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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cavan => Topic started by: elsinore on Friday 02 December 11 16:26 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to find out more about the following family:
Mary McDONALD
Birth: 1876 in Mount Nugent, Co. Cavan, Southern Ireland
Spouses and Children
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1. *William Owen SIMPSON (7 Jul 1867 -)
Marriage: 1892 - Dublin
Children:
1. Bill SIMPSON ( -1927)
2. Arthur Edmund SIMPSON (1907- )
3. May SIMPSON ( - )
4. Winifred Abigail SIMPSON ( - )
5. Doris SIMPSON ( - )
6. Frank SIMPSON ( - )
General:
She ran away from home and married against her parents wishes at 16.
Thanks
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not sure what documentation you have already, but I'd start with the marriage cert for Mary and William, or do you already have that ?
A civil record of the marriage should show their places of residence at the time of marriage, and the names and occupations of their fathers.
see: Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Shane
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Are you trying to work backwards (find information on McDonald family) or backwards (trace Mary and her descendants)?
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Hello,
Thanks for your replies. I am trying to find out more about the family of William Owen Simpson & Mary McDonald. It is the Simpson family that I am interested in. I know about his parents but just wanted more details about this couple. A family member told me they married in Dublin in 1892 and that Mary was 16 and had run away from home. Could she have married at 16 without her parents permission?
I can't find a marriage as yet?
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Have you found them on the 1911 census - were the family in Ireland at that time ?
Shane
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Hi Shane,
I've looked on the 1911 census but can't find them.
There is a birth for an Arthur Edmund SIMPSON in 1907 Belfast which would fit.
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you need a definite starting point to get going...maybe that birth cert would be worth a try to see if it fits. Do you know where any of the other children were born ?
If William and Mary were in Ireland during 1901 then they should presumably appear on as a couple on the 1901 census also - but I dont see any likely matches. Was William born in Co. Cavan also - do you know his occupation ?
Shane
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The closest match I see on the 1911 census is this family in Co. Cork - William and Mary Simpson - except the ages dont agree with your details, and this Mary is listed as born Co. Cork
One daughter at home named Mary born Co. Cork, and one other child not at home. William's occupation is Land Steward and the couple are married about 20 years - so c1891
Simpson household (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Carrigrohane_Beg/Woodside/382726/)
Shane
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Shane,
I don't think this is correct as there should have been more children. e.g. Arthur Edmund born 1907. Also this Mary is 10 years older than William and the story in the family is that Mary was aged 16 when married.
Thanks for sending it anyway.
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It's the only William Simpson born Co. Cavan I can find on the 1911 returns... there's none on the 1901 returns of anywhere near the correct age that I can see. Can you post details on William, e.g. his parents names, occupation, where William was born - you mentioned you already had details on his line..
Shane
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Shane,
I'm not sure what has happened here but I posted all these and it isn't showing on the list. So here goes again.
William Owen was born 7 Jul 1867 Dinapore, India - his father William Henry Simpson was in the army.
The only connection with Ireland that I can see is when the Regiment was posted to Kingston in 1879 then 1880 went via Dublin to Newry & Londonderry. William Henry was discharged at Dublin in 1881.
On the 1891 census in Durham, England - William Owen Simpson was aged 24 and a rope maker.
How he came to marry a girl from Ireland - I don't know
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Just found some more information.
William Owen Simpson died Dec Q 1933 in Grimsby, Lincolnshire. Most of his children married in Grimsby as well.
So I now know where they were in the 1920s but no sign of them on the 1901 & 1911 census.
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There are a few Simpsons born in India on the 1901 and 1911 Irish census - but nothing even close for William
All the locations involved make a marriage search difficult - but I had a quick check on the BMD Index in the Dublin City and County Districts (Dublin North, Dublin South, Rathdown and Balrothery) and didn't see any likely matches ... do you know where this clue about the 1892 Dublin marriage came from ?
p.s. Have you also checked the English census returns for 1901 and 1911 ?
Shane
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Hi Shane,
Thanks for your reply.
I have searched the English census but the name William Simpson is quite common and the ages don't always agree with mine BUT the information I have is from family members who are now deceased.
But I have got to thank you Shane because indirectly you have led me to find the missing family who lived in Grimsby. We knew about a family who looked after my mother-in-law when she was ill as a very young child (about 1925). All she knew was that he was a shipbuilder at Grimsby.
I will put a message on the Lincolnshire list to see if anyone has a Grimsby Directory about 1920/30 to see if there is a William Simpson. It could be that he went to Ireland on business and met Mary.
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Just found a possible baptism for Mary McDonald on the IGI:
Possible birth on IGI: Mary McDonald bapt 30 May 1876 Behernagh (10 miles from Mount Nugent) parents Patrick McDonald & Mary Brogan
If anyone is researching this family and find a Mary missing about 1892 - it could be that she ran away from home and married William Simpson!
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Hello,
I am trying to find out more about the following family:
Mary McDONALD
Birth: 1876 in Mount Nugent, Co. Cavan, Southern Ireland
Spouses and Children
~~~~~~~~
1. *William Owen SIMPSON (7 Jul 1867 -)
Marriage: 1892 - Dublin
Children:
1. Bill SIMPSON ( -1927)
2. Arthur Edmund SIMPSON (1907- )
3. May SIMPSON ( - )
4. Winifred Abigail SIMPSON ( - )
5. Doris SIMPSON ( - )
6. Frank SIMPSON ( - )
General:
She ran away from home and married against her parents wishes at 16.
Thanks
Hi
My Grandmother was Winifred Abigail Simpson 1897-1951
mary mcdonald is also my great grandmother
I do remember my father telling me they did come from Ireland then came over to Grimsby as a family. I need to find my emails from my only living Aunt who is in her 80's but still has a lot of memories
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I have some more information
William Simpson my g/grandfather 1868-1933
Mary McDonald 1869- ?1936 on my cousins tree says she was born in Newcastle England maybe it was her ancestors on the run
William father is John Simpson 1825- born Sheffield (were I'm living now)
Williams mother is Mary? born1834
William had many children willie (bill) Simpson 1893, Winifred 1897- 1952 my grandmother.
I have a photo of William Simpson that I've just pinched from my cousins tree
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Welcome to Rootschat, Diamond65. There seem to be quite a few bits of misleading information already on this thread (and using them isn't making the search easier). Just started looking but will start by posting what can be found in records.
Possible births for some of the children-
Birth: Frank Simpson, Jan./Mar.1893 Glanford Brigg dist., volume 7a page 679
Birth: Winifred Abigail Simpson, Jan./Mar.1897 Glanford Brigg district (Lincolnshire) volume 7a page 744
Birth: Doris Maud Simpson, July/Sept.1898 Glanford Brigg dist. volume 7a page 711
Birth: Arthur Simpson, Jan./Mar.1902 Glanford Brigg dist., volume 7a page 682
In 1901 this family are in Barton, Glanford Brigg registration district-
William Simpson 33 born Sheffield Yorks.
Mary Simpson 34 born Newcastle on Tyne
Willie Simpson 8 born Sunderland Co.Durham
Winnifred Simpson 4 born Barton on Humber Lincs
Doris Simpson 2 born Barton on Humber Lincs
Arthur Simpson 10 mo. born Barton on Humber Lincs
Any other records I can find show no connection to Ireland for William Simpson, wife Mary and children.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Hi Aghadowey
I think your information is right as I belief Mary was born in Newcastle according to my cousin's family Tree, but if I remember rightly there is some link to Ireland but can't remember my Father's correct information
Winifred Simpson my late grandmother married Clarence crosskill had 3 children Eva, Leslie and Rowland crosskill who is my late father they all came from Grimsby/cleethorpes
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Yes, fairly certain I'd found the right Simpson family.
Here's Winnie Simpson in LDS database- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7YV-8S1
We aren't allowed to do lookups from 1911 English census but if you check the banner across the top of the Home page here you should see an announcement about searching it for free. Search there for Winnie Simpson and you should find more details of the family.
To go back towards the start of this thread-
There is a birth for an Arthur Edmund SIMPSON in 1907 Belfast which would fit.
No, because his parents were Charles William Henry & Emily Jane Simpson.
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Dear Diamond65,
You and my husband are 3rd cousins.
William Owen Simpson was born 7 Jul 1867 in Dinapore, India and baptised 22 Jul 1867 in Dinapore. William Owen Simpson was the son of William Henry Simpson & Margaret Kelly.
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Sorry elsinore but there's still a problem here.
You have William Owen Simpson born 7 July 1867 in India, son of William Henry Simpson & Margaret Kelly.
At the start you said he married Mary McDonald (born 1876) 1892 in Dublin, Ireland and had: Bill, Arthur Edmund (1907), May, Winnifred Abigail, Doris and Frank
Arthur Edmund born 1907 (Belfast) is not from the same family and the William & Mary don't seem to have gotten married in Ireland. Winnifred Abigail certainly belongs to the family of Diamond65.
If you re-read reply #17 I posted enough details to show that Diamond65's William Simpson was born in Yorkshire, not India, and his wife in Newcastle on Tyne, not Cavan.
It might be a good idea to go back through records step by step to see if 1) these are the same family and some of your family information isn't accurate or 2) these are too separate William Simpsons married to a Mary.
If you want to post any known children of your William Owen Simpson we can check through available records to try to sort out the confusion.
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Hello,
Sorry about the confusion - I amended the details I had about the family since my first post. The original confusion came about because of a story in the family:
"She ran away from home and married against her parents wishes at 16. The problem was probably caused by religion as Mary was Catholic and William wasn't although he was baptised in a Catholic Church."
The age 16 and the marriage in Dublin in 1892 fitted in with the story as did the Mary McDonald born 1876 Mount Nugent Co Cavan.
This is what I have now:
Descendants of William Owen SIMPSON
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1-William Owen SIMPSON
born: 7 Jul 1867, Army Married Quarters, Dinapore, India
died: 9 Oct 1933, Grimsby, Lincolnshire
+Mary McDONALD
born: 1867, Newcastle on Tyne
marr: 1892, Dublin ??????
died: 24 Nov 1918, (Scartho Road Cemetery, Grimsby)
parents:
|-----2-William SIMPSON
| born: 1892
| died: 5 Dec 1927, Hull Royal Infirmary
|-----2-Frank S. SIMPSON
| born: Jan 1893, Glanford Brigg District, Lincolnshire
| died:
|-----2-Winifred Abigail SIMPSON
| born: Jan 1897, Glanford Brigg District, Lincolnshire
| died:
|-----2-Doris Maud SIMPSON
| born: Jul 1898, Glanford Brigg District, Lincolnshire
| died:
|-----2-Arthur Edmund SIMPSON
| born: Sep 1900, Glanford Brigg District, Lincolnshire
| died:
|-----2-May SIMPSON
born:
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Hello,
I had an idea and looked at the ages of his parents and find that William Simpson snr. married Margaret Kelly on the 27th Nov 1865 at Wellington, India. His wife Margaret Kelly was born 1851 making her 14 years of age at marriage. Margaret Kelly's father was Irish. This could have been where the story in the family came from.
I have now found a better match for William jnr. marriage to Mary McDonald:
Dec 1891, Sunderland, 10a, 958
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Hi Elsinore
Thought you was kind of related. so my Dad would be your Husbands great Uncle, wow
The story I was told that William (i think) had been a stowaway on a ship, he arrived in England
we have an Aunt by marriage in cleethorpes and already sent her an email for more info
fingers crossed eh,
Will have to try and work it all out now
Thank you Aghadowey for your help, as the family move around you loose contact with them
Then when you want to know about the History It's too late
P.S on winifred birth certificate it states William simpson was a rope maker (looks like journeyman)
lived at fleetgate barton
Kath
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Dear Kath,
Your dad would be my husband's 2nd cousin once removed.
How strange you had the story of the stowaway! The story in my husband's family is that William Simpson snr born 1840 was first sent to serve on his uncle's ship in Plymouth. He was treated badly so jumped ship and joined the army. There was also talk about treasure in the West Indies! It appears that two of his children went looking for this treasure.
My mother-in-law remembers going to Grimsby to convalesce when she was aged 4. She remembers a big house with servants. She also remembers this Grimsby family visiting Huddersfield and staying in a posh hotel.
Looking forward to hearing what your aunt remembers about the family.
Linda