RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: epighany on Monday 05 December 11 02:09 GMT (UK)
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Hello All! I just joined this site. I am in the middle of doing my family tree and I have done to my great grandparents and now I am stuck. I joined Ancestry.com and that wasn't any help either. I am mainly doing this task to find out my true nationalities. Any suggestions??? I am very grateful for your help! :-[
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Why don't you post the names, birth/marriage/death date and places which you know to be definite then state exactly what it is you want to find out/need to go back further. If you also have them on any census then give the references for these if you know them.
There are plenty of people on RootsChat standing by waiting to help. :)
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;D Thank you so much!!! I appreciate your help!!
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Hi,
Welcome to Rootschat ..... genealogy can be very addictive and not to mention expensive as well.
Just to say that names of living people are not allowed on posts.
Good luck in your search. :)
Cheers
KHP
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okie dokie.............. :o
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okey dokey
we need the info
oops
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I posted it already on a new topic, but I'll put it on here give me a minute too find it.
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I am at a stand still. My Grandfather James E Gross had a different mother than his siblings. All I know is her maiden name is Porter. They lived in Woodstown, NJ (Salem County) his father's name is Hildrith Gross born 1889 in Maryland. I don't know when he died. This is one of my hurdles. Thank you!!
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This is the other posting. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,569854.0.html
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Just to give some background to your family
1930 census
Hildrith Gross 40 born Maryland Parents born Maryland occ brazier? in glassworks
Bella M Gross wife 32 born New Jersey father born delaware, mother New Jersey occupation dress ?
James E Gross son 19 born New Jersey Dye worker
Oakford L Gross 16 glass worker NJ
Coreen E Gross dau 6 NJ
Hannah V Thomas sister in law 31 New Jersey general servant
There is a big gap between Oakford's birth and Coreen's. Is Bella Hildrith's second wife? Do you know of any children other than these?
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This site gives information about obtaining New Jersey birth certificates. http://www.state.nj.us/health/vital/gen.shtml
There are others I found by googling.
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Hildreth's WWI Draft Registration Card from 5 Jun. 1917 unfortunately only indicates that he was born 1889 and the place of birth was Eastern Shore, Maryland. It says he was living on Salem Rd., Salem Co., New Jersey, married with 2 children, a farm laborer, and working for John F. Gosling, Mannington, New Jersey. His race was listed as African and he was medium height and build with black hair, not bald, brown eyes, and no disabilities. It appears that he marked an X for his signature, so he was probably not literate.
On the 1930 Census, it appears that Hildrith's age was 40 and his age at first marriage was 27. His wife (who appears to be Della, not Bella) is listed as age 32 and her age at 1st marriage was 19. That seems to be consistent with a marriage 13 years earlier.
Hildreth, Della, and the 2 older children are together on the 1920 Census as shown here: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M4Y6-DPJ
There is a Social Security Death Index entry for Della Gross, born 6 Apr. 1897, died Jul. 1973, last residence Salem, New Jersey. Might that be her? Sometimes finding the death of the spouse can lead to more information about a person's death, via cemetery records if they are buried together or via obituary.
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1910 Hildrith is in Mannington age 21 and a servant
occupation is form work - which goes along with being a brazier
says on this one he is from Virginia and both parents are from Virginia? he is of mixed race
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don't know whether its worth mentioning..
on familysearch NJ county marriages there is a marriage for a
Joseph Hildreth FOGG and Ann E Patrick 13 March 1878 in Salem.
I'm wondering whether Goss and Fogg may actually be the same name if they were illiterate it may be so...
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another aside...
there is an adopted daughter called Della M Porter living in Maryland 1930 with a Samuel HUDSON family
she was born about 1911
maybe an illigitimate daughter?
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aha a break through... sometimes you need to look sideways, I searched for the sister Hannah V in Salem
1900 US census - mannington, Salem NJ
Jacob Wilson 49 farm labourer NJ
Elizabeth A Wilson 36 Delaware married 15 years 7 children
William H Wilson 14 NJ
Charles A Wilson 12 NJ
Lottie R Wilson 10 NJ
Nathaniel S Wilson 8 NJ
Oakford L Wilson 6 NJ
Della M Wilson 3 NJ
Hannah V Wilson 1 NJ
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Blimey I am so happy with what you found out. According to my mom my Grandfather James E Gross his mom was a Porter and Corrine and Oakford's mom was from a 2nd marriage. I am viiewing this on my cell and on my way home to look on the computer. Is there a way to find out what the mixed race was? This is my sole purpose for doing this tree. Thank you for all the info!!!
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1910 Mannington Salem NJ
Jacob Wilson 50 farm worker
Elisabeth Wilson 46 NJ
Charles A Wilson 23 NJ
Lottie Wilson 18 NJ
Nathan Wilson 17 NJ
Oakford Wilson 15 NJ
Ella Wilson 13 (actually Della on the census image) NJ
Hannah Wilson 10 NJ
Clide Wilson 8 NJ
Clarence Wilson 3 grandson Nj
George Mathews 46 boarder
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So far it only says Hildrith is Mulatto (mixed race) on once census form.
I guess whoever filled in the census form either knew something about his history or just worked it out if he was a slightly lighter colour than his neighbours.
you would have to go right back to find out more, possibly to slavery times.
Hildrith's name is a real mix and I was mislead a few times. There is a place called Hildreth near Salem so the name appears to be quite common in that area ??? Gross is a Germanic name which I'm not convinced is his correct name. Many German farmers headed for New Jersey so he may well have taken up a new name there.
I don't envy you your search, its going to be hard
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I think it would be worth your while trying to obtain the birth certificate for your grandfather James if you don't have a copy already. It should give the full name of his mother and hopefully father.
If Hildrith did have a first marriage it would have had to take place betwen 1910 and 1911 and likely to have been in Salem co, possibly Mannington.
Perhaps you could also ask for a search for a marriage certificate, unfortunately I'm not finding anything online at the moment.
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Ok I am confused Della is adopted what does Hannah have to do in the picture?
aha a break through... sometimes you need to look sideways, I searched for the sister Hannah V in Salem
1900 US census - mannington, Salem NJ
Jacob Wilson 49 farm labourer NJ
Elizabeth A Wilson 36 Delaware married 15 years 7 children
William H Wilson 14 NJ
Charles A Wilson 12 NJ
Lottie R Wilson 10 NJ
Nathaniel S Wilson 8 NJ
Oakford L Wilson 6 NJ
Della M Wilson 3 NJ
Hannah V Wilson 1 NJ
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sorry, please ignore the message about the adopted daughter Della M Porter born 1911 I was trying to find a lead at the time.
In 1930, Hildrith Gross and Della have her sister staying with them, a Mrs Hannah V Thomas. As I couldn't find anything on Della, I looked for a Hannah V living in Mannington. As you can see from the family, she indeed had a sister called Della born in the right year, but also a brother called Oakford... I would assume your grandfather's younger brother was named after him.
So second wife had a surname of Wilson, the only way of finding anything on your grandfather James is to buy some certificates as his mother doesn't appear with him in any of the census.
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Oh OK holly poop this is really going to be confusing!!! Thank you for the help! I know my Mom has a lot of the birth and death certificates. After I am finished researching this side then onto my father's. I know that is going to be a doozey! I don't know anything past him really and my mom has vague info on that.
Thank you again for your help!!
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I have a new problem I hope you can help me out with.... my Grandmother Doretha Anderson-Gross, I cannot find her mother's maiden name all I know its Cora and she was born around 1876 and married David Anderson in 1890. I am also stuck with finding his parents as well. I would appreciate any help
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hi again epighany,
Do you have the marriage cert for Dorethea Anderson-Gross and David Anderson? This will give you her father's name then it might be possible to trace his marriage to Cora, if they married.
We can then trace them through the US fed census up to the latest census available (1930), bearing in mind that unfortunately the 1890 census was mostly destroyed.
When posting a request please add the place they were born and where you expected them roughly live. It helps RC helpers enormously in the search!
I'm not sure if you know, but the US BMD (vital) records work in a different way to ones we have here in England. In England, after registering a BMD in the local registrars office, the data is then collected in a central deposit which we call the GRO. We can then apply to the GRO for a copy of the relevant cert.
In America and Canada, each state has its own vital records office (you can find it by googling the state or town + vital records). They are not centralised anywhere and there are no indexes published on the web :( Once you have an approximate date and place, you apply to the state vital records office. I believe you were given the link earlier in this thread for the one you were looking for.
www.familysearch.org has some baptismal/marriage/burial records but it does depend on the religious denomination on what is held and each state varies on how much data is on familysearch.
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I'm confused
You said earlier, your grandfather was called James E Gross born c1911 NJ
You now have a grandmother called Dorethea Anderson-Gross born 1876, who married a David Anderson c1890? Having found James and his family through 1900-1930 I can't see the names Dorethea anywhere. I think I am missing something somewhere ???
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ok, I think I may have worked it out....
James Gross married Dorothea Anderson sometime after 1930 am I right? if so this is Dorothea with her parents, David and Cora Anderson in Salem NJ
1930 US Fed census
Oala or Oak st (I can't make the name out on the census image)
Salem NJ
David Anderson 59 age at marriage 22
Cora Anderson 54 age at marriage 17
Doretha Anderson daughter19
Edith Anderson daughter 16
Robert Benson boarder
Thomas Clinton boarder
Paul Clark
I can't make out David's occupation ???
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1900 US Fed census
Mannington Salem NJ
David J Anderson 32 day laborer
Cora A Anderson 26
Edna A Anderson 10
Iola B Anderson 9
Amanda B Anderson 6
Down as married 10 years which confirms your assessment of a 1890 marriage
1910 US Fed census
Mannington Salem NJ
David Anderson 42 farm labor
Cora Anderson 38 wash woman
Wiola Anderson 18
Amanda Anderson 15
Authar O Anderson 6
Doretha Anderson 6/12
It says they had been married 22 years; 9 children born but only 5 living, how sad.
interestingly all the other census say they are black but the 1910 census say they are mulatto (mixed race)
1920 US Fed Census
OAK Street, Salem NJ
David Anderson 47 laborer at the Oil ?
Cora Anderson 45
Theressa Anderson 10
Edith Anderson 8
Horace Wells 27 boarder
William Rose 44 boarder
Charles Adams 23 boarder
Dorethea has a name change! she is down as Theressa on this census!
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hmm... again I think you will need to apply for the marriage cert for David and Cora Anderson.
I was hoping there would have been a Cora A ... age 4 living in Mannington, Salem in 1880 but the nearest one I could find was a Cora Johnson aged 10 months. which would mean she was only 11 when she married! There are a few other Coras living in Salem but the only other non white one is age 2 living with her Grandmother (Cora Jones) in Pilesgrove Salem
the Pilesgrove Cora might be the right one, I've just seen on wiki that Pilesgrove boarders Mannington
I can't find a non white David Anderson living anywhere in NJ of the right age :( sorry.
ps... my paternal grandmother was also called Dorothea Anderson but she came from England, small world isn't it! :D
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I'm wondering if David went by another first name in 1880
here are the possible black Anderson families living in Mannington at the time
1880 census
Charles Anderson 60 laborer
Jane Anderson 58 keeps house
Emma J. Anderson 35 daughter laborer
Henry Anderson 7 grandchild
Ervin Anderson 5 grandchild
or this family
Isaac Anderson 45
Maria Anderson 33
Isaac W. Anderson 14
William H. Anderson 10 xxx not him as I found him later but does have a daughter called dorothy too
Warren Anderson 8 xxx not him also found him in 1920
Cornelia Anderson 3
next door
spencer Anderson 32
Annie Anderson 28
Isabella 9
Charles 6
Mary 2
also a little further down
Stephen W Anderson 28
Mary P Anderson 21
Stephen W 3
Sarah E 2
Caroline Anderson 70 MOTHER
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You might be interested in downloading this Salem County Directory for 1913
Your grandfather hildrith is down as Heil, next to his name is a womans name... Lydia
http://distantcousin.com/directories/nj/salemcounty/1913/Pages.asp?Page=054
oh my... read the heading on page 51, which describes how the entries are laid out! :o
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http://www.manningtontwp.com/offices.html
scroll down to vital statistics for information on how to apply for BMDs