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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: robbo43 on Friday 02 September 11 16:59 BST (UK)
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Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere on the forum. There is an e-petition on the Government website requesting that the GRO be permitted to issue uncertified copies of certificates by e-mail or download, hopefully at a lower cost than the current certified paper copies. It could do with people signing it if it is to get anywhere.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1792
Robert
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Signed
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Thanks Robert
lets hope more people sign up. Kit :)
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signed :)
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Signed.
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Already signed, but I doubt if it will get anywhere because of 'security concerns'.
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There is an e-petition to the UK Government asking them to release historic Birth, Marriage, and Death certificates for viewing online. At present the GRO can issue only certified copies of BMD certificates, and they cost £9.25 each. This petition asks for legislation to allow them to issue uncertified copies much more cheaply for historical research.
They need 100,000 signatures. Mine is one. If you are a UK citizen, will you add yours? It on ly takes a few moments, and we all stand to benefit.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6988
Moderators: should this be posted to all the county boards, because there are probably many people who don't routinely visit the Common Room and won't see it here?
Moderator Comment: topics merged;
No, we will not allow copying it everywhere. It crops up everywhere already
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Done.
Thank you for enlightening us all of this great petition.
Kaz
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I realise that this is for UK citizens, but is it OK for others to add their signature, as I am sure there are people in other countries who would like to purchase certificates at a cheaper rate, as well? Having many ancestors with UK roots, it would be most convenient to be able to obtain the necessary information, especially if it could be viewed first to ensure you are getting the correct certificate.
Narelle
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Are you aware of this petition which is very similar? It has many more signatures already, but is still a long way from the required 100,000. I've seen several threads on RC about this one already.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1792
I don't think any of them will reach 100,000 if there are lots of petitions trying to accomplish the same thing - we need all 100,000 on one petition.
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Aust is part of the British Empire [although going through customs in Eng you would think we are from mars) lol.
It asks what country you are from and has a list to scroll to find your country ie Australia.
It has accepted my signature.
>>>>I realise that this is for UK citizens, but is it OK for others to add their signature, as I am sure there are people in other countries who would like to purchase certificates at a cheaper rate, as well? <<<<<
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It asks whether you are a British citizen or UK resident, and you must check 'yes' to sign it. I live in the States but I am a British citizen so was able to sign it.
In this case it is understandable why 'foreigners' might want to sign it, but for most petitions you wouldn't just want anyone in the world to be able to sign. So I think it makes sense that all petitions are restricted to British citizens or residents.
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Are you aware of this petition which is very similar?
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1792
I don't think any of them will reach 100,000 if there are lots of petitions trying to accomplish the same thing - we need all 100,000 on one petition.
So sign them all!
Actually, I just tred to, and it would not accept my signature because it said that my e-mail had already been used for this petition. So it seems to be the same one, or to have been rollod together with it.
Which begs two an interesting questions
(a) if you share an e-mail address with someone else (I know lots of couples who have one e-mail address between them) does this mean that only one of you can sign?
(b) if you have several e-mail addresses, how do they prevent you signing more than once?
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Someone has started an e petition that is worthy of support:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1792
Research Copies for Birth, Marriage & Death Certificates for Genealogical Research Purposes
Under current legislation, the GRO can only "release this information by means of the issue of a paper certified copy Cert of the relevant entry, and payment of the relevant statutory fee for a certified copy." We request that this House enacts legislation to allow the General Register Office of England and Wales the ability to issue "uncertified" research copies of birth, marriage and death certs - with a notice on the copies that they are uncertified, and have no legal authority - and that these may be obtained at a much lower cost than the current £9.25 per cert (eg £2) when ordered on-line and the GRO Index Ref is Provided, and that these may be issued in a electronic (email) format or a plain paper in the same way as The Rep of Ireland; this would enable family historians to buy many certs for their research at a lower cost" In the Republic of Ireland you can ask for an uncertified copy from Roscommon (their version of GRO) for €4.
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Very poor site - I can't tell if I've signed ten times or not at all - the security symbols (to prevent spam) were either unreadable or contained symbols I don't have, but each time it seemed to be rejected!
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Just signed it. Had to refresh the anti spam symbols a couple of times to get ones I could read. If you get an automatic email, then you know it has gone through. You need to click the link in the email before your signature is added.
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I have had problems it keeps rejecting my e-mail address
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Someone started the petition 3 months ago, and since it has only attracted just under 5000 signatures in that time, it's unlikely to reach 100,000 by August 2012. Are there 100,000 people actively engaged in serious genealogy in the UK ?
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I signed this yesterday - no problems.
Let's keep this one to the top of the pile. Get signing everyone and pass it on to your contacts.
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Just dunnit, no prob.
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I signed it a while ago - how many signatures has it reached now?
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Just signed it. Number of signatures now at 4,462. Keep it up :)
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I wonder how many completed the GRO survey a few months ago.
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Done :)
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Signed....Good Luck !
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Signed :)
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Signed.
It is now at 4511, still a long way to go.
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I went to sign this petition, I have never signed a petition on line before, but I discovered I have apparently already signed it! Has this happened to anyone else. I have to say I find it quite concerning.
Regard sarenid
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This e-petition has been running for some time now, and has been posted on Roots Chat on several occasions. You've probably already signed, then forgotten about it.
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Would sign - not a UK resident thus it doesn't allow me :-\
Hope this passes but my wallet doesn't.
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Yes I also signed.
As at today 4609 have signed.
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Signed by me. Figure stands at 8343 today - not enough yet.
Alan
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So all of you who signed now want the UK Tax Payer to subsidise your hobby.
When the GRO produces any certificate it takes the same amount of time. Last year they lost staff, and do you not think that reducing the costs for a 'certified certificate' would just result in more job losses in an area of already high unemployment.
The GRO is there to act as the main repository for the English & Welsh BMDs. It is not there just to assist us in our hobby. At present they are self financing, so a reduction in prodoucing 'hobby' certificates would mean that the poor old British Tax payer would be hit again.
I have several hobbies, from Family History to Reading and listening to music. I certainly do not expect anyone else to subsidise my hobby. But if anyone would like to subsidise my reading hobby by partly paying for my books I would be more than happy.
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Hi
This debate has occurred many times on here, and I'm not sure we need it again.
These petitions have been going for many many months now, and are never going to reach the required number of signatures. So you've no need to worry, it's not going to happen.
Alexander
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Good old positivity ;D
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I try my best ;) :D
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Freckneale, perhaps you'd like to take a look at the early posts on this thread which set out exactly what family historians are asking for here from the GRO. We just want the GRO to be able to issue uncertified copies of original BMDs. Personally, I really don't need a nicely handwritten certified copy of these certificates which of course will command more time and money from the GRO. Surely you can see that a copy of the original, especially a digital one, is going to take far less time and money to produce? Not only that, if this were possible and the cost came down, the GRO would be quids in because the demand for such a service, in my opinion, would be so great. Simple economics.
The GRO, and indeed Register Offices, perhaps need to recognise the difference between the needs of family historians and those of the general public when it comes to requests for copy certificates. It's not rocket science and it could benefit them in the long run.
Janet ::)
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Freckneale, perhaps you'd like to take a look at the early posts on this thread which set out exactly what family historians are asking for here from the GRO. We just want the GRO to be able to issue uncertified copies of original BMDs. Personally, I really don't need a nicely handwritten certified copy of these certificates which of course will command more time and money from the GRO. Surely you can see that a copy of the original, especially a digital one, is going to take far less time and money to produce? Not only that, if this were possible and the cost came down, the GRO would be quids in because the demand for such a service, in my opinion, would be so great. Simple economics.
I agree entirely - I never expressed any opinion to the contrary. ???
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Freckneale I'm really sorry I addressed my comment to the wrong person! Oops! It was intended as a reply to Plummiegirl's comment :
So all of you who signed now want the UK Tax Payer to subsidise your hobby.
When the GRO produces any certificate it takes the same amount of time. Last year they lost staff, and do you not think that reducing the costs for a 'certified certificate' would just result in more job losses in an area of already high unemployment.
The GRO is there to act as the main repository for the English & Welsh BMDs. It is not there just to assist us in our hobby. At present they are self financing, so a reduction in prodoucing 'hobby' certificates would mean that the poor old British Tax payer would be hit again.
I have several hobbies, from Family History to Reading and listening to music. I certainly do not expect anyone else to subsidise my hobby. But if anyone would like to subsidise my reading hobby by partly paying for my books I would be more than happy.
I think the argument you put forward here, Plummiegirl, does not make sense any at all. All I can say is perhaps the GRO needs a good shake up and to get someone in who understands simple economics and has, at the very least, a little bit of forward vision. No subsidies from the tax payer required!
Janet
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I don't know about the GRO but I've seen a local office receive a request form, take payment, retrieve the register and hand over a freshly signed legal certificate in 10 minutes.
A good percentage of the people requesting certificates will, more than likely, be A taxpayer.
Not THE taxpayer, whoever he or she might be.
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I think there might be a slight difference between a local office and the GRO with regard to the number of records held. Therefore the time to retrieve would be much shorter.
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At the GRo the Records are kept in an archive, the books or films have to be ordered up and then they make the copy.
At a registrars, they go to the registration book, then from this they can get the correct copy from their books. Unless they have all their records on computer (which some do) then they can pull up record from there and then go to their copy book and reprint. A far quicker way, but then they will have only the records from their office. Unlike the GRO who will have those from the entire country.
There was an article in one of the family history magazines about 1 year ago about the GRO and it really brought home just how big and busy they are.
I still think that £9.25 or is it £9.50 is cheap from the GRO. This is a flat rate. When ordering from registrars they are now charging more for the certificate and you have to pay P&P on top.
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I obviously made an error in my previous post where I said 'local office', leading perhaps to readers misunderstanding my meaning.
I should rather have indicated the County office where registers of BMDs are archived, admittedly in much fewer numbers that the GRO, but certainly not just a few books.
With a very good archiveing system, and a complement of staff who know what they are doing, certificates are issued in pretty quick time.
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I don't know about the GRO but I've seen a local office receive a request form, take payment, retrieve the register and hand over a freshly signed legal certificate in 10 minutes.
A good percentage of the people requesting certificates will, more than likely, be A taxpayer.
Not THE taxpayer, whoever he or she might be.
Truth is sometimes local offices are good, quick and efficient and at other times they can't cope.
On the heir hunters programme every now and then you hear the researchers talk disparagingly about a register office because they are slow or worst still won't do an instant lookup but put you in the three day queue.
I remember a few years back i went to the Bishops Auckland Office to get two death certificates (of people who died in the 1940's). It took the best part of two hours. I have no complaint against the staff they were working very hard its just that they had more work than they could deal with
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So effectively an English/Welsh version of scotlandspeople? I'm all for that :)
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Unfortunately it won't happen in the foreseeable future as the government has no plans to either discuss or implement a change in the current law.
This topic has been discussed on just about every genealogical forum there is.
As a change in the law is not imminent, I'm going to lock this topic from 2011 & 2012 to prevent it going round in circles again.
Dawn