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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Paul Johnson of Hartlepool UK on Saturday 10 December 11 16:17 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
Can someone advice me where I should look next.
I have ancestor, William Dawkins born circa 1824 who was from Hartlepool, Durham, that was a Master Marina who died at sea on or about 22nd January 1863. This information I got from the National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941 record for William Dawkins. In the 1861 census he was aboard the Sea Nymph in Renfrewshire, Scotland.
What I would like to find out is information about his death, but I cannot find his record in the death register. Does anyone know how I will find it, or anything like newspaper articles about it, any information about his death and the ship that he was on etc? Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
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Deaths at sea were recorded in a Marine Register.
See http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/births-marriages-deaths-sea.htm
Stan
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Thank you Stan,
I've just tried there, and it guided me to www.BMDregiters.co.uk. Unfortunately I could not find his record there either. :(
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Hi Paul,
I have just gone through a similar problem. I would suggest that you contact the local history dept, at the Library local to where this happened, and as you have a fairly specific date of death, ask them if they might be prepared to have a look for you in old newspapers.
I was given some fantastic info by doing exactly this.
Good luck!
Copperbeech5
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You could try contacting Hartlepool library, I believe they have a newspaper collection. http://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/info/200062/libraries/824/reference_library
Stan
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Hi Paul,
From "The Standard" (London, England), Wednesday, January 21st, 1863, page 3, Issue 11995
Dearths - Hawkins - Dec 21, lost on board the Lifeguard steamer, age 21.
There is an account of "the supposed loss of the Lifeguard Steamer" in the Daily News (London) on the 27th of December, 1862, which describes as last being seen off Scarborough, having left from the Tyne. It then described a fierce storm. I can send you a copy if you like.
Although the death date is a month earlier, maybe this was when he was "Officially Declared Dead".
Regards, Jo :)
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I just found another article about the Lifeguard, which lists the crew and passengers. Unfortunately the William Hawkins on board was not a crew member but a saloon passenger = a draughtsman with R Stevenson & Co. Sorry!
Jo :(
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Hi,
Thank you Cooperbeech5 and Stan, I will contact Hartlepool library to see if they can help me.
Jo, that's great information. Where did you go to find it?
Regards, Paul
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Hi Paul,
I was searching the 19th Century British Library Newspapers (available to search on line with a library card from my local library). While it seems that that was the wrong William Hawkins - I did find an article in 'The Birmingham Daily Post', Jan 22, 1863, that talks about a great storm the previous night. "the weather appears to have moderated a little, but numerous disasters have occurred in the channel. Amongst the vessels reported as stranded and wrecked are the Rubin from Woodpoint for Glasson Dock; the JG Storer from Portland for Kingstown, total loss but the captain and crew were all saved; the Admiral, from Liverpool to Bombay, crew saved but vessel breaking up; And Pride of Canada. A vessel, name unknown, was lost at Waterloo, and all hands, it is feared, are lost. North West lightship is still displaying signals of distress"
Because the date matches your date of death it would be worth trying to find out more about the ship "name unknown" that lost all it's crew. It's late here and I'm heading to bed, but please let me know if you have any luck and I will happily search further another time.
Merry christmas, Jo :)
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Lifeguard, steamer, left Newcastle, with about 41 passengers; never since heard of; supposed to have foundered off Flamborough Head 20 Dec, 1862.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13205592?searchTerm=&searchLimits=l-publictag=shipwrecks
http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?134006
Two very sources and accounts of the loss.
Vessel finally found:
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/around-yorkshire/local-stories/treasures_tell_story_of_christmas_sea_tragedy_1_2328315
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Hi Jo, Thank you again. Btw, his name is Dawkins not Hawkins.
Bilge, Thank you for that info.
Paul
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A little confused here. Are we looking for the death of William Dawkins if so can I assume that references to Hawkins lost with LIFEGUARD are erroneous?
I can find no references to William Dawkins holding a Masters or Mates Certificate, either Foreign or Home trade for the years 1860-1863.
There were at least six vessels with the name SEA NYMPH around in 1861 but one was registered in Stockton and maybe one registered in West Hartlepool..
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Hi Seaweed,
Yes, the name that I am researching is William Dawkins born circa 1824 from Hartlepool. The information that I have is that in the 1861 census he was recorded as the Master Mariner aboard the Sea Nymph in Renfrewshire, Scotland.
His marriage certificate from Hartlepool in 1847 says - William aged 23 years, bachelor, Occupation - Mariner, Residence - South Terrace Hartlepool, Father's name - George Dawkins, Occupation of father - Farmer.
Regards,
Paul
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Hi,
The William Dawkins (b 1824) on 1861 census as Master of the Sea Nymph gives a birthplace of Deal, Kent; perhaps not your William. :-\
Nanny Jan
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Hi all,
died at sea on or about 22nd January 1863.
There are reports in The Times, on Wednesday, Jan 21 and Thursday, Jan 22, 1863 of the damage to shipping in the severe gale which had blown from Tuesday morning with terrific violence over the whole of England.
Stan
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The William Dawkins (b 1824) on 1861 census as Master of the Sea Nymph gives a birthplace of Deal, Kent; perhaps not your William.
Hi Nanny Jan,
That one was a conundrum that I pondered over for a long time. On the Sea Nymph at that time with William was his wife and two of his children. The three of them matched my details exactly, and the only thing that confused me was the place of birth for William. I thought there must be some reason why he gave that place of birth, but I don't know why. I cannot find any other matches in the 1861 census for him.
If that was not him then that leaves another question to answered but, I still have a record from the National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941 record for William Dawkins. This states William Dawkins was a Master Mariner who died at sea on or about 22nd January 1863, and that his wife, Eliza Dawkins, was granted Principle Registry on 22nd June 1863.
Regards,
Paul
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Hi all,
I contacted the local library like people suggested, and this was their reply -
Thank you for your enquiry. We have searched our resources and have found an announcement in the Stockton and Hartlepool Mercury dated 18th Feb 1863. The announcement gives details of the journey of the ship feared lost and its destination along with information on the storms in the North Sea it goes on to state that a Mr Dawkins master a married had a wife and family residing in Hartlepool.
Is anyone able to help me further with this information?
Many thanks,
Paul
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Could you give us the name of the ship?
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I wish I could but that is all the information they gave me.
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Seems odd Paul, if they could give details of the lost ship then surely they must have the name of it? ???
Perhaps another query would prompt them.
(Love your avatar!)
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Yes. Try them again.
If there is no more information. Then you need to look at Lloyds List for the date/s in question. Problem is there are no copies in your area, nearest in Edinburgh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd's_List
A long shot. Teeside Archives have crew agreements for Stockton and Hartlepool registered vessels for the year 1863. Maybe worth a looksee.
Also try and get hold of the book/s Shipwrecks of the East Coast vol. 1 & 2. I understand now revamped as the Ultimate Shipwreck Guide. Ron Young author. Should get it at your local library. This may narrow things down assuming of course he died in the North Sea.
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Thank you Seaweed,
I am travelling up to Hartlepool next month. Hopefully I'll find time to pop into the library and take a look for my self.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
You might have tried these links, but maybe worth a look?!
http://www.northeasthistoryhub.co.uk/index.htm This is the Hartlepool family history group/ page. Maybe you could try emailing them incase they could ask their members locally??
infodesk[at][/blue]hartlepool.gov.uk (This is the local history library - don't know if this was the one you tried?)(Replace [at] with @)
Best wishes,
Copperbeech5
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Hi Paul
Just came across your post, don't know if you have got anywhere but here's what I've found:
In BT153 - Registers of Wages and Effects of Deceased Seamen there is a Wm Durkin: date of death 18 January 1863: Ships name Buccepholus
In the Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941 BT113 records there is a William Dawkins: date of birth: 12/01/1824 Place of Birth: Sandwich, Kent. But when you look at the record, which was issued in 1845, it states "When unemployed resides at Hartlepool"
I have scans of both documents if you want to PM me with your email address
Regards
Alan
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Hi again Paul
I think this is your man, I've found another two navel records which I thought were the same person. One said William Dawkins date of birth 1824 place of birth woodnesborough. I looked up woodnesborough and its a village near Sandwich, Kent and on searching 1851 census there is a George Dawkins who was born 1774 in Woodnesborough who is an Agriculturer Labourer, matches father on wedding certificate !!!! Also on the family search website there is a christening record for a William Dawkins Christening Date: 22 Apr 1824, Father: George, Place: Woodnesborough, Kent, England
Alan
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Paul, Presumably you may have seen my 2 PMs to you re Mercantile Marine. I checked further re MM and the site had been attacked by a virus, which will explain why it can no longer be accessed. Anyhow, it looks like members here are finding the information that you require. So best of luck.