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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: chrish53 on Tuesday 06 December 11 13:06 GMT (UK)
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I hope someone can help me here. I am looking for more details of the attack on the MV Staffordshire, 150 miles NW of the Butte of Lewis on 28th March 1941. She was outbound from Liverpool to Rangoon but I have no details as to a cargo. She was on fire and beached, recovered later. There were, I think, 30 killed and many injured, one of the dead was my cousin once removed; John Miller.
John was born in Egypt 29th August 1916 and had 2 brothers and 2 sisters. He was an engineer aboard the Staffordshire which I believe was attacked by aircraft. I know there was no U boat involvement as I have checked the U boat site.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
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There are a number of bodies recovered from the water by various vessels on the following days after the steamships sinking.
http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1941-03MAR.htm
http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/scottishwargraves-ftopic443-0-asc-15.html
British steamer STAFFORDSHIRE (10,683grt) was damaged by German bombing in 59-30N, 10-18W.
Fourteen crew and fourteen passengers were lost.
The steamer was beached at Loch Ewe on the 29th. On 23 April, the steamer sailed for the Tyne.
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Thanks Bilge, more for my file. I shall add a photo or two when I get home from work.
:)
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According to Lloyd's War Losses the passenger vessel STAFFORDSHIRE was carrying a general cargo and she was damaged by aircraft. It would seem she never made a survivors report. No doubt there will be details of the attack somewhere in the National Archives together with maybe some personal records IE his engineers certification. Do you wish to go down this road? It would possibly mean a visit to Kew.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2801010
http://www.benjidog.co.uk/Tower%20Hill/Sparta%20to%20Stangrant.html
There are downloadable pre 1941 records for him on the Find my Past website
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/merchant-navy-seamen/results?event=S&recordCount=-1&otherDataSet=2%3A41&forenames=john&includeForenamesVariants=true&_includeForenamesVariants=on&surname=miller&_includeSurnameVariants=on&county=&place=&birthYear=1916&birthYearTolerance=5&x=21&y=13
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Thanks Seaweed,
I know a fair bit about him pre-1941. His family were often visited by my Grandmother when they lived in Lisbon, his sister Maisie was a bridesmaid at my Grandparents wedding. I have gleaned masses of Documents etc from both Ancestry and FindMyPast, and this goes along nicely with the mass of family photographs.
My aircraft enthusiast head is trying to work out which German type had the range to hit the Staffordshire at that position I assume it was a unit operating from Norway as HE 111's and JU 88's used to raid into Scotland and Fighter Command units were tasked to intercept them. Another possibility would be the four engine Fokker Wolf Condor which was used as a maritime raider/reconnaissance type.
Thanks again to all and keep those replies coming!
Chris :D
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As promised, pictures of John, one possibly on MV Staffordshire though we may never know.
The comments on the pictures includes the long held family belief that the ship was torpedoed by a U boat. It was also said that his lifeboat was machine gunned.
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Dammit!
Try again.
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Another one for you to look at!
http://ww1.convoyweb.org.uk/mem/index.html
just add his name or vessel name for a list of losses.
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Thank you,
Chris
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Try a post on this site.
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8
If you get no answer there then its Kew or the Bibby Line archives in Liverpool.
There may be some details in the ships Logbook depends on if it was destroyed in the attack. If you cannot get to Kew. Try obtaing the Narritive Pages by post or e-mail.
Go to.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8197512&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2C161082&accessmethod=0&Summary=True
and hit Obtaining and Viewing options
Her official number for search purposes was 161082.
Likewise try e-mailing
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/subjectView.asp?ID=B10859
There is book called The "Bibby Line 1807-1990: A Story of Wars, Booms and Slumps"
I don't know if there is any information about the attack in the book but I suspect if there were it would be minimal. When ships are sunk then theres loads of info. Damaged. That's another story.
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There are downloadable pre 1941 records for him on the Find my Past website
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/merchant-navy-seamen/results?event=S&recordCount=-1&otherDataSet=2%3A41&forenames=john&includeForenamesVariants=true&_includeForenamesVariants=on&surname=miller&_includeSurnameVariants=on&county=&place=&birthYear=1916&birthYearTolerance=5&x=21&y=13
Tanks again for this seaweed, those three items were not in my collection! I have passed this on to John's nephew.
Chris
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My late father was an 18 year old artificer in the Fleet Air Arm who was taking passage on the Staffordshire en route to Ceylon.
There were a number in his draft who had passed out early from RAF Halton due to the onset of hostilities.
He told about the attack, which was unsurprisingly a very big deal for a lad of such tender years. One of his mates was killed (named Peters) and one lost a leg. "Tarz" Eastmann, who was apparently a great sportsman.
The main thing i remamber was that the senior naval officer was travelling with his wife and children and one of the kids was killed. The officer was wounded (may have lost a foot?).
He also remembered a senior NCO (RN) who put some steel in a few young backbones that day with some well timed verbals.
He wrote an account once, which i have filed away somewhere and was i think in the Sea Breezes magazine about twenty years ago.
It is a humbling reminder of the quiet courage that won the war in thousands of forgotten actions like this one
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"My late father was an 18 year old artificer in the Fleet Air Arm who was taking passage on the Staffordshire en route to Ceylon.
There were a number in his draft who had passed out early from RAF Halton due to the onset of hostilities.
He told about the attack, which was unsurprisingly a very big deal for a lad of such tender years. One of his mates was killed (named Peters) and one lost a leg. "Tarz" Eastmann, who was apparently a great sportsman.
The main thing i remamber was that the senior naval officer was travelling with his wife and children and one of the kids was killed. The officer was wounded (may have lost a foot?).
He also remembered a senior NCO (RN) who put some steel in a few young backbones that day with some well timed verbals.
He wrote an account once, which i have filed away somewhere and was i think in the Sea Breezes magazine about twenty years ago.
It is a humbling reminder of the quiet courage that won the war in thousands of forgotten actions like this one"
Thank you for that, I shall pass this on to my Miller relatives as I am sure they will find this as interesting as I did.
Chris
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From my Miller Cousins I now have copy of a letter written by one of John's shipmates written in 1941 about what happened. My next action is to trace him or a relative. He was/is J. P. Robson of 48 Ormonde Street, Sunderland.
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My grandfather E F Don was aboard this vessel on his way to his family home in Ceylon. His body was never found.
Has anyone followed up on archives of passengers, etc?
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My 1st cousin 2 x removed was on this ship also and was one of the missing, he is commemorated at the Tower Hill Memorial, he was an assistant steward, Walter Joseph Povall of Liverpool.
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I found another document recently, which I passed on to the Millers, you may find it interesting. If I remember when I get home from this visit I shall look it out and post it.
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My father was onboard as a Fleet Air Arm newly qualified Artificer taking passage to Ceylon. A few of his draft were killed and one lost a leg.
He was 18 years old at the time.
He spoke warmly of the crew and how they dealt with the situation.
There was an RN officer on board with his wife and children and one of the kids was killed
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Hi Chris
I stumbled across this thread while researching the pilot of a Focke Wulf Condor, which claimed the sinking of a ship on the same date and in the same area as the Staffordshire was attacked on 28 March 1941. There is an image in the photo album belonging to 'my' man, showing a ship under attack and captioned with the aircraft crew names. I am no expert on ships but it looks to me like it could be the Staffordshire. The crew of the aircraft were: Commander Lieutenant Robert Maly, Pilot Oberfeldwebel Karl Gendner, Radio Operator Wiedmann, Radio Operator ? (illegible), Flight Engineer Gollon. The aircraft belonged to 3. Staffel of KG 40.
Best wishes
Tim O.
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My grandmother, Joyce Violet Thomas, was aboard the Staffordshire, and was taken to Stornoway on the Sama. Her aunt took down her account of events from being aboard ship to her return to London, and the file is attached. I'm sure all will find it interesting. My late father added some extra info about the attack and the Sama.
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Hi Amanda
How interesting .My grandmother was also on the Staffordshire and survived and i think referred to in the account you posted as her cabin companion.
David P
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My grandmother, Joyce Violet Thomas, was aboard the Staffordshire, and was taken to Stornoway on the Sama. Her aunt took down her account of events from being aboard ship to her return to London, and the file is attached. I'm sure all will find it interesting. My late father added some extra info about the attack and the Sama.
That was very interesting, thank you for sharing it.
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Hi Chris
I stumbled across this thread while researching the pilot of a Focke Wulf Condor, which claimed the sinking of a ship on the same date and in the same area as the Staffordshire was attacked on 28 March 1941. There is an image in the photo album belonging to 'my' man, showing a ship under attack and captioned with the aircraft crew names. I am no expert on ships but it looks to me like it could be the Staffordshire. The crew of the aircraft were: Commander Lieutenant Robert Maly, Pilot Oberfeldwebel Karl Gendner, Radio Operator Wiedmann, Radio Operator ? (illegible), Flight Engineer Gollon. The aircraft belonged to 3. Staffel of KG 40.
Best wishes
Tim O.
Thank you, Tim. That is brilliant
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My grandmother, Joyce Violet Thomas, was aboard the Staffordshire, and was taken to Stornoway on the Sama. Her aunt took down her account of events from being aboard ship to her return to London, and the file is attached. I'm sure all will find it interesting. My late father added some extra info about the attack and the Sama.
Thank you. This is brilliant. I've passed it on to my cousins