage & deaths in the Newcastle / Hartlepool area.
His 2nd wife (Mary McKenzie = 3/1/1877 Glasgow) and family moved to Hartlepool sometime between late 1886 & late 1888 and then back to Glasgow (Lochwinnoch) before 1901.
I have found that the name McKenzie sometimes appears as McTear or McIntyre in other documents that I have and appear to come from the Wigtown / Kirkmaiden / Drumore area (south west Scotland)
I have 100 post cards written by William on his travels around the world between 1905 & 1909. Some name the ships & destinations that he was on.
SS Furnessia sailing from Glasgow Arriving New York 10th Oct & returning to Glasgow on the 14th Oct. (2 deaths and 1 Birth on board) I found it was a boy and he was named James Turner b31/10/1905.
Boatswains mate on the SS Sardinia Montreal to Boston.
SS Trafford Hall 18th Dec 1905 to Bombay & Karachi via Suez Canal. Arrived back to Liverpool
20th Feb 06.
SS Glen Affrick to Ceylon 18th Sept 1906.
May 1908 London to Sydney estimated arrival 6th June.
In Sept 1909 on his way to the Fife Islands from Dunedin he became unwell so “resigned” and returned to Dunedin. On his postcard of that date he says “ I am in Fire Brigade in Christchurch Central Station. Will write soon”
Sometime after he went home to Glasgow (Lochwinnoch) where I found him in the 1913 valuation rolls living with his Mother.
He appeared again in Feb1921 on the SS Raranga as Bosun sailing from Newcastle to New Zealand where he remained for the rest of his life (as far as I know). He was living in Dunedin in 1933 and I have a photo of him in Auckland 1947, but no address. I am trying to find if he was married when he died and where he is buried?
I do not know if he became a NZ Citizen.
A lot of loose ends to clear up.
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Hi, Did William have a middle name and or do you know his Mothers maiden name.
Have you searched the NZ BDM's
Neil
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Hello Costar,
Yes, quite a few William Millers to sort through. ::)
ER shows a William Miller in Dunedin, 1935, occupation electrician.
Waikumete Cemetery have a William Miller d 1948 age 70, occupation electrician and seaman.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0i9q/
Seems to fit with the details you have provided ???
Sibuns were the FD, and it might be possible to get further information from their records.
John B
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Have you searched the NZ BDM's
Neil
If you feel like ordering the death certificate order the "Printout" as it is the cheaper option and has more information on it.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0a93/
As John mentioned there many William Miller's and getting the Printout or contacting the FD will give the information whether he was married and had children.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi,
Thanks for all your replies.
William born Glasgow Feb 1878 did not have middle name. His mothers maiden name was McKenzie or McIntyre or Mctear, it all depends what certificate you look at. I put that down to the Irish accent and poor spelling.
I have searched the BMD registers and found some possibles but unless I order more certificates I cannot rule them out, which is why I phone NZ direct to see if they can confirm at least the Parents names but I have found they do not work that way. I have found William in 1935 Dunedin and as I know that he was living there in 1933 (I have his address) I am presuming that it is he.
I will look into the death in 1948, the age and occupations are right.
Can you tell me what Sibuns and FD are.
Did not know about the printouts.
Costar
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Can you tell me what Sibuns and FD are.
Hi Costar,
FD = Funeral Director and Sibuns is the name of the Funeral Directors for William Miller.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ib9/
Cheers
KHP
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Thanks for explaining my shorthand, KHP ;D
Costar, I sorted all of the deaths of William Miller (no middle name) at BDM from 1940 to 1978 to arrive at those whose age gave a birth in 1878. The 1948 death was the only one that fitted. Others were at least two years out.
Sorry, I should have shown all the results before deleting my spreadsheet ::) :-[
John B
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Hello All,
Thank you all very much for your help.
Success at last.
William Miller died 1948. I have the burial details from Sibuns Funerals, who I also thank.
William is buried in the Waikumete Soldiers Cemetery as he must have served in the Boer War, Regt Number 38711.
He was married at some time and later divorced. Wife's name Helen Sophia.
So I have a bit more research to do.
Costar
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Hi Costar
Here is their marriage
1912/8828 Ellen Sophia Treseder to William Miller
Cheers Janette
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Hi Costar,
Thanks for letting us know ..... a nice xmas pressie.
Cheers
KHP
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Hi,
Thanks Janette for the info. I have found her birth in 1890 so now trying to find her death or divorce and if any children if possible. That may get me to a living relative who may know where Williams brother James ended up. James was born in England but moved back to Scotland with the rest of the family, I presume just after their Father was drowned in 1898 and buried in Pensacola USA.
I have attached the last known photo of William taken in 1947.
Cheers
Costar
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Hi Costar
This is probably her burial ?
Ellen Sophia MILLER
Died : 17 July 1973 - aged 84 years (bc 1889)
http://www.timaru.govt.nz/cemetery-database2.html
There's a photo of her headstone also.
I'm not sure whether the Timaru authorities can help with further information re: funeral director or next-of-kin ... but it might be worthwhile emailing them to find out.
~ Lu
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Hi again
I'd also had a quick look through the NZ electoral rolls (available at Anc**try), for a few years.
1914 - Southland - Invergargill
MILLER - Ellen Sophia, domestic duties
MILLER - William, electric lineman
... both at 253 Tweed Street, Invercargill
Thereafter, no listing for these two together.
Ellen Sophia MILLER is probably the person who after 1914 can be found at various addresses in Oamaru - shown as either "housewife" or "married". In all cases, there is never a husband to be found at a matching address.
[And despite her death in 1973, she still appeared on the Timaru electoral roll in 1978. ] ???
~ Lu
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William Miller died 1948. I have the burial details from Sibuns Funerals, who I also thank.
He was married at some time and later divorced. Wife's name Helen Sophia.
Hi Costar
Did the record from Sibun's, specifically state that William was divorced ? (And did it include the wife's maiden name) ?
I just ask because usually we would be able to find a reference to a divorce on the Archives New Zealand, Archway website. (I haven't found anything.)
It's always possible that the couple had a separation agreement but didn't actually divorce.
~ Lu
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Hi costar,
I notice in the photo,William is wearing a medal of some sort,the ribbon doesn't look like aq military medal,I wonder what it is?I imagine he is very proud of the medal to be wearing it on his shirt.
Cheers Janette
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Sometime after he went home to Glasgow (Lochwinnoch) where I found him in the 1913 valuation rolls living with his Mother.
I take it there was no wife mentioned?
In Janettes Reply #8 he married in 1912
Cheers
KHP
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Hello,
Its all moving so fast. E-mail on its way re the death notice which I will follow up with a phone call.
Also that looks like them in invercargill in 1914. He is on the Glasgow V,rolls in 1913 but no sign of a wife.
On the death record it says he is divorced and wifes name Ellen Sophie, no surname.
There is a obituary notice stuck onto the record which gives me a lot of info. Checking the Boer War records in the National archives I find that he was in the 140th Company 31st Battalion the Fincastle Horse and that he received medals, which are I presume the ones he is wearing in the photo.
I think the photo may have been taken on Mount Eden or at the Auckland War memorial.
I will get the 1912 marriage certificate to make sure I am on the right track.
Cheers Costar
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It looks like it could be on One Tree Hill going by the stonework.
Did the death record mention if he has issues?
Cheers Janette
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Hi,
No mention of children.
There are not a lot by the name of Treseder in NZ so one of them may know something.
Heres hoping.
Cheers Costar
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Hi Costar,
Here is his plaque in Waikumete Cemetery
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acording to this site he was awarde the QSA
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Databases/BoerDetailed/
Cheers Janette
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There are not a lot by the name of Treseder in NZ so one of them may know
Can anyone see any sighting of her parents?
Cheers
KHP
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This looks like her birth,KHP
1890/4199 Treseder Ellen Sophia to Ellen Sophia and Henry
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Yes, I saw that Janette, but I can't see anything else for the parents ..... you know how death notices or Probates give extra clues ..... guess I was just wondering out loud. :-[
Cheers
KHP
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There are no deaths for the parents,maybe the left NZ
Cheers Janette
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The only death I can see for a Henry Treseder occurred in 1884 five years before Ellen Sophia was born in 1890
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0iln/
Cheers
KHP
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Hi All,
Let me recap,
William left Scotland 26th Sept 1909 as per his postcard of that date. Returned to Scotland shortly after only to go back for good to NZ. Found him in Glasgow in 1913 living with his Mother but there is no sign of his younger brother or sister. The sister died in 1915 and it was the brother that registered her death, so I assume William had returned to NZ before then. William was the oldest so he by tradition should have registered the death. His letter from Dunedin (12 Jeffery Street, Andersons Bay) in 1933 mentions his life at sea but no mention of a wife. All other info I have has come since my recent post, which I thank you all again.
I must get the 1912 marriage cert to confirm I have the right William, though I feel it is right.
I phoned to order one but its not that easy.
To date I have almost 700 BMD & Census certs & about 200 wrong ones.
I initially started looking for 6 "lost" family, I have found three so far. Not bad after 10 years.
Cheers
Costar.
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Whats the date of this postcard..fire brigade mention is interesting
there could be a history with his mentions
You mention you have 700 death and other certs...
If we were to list all the death registrations..can you list ones you haven't purchased?
Just think answer must lbe somewhere
This fire service mention may be a start to find out how long he stayed with that involvement
Bye
althea
Ps isee the date was 1909
and that John B had looked at all the deaths and come up with one possibility
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Costar
re: Ellen Sophia MILLER (nee TRESEDER )
Possible birth of same :
1890 - TRESEDER - Ellen Sophia
Parents: Ellen Sophia / Henry
Sometimes it happens that there are errors in the names appearing on our online B, D and M indexes.
I think it is likely that the parents of Ellen Sophia are in fact a couple named "Ellen Jane" and "(John) Henry" TRESEDER ... and because of the similarity of first name of mother and daughter, that the child's name has been inadvertently entered in the "Name of Mother" column.
[You could try sending a (cheeky) email to NZ BDM ... asking if they could check that they have the mother's name listed correctly on the online index. ]
;)
~ Lu
see next >>
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Ellen Sophia TRESEDER
The couple whom I suspect are the parents of Ellen Sophia, did not actually marry until 1893.
Ellen Jane MARTIN - John Henry TRESEDER -- 1893
Births to Ellen Jane and John Henry TRESEDER
1984 - Harry
1896 - John Douglass
1898 - Rena Tui
Of interest is this Southland electoral roll listing -- which is before the date of marriage of this couple :
1890 - Invercargill
TRESEDER - Ellen Jane - domestic duties
TRESEDER - John Henry - surveyor
... both residing at Yarrow Street, Invercargill
Additionally there a birth notice published in "Southland Times" - 27 March 1894 for the child Harry.
"TRESEDER ... 22 March 1894 at Riverton ... Mrs H. TRESEDER, a son. "
The child's birth registration shows his father was "John Henry" ... but the birth notice gives mother as "Mrs. H. " ... which may indicate that John Henry was known by his second name of Henry ?
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Hi
Someone has John Henry Treseder's tree on A$y
Cheers
KHP
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1984 - Harry
Shouldn't that be 1894
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Ellen Jane and John Henry TRESEDER also lived at Oamaru (1928 to 1938) - at the same time that Ellen Sophia MILLER lived there.
In 1928 they appear on the Oamaru Supplementary Roll (suggesting perhaps that they had recently moved to that district) ... with them is spinster daughter, Rena Tui.
1928 Oamaru Main Roll shows Ellen Sophia MILLER living at a different address -- "The Gorge", Weston - (married, but no husband listed on roll.)
The (senior) TRESEDER's appear to have moved around New Zealand a fair bit ... even to the North Island. Their children are scattered throughout the country also. [Rena Tui maried after 1931 and can be found under surname "HAROLD" ]
Deaths
1960 - TRESEDER - Ellen Jane - aged 92
1950 - TRESEDER - John Henry - aged 90
~ Lu
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1984 - Harry
Shouldn't that be 1894
Yeah ! :-[
Cheers KHP
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... whoops ... made another "blue" ... (read the year on the line above) :-[
*** Correction *** to Reply # 32
Death
John Henry TRESEDER ... year of death - 1952 (not 1950)
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Hi Lu,
I'm curious to know more about your comment in reply #29
Of interest is this Southland electoral roll listing -- which is before the date of marriage of this couple :
1890 - Invercargill
TRESEDER - Ellen Jane - domestic duties
TRESEDER - John Henry - surveyor
... both residing at Yarrow Street, Invercargill
I can see entry for John Henry on Index, (which is all I have access to) but not Ellen Jane.
I thought that women were not given the right to vote until 1893??
John B
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Hi all,
I ordered a William & Ellen marriage cert today to confirm I/we are on the right trail. Expect delivery in about 14 days.
If ok I will try and get a death cert for Ellen, burial date ok but unsure of death date. Trying to contact the stone mason who may have records that he could check.
Thanks Janette for the photo of the plaque and to all others.
Cheers
Costar
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Hi Costar,
The date on the headstone is the date of death,this can be got by narrowing the date down on BDM's
17/7/1973
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
Lu posted the date Hi Costar
This is probably her burial ?
Ellen Sophia MILLER
Died : 17 July 1973 - aged 84 years (bc 1889)
http://www.timaru.govt.nz/cemetery-database2.html
There's a photo of her headstone also.
I'm not sure whether the Timaru authorities can help with further information re: funeral director or next-of-kin ... but it might be worthwhile emailing them to find out.
~ Lu
Cheers Janette
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Hi All,
Thanks for the quick work by the Wellington BMD office, I received the Marriage cert of William Miller & Ellen Sophia Treseder today the 29th Dec. Sophia's mothers maiden name looks like Hockin, so I am going to order the death cert for Ellen, which should give me the details of husbands & parents names. I have also made contact with the monumental stonemason who has kindly given me a name that I can contact for further info.
So a good start for the new year.
Cheers to all
Costar
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sorry to send you a reply to your question about Hoffman?Kiddies this way but the system will not allow me to reply to personal messages. I am afraid I do not have any Kiddies in my tree at the moment but will let you know if I come across any. Was interested to note however that we have the same surname, which is also a family name that I am researching for my husband.
Elaine Russell
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but the system will not allow me to reply to personal messages.
Elaine Russell
Hi Elaine,
Welcome to Rootschat. You need two more posts before you can activate the Personal Message system, so if you reply twice more to this message ..... with a Hello, then a smiley
Cheers
KHP
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Hi,
My Russells are from Glasgow and married to Westwoods from Dundee.
We originally came from Ireland away back in the mid 1800s and married to Coffeys.
Cheers
Jim
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Hi I'm trying to find out more info about the miller, particularly thier ethnic background, as I noticed Sophia had a sister called Rena tui, Maori ancestors?
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Hello paallo90
... welcome to RootsChat. :)
You say you are wanting to find out more about "the MILLER" (presumably MILLER family).
Yes, Sophia (aka Ellen Sophia) had a sister named Rena Tui, but she (the sister), didn't have the surname, MILLER.
~ Lu
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Hi paallo90
As mentioned earlier in this thread, there are a couple of family trees at the ancestry.com website for the TRESEDER surname.
The father of Rena Tui TRESEDER is said to have been born in Australia, and the mother Ellen Jane MARTIN, in Southland, NZ - her parents names are not given.
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It doesn't necessarily follow though that just because the child was given a "Maori" name, that she had Maori ancestry. The Christian name "Tui" was a popular name for both NZ-born girls and boys, especially from around the 1890's ... "Huia" was another one. [I have a number of both these names in my various non-Maori families ].
The name "Rena" comes from a variety of cultures. [The usual spelling of the Maori variant appears to be "Rina" ].
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Hi there
I have just joined today as I have been researching my own family history, last week my uncle died and was to be buried with his grandmother who is Ellen Sophia Miller, she is my Great grandmother.
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Hi,
Welcome to Rootschat.
Can you tell me any more family history re William Miller & Ellen.
What I know about his life after 1909 is a bit patchy. I have his Marriage, Death and a 1933 address in Dunedin plus a photo dated 1947.
After his birth there is no trace of him until 1900 when he was in South Africa.
Cheers
Jim
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Hi there Jim
I came across a obituary notice online William died on July the 8th 1948, 103 Great South Road, Epsom, William Miller (regi no 38711, South African War) aged 70 years, he is buried at the Waikumete Soldiers Cemetary
They had a son Ian Francis Desmond Miller who died in the second world war aged 21, he died on the 30th July 1940 and is buried at Brookland Military Cemetary, Woking, Surrey, England.
My Nana was Ellen Joyce Miller and there were two other daughters also Molly and Edith.
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The two other daughters that I had mentioned Molly's proper name is Mary Leah Born 1913 and the other Edith Lillian Born 1924, Ellen Joyce 1926, Ian Francis 1919
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Hi,
On the death cert for Helen/Ellen Sophia d 1973 there is mention of 2 female children (aged 59 & 48) & for the male child there is a blank.
I have the Marriage and the death certs for William & Helen Sophia.
On Williams death cert it states that they were divorced.
Do you know why Francis was buried in England.
So many questions to ask.
I presume you are in NZ.
Cheers
Jim
I have got Ian on the CWGC web site. He is buried in Brookwood Cemetery Not Brookland.
My brick walls are falling fast
Cheers
Jim
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Hi there Jim
The two females mentioned on certificate will be Leah Mary (Timaru) and Edith Lillian(Oamaru), Ellen Joyce (Timaru, my Nana) died 1970. I'm unsure as to why he would be buried in England!!! I am in NZ and you are??? Also what is your connection William Miller??? If there is more information that you require please ask and hopefully I can help
Cheers Kerry
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Hi Kerry,
I have sent you a P M
Cheers
Jim
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Hi
Interest in Ian Francis Miller who was killed in the war and buried at the Brookwood Cemetery,
my mums father who we never met?
LK
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Here is his CWGC entry
MILLER, IAN FRANCIS DESMOND
Rank: Driver
Service No: 9973
Date of Death: 30/07/1940
Age: 21
Regiment/Service: New Zealand Army Service Corps 2 Supply Column
Grave Reference: 2. F. 9.
Cemetery: BROOKWOOD MILITARY CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of William and Sophia Miller, of Oamaru, Otago, New Zealand.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/44400/BROOKWOOD%20MILITARY%20CEMETERY
Cheers Janette
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His parents marriage maybe
1912/8828 Ellen Sophia Treseder to William Miller
Their eldest
1913/24147 Miller Mary Leah to Ellen Sophia and William
Cheers Janette
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Mother's death
1973/49184 Miller Ellen Sophia born 16 January 1889
Her birth
1890/4199 Treseder Ellen Sophia Ellen Sophia Henry 16/1/1890
The birthdate attached to her death is out by a year
Cheers Janette
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Good Morning everyone,
Ian Miller is my great Uncle
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:)Hi
Are you in the UK?