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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: ritchiewilk on Thursday 08 December 11 14:45 GMT (UK)
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This has probably been asked before but I'm curious.
Searching OPR Births on scotlandspeople I saw names entered twice ( same date of birth, name, parents names and place of birth) but with two different GROS numbers. Why two different GROS numbers?
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Hi ritchiewilk
Not sure to be honest :-\ Was everything exactly the same? The most obvious thing could be that one record was a birth entry on the register and the other a christening. However, you say that these entries you have in duplicate (except for the GROS numbers) were both for births.
If no one can help, you could try contacting SP and asking the question perhaps, see www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=551&460
Monica :)
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Thanks for the help.
I also noticed that along side the parents name is a frame number. Like the GROS number these are different.
Curiosity got the better of me and I purchased the 2 different records for the same person. I have 4 duplicated names to check, luckily all the names were on each record. There are no dates showing when these were written.
Its complicated to explain :-\so I've attached the images. Second image to follow. Check out the entries for Young.
Thanks
Ritchie
Added: Only small relevant sections can be added to due to copyright. Thank you. :)
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Second image.
I noticed on this record the year of birth is in the first two decades of the 1800's, for all entries and on the first record the birth year is in the 40's except for the Youngs!
Ritchie
Added: Only small relevant sections can be added to due to copyright. Thank you. :)
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That's a very strange one. Sometimes there are duplicate GROS numbers because birth has been registered in two different places - sometimes a mother gave birth at her mother's home - but I have no answer for this one. Perhaps a local genealogist could help you out.
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Could the first entries be in a notebook, & then entered into the register afterwards? I have seen, in my research, christenings entered at the end of a register.They had been copied from the family's bible.
regards,
flst
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Hi
If you look at the entries on both images they seem to all refer to 'born' and none to'christened', this would suggest that they were possibly not Church of Scotland. I think the C of S were supposed to also record non C of S births and marriages that occurred in the parish, some parishes did but others didn't. It also looks like some parishes caught up with these events prior to 1855 when Registration commenced. I have a couple of OPR images relating to my family were the page covers births over a 20 year period and I know that my relatives were christened in the United Presbyterian Church, not Church of Scotland. I suspect that in this case the minister has caught up with non C of S births not realising that some had already been entered some years earlier. These catch-ups also tend to be in family groups.
Andy
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Thanks for your input everyone. It is a strange one. I have heard of siblings being christened at the same time but not births recorded in this way and not 20-40 years after they were born, as it appears.
I've contacted scotlandspeople to explain this. Hopefully they will provide an answer. If they do I'll let you know.
So, while I'm waiting I'll go off and try and solve other mysteries in this family.
Thanks again
Ritchie
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Hi Ritchie
Sorry, had to take off the original OPR page images you had attached above due to copyright reasons.
Just one comment from me now. The main references from the two images were for two different Andrew Youngs, one born in 1825 and the other in 1814:
18 Jan. 1825 GROS ref 775/00 0020 0108 Galashiels
29 Sept. 1814 GROS ref 775/00 0010 0215 Galashiels
Am I missing something here?
Monica :)
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Presumably the same parents' names? So the first Andrew died and they used the name again. Unfortunately there are very few entries in the burials register and none in the time frame in question (http://www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/pdf/list-of-oprs-758to811.pdf). You may need to look for a memorial inscription to prove this theory, but there is no guarantee that this will exist.
FR refers to the frame number on the microfilm version, see here:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/FAQs/Questions/index.aspx?65
Nell
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Presumably the same parents' names?
Parents for both show as John Young and Sarah Dickson. Checking on IGI, a third Andrew Young shows as born to these parents on 12 May 1835, also Galashiels. Must have been an important family name to have been re-used three times, with likely early deaths of first two Andrews?
Monica
Added: I am not even sure whether third Andrew survived much past an early age :-\ From 1841:
John Young 50, baker
Sarah Young 45
Stewart Young 15
George Young 14
David Young 13
Jas Young 11
Address: Bank St, Galashiels
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Hi
Sorry I didn't know about the copyright. Will try to remember in future.
The 3 Andrews are the mystery. I have still to find marriage, death and census records for them. The only thing I have found so far is an 1841 Scotland census for an Andrew born 1835, but the place of birth is Kelso, Roxburghshire, not Galashiels, Selkirkshire!
I may look for M.I.'s to see if they can add another piece to the jigsaw, and a walk round the cemeteries in Galashiels may help.
Thanks
Ritchie
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Hi Ritchie
As Nell mentioned, the first two Andrews (1814 and 1825) likely died young given the re-use of the name. The fact that the third Andrew, showing as born in 1835, didn't show with the family in 1841, made me think that the last Andrew may also have died young and before 1841.
Always hard for this period confirming deaths with often the lack of burial/death registers before the start of official registration.
Monica :)
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I received a reply from scotlandspeople today. Basically, what they are saying is that parents can registar a birth as many times as they want, like where the parents live or where the child was born. Marriages can be recorded upto 3 times. In the grooms parish, the brides parish and there could also be banns. So when an event is recorded seperately there will be more than one GROS number.
This clears up my original question, but, I don't know where exactly in Galashiels they were recorded. The 1841 and 1851 census shows them living at the same address and at that time there were 3 churches within about 200metres. Maybe they attended one church then later on moved to one of the other churches and recorded their childrens names at both!
Ritchie