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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Kayzee on Tuesday 29 November 11 11:52 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone tell me if there are still stone memorials at St Mary's Selly Oak? I am looking for the death dates of a small family in 1885, 1888 & 1909. If there are memorials, does anyone have or know of an index, I am looking for Alsops.
The burial register for those dates is not on microfilm. I know the simplest way is to order the death certificates, but I'm on a budget!
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I'm a mile or so away from St Mary's Church. No visible graveyard but the church is set quite a long way back from the main road. Lodge Hill cemetery is very very close so my guess would be that that is where recent burials will be found. I will take a closer look when I am next along there. Oliver
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Thank you Oliver, that's very kind.
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Lodge Hill Cemetery opened in 1895 so it is possible that the earlier burials were at St Marys. I was a member there until moving away from Birmingham in 1974. At that time there was quite a large burial area to the side and rear of the church, however even then it was in a poor state and many of the memorials were difficult to read.
Another point to remember Selly Oak, Worcestershire did not become a part of Birmingham until 1911.
Regards
Colin
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Thank you Colin for your help, the date is useful to know. I thought they might be buried in the churchyard because they were connected to the person who donated the land for the building of the church. When I visited the archives some years ago, I was unaware of the connection & annoyingly spent my time looking for them in graveyards and cemetaries near where they lived in Edgbaston.
I will try to keep the change of County in mind, such things are useful to know & I was unaware of it. The trouble with sporadic dips into family history I find is that sometimes you don't make best use of the tips & information, as little things get forgotten even tho' they might be the key!
Many thanks,
Kay
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Hi Kay,
Thank you for your reply.
Selly Oak came into being as a name around the time St Mary's was built in 1861, before that it was known as Selly in the parish of Northfield. With regards to the county they lived in would depend on their actual address as Edgbaston was in Warwick and Harborne in Staffs. Kings Norton etc. Worcs.
These websites might help.
http://billdargue.jimdo.com/placenames-gazetteer-a-to-y/places-s/selly-oak/
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=22916
If you would like to send names/dob/dates of the burials you are seeking, I could check on findmypast to see if they are listed.
Regards
Colin
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Thank you Colin, I am looking for:
Sarah Jessy Alsop/Allsop bn 1832, buried Jun qtr 1885
Ann Maria Alsop/Allsop bn 1807, buried Mch qtr 1888
John Alsop/Allsop bn 1829, buried Mch qtr 1909.
I know that John lived a reclusive life after his mother & sister died, so there may not be a memorial for him, but I find it hard to believe he did not have one erected to them.
Many thanks for your help,
Kay
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Hi Kay,
Sorry to say there are no burials for them on find my past.
I did find their death registrations and census returns.
I noticed that Ann Maria Wood first married Josiah Allsop and after he died George Howell. Her death index was in the name of Howell.
Ann Maria and Sarah were both registered in Kings Norton, Worcs.
That ties in with the 1881 census address of 81 Bristol Rd, Edgbaston.
As this is not far out of the city my guess that they would not be buried at St Mary's, Selly Oak, more likely St Marys, Whittall St or Key Hill Cemetery.
As for John, I could not locate him in 1891/1901 but his death was registered in Birmingham, so he was probably buried with his mother?
I note his brother Frederick married and moved to Glasgow, he then like John became an Artist.
It might help if you posted your request on the Birmingham History Forum. They may have someone who could do a look up for you. http://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/login
If I can be of any help please let me know.
Regards
Colin
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Thank you Colin. It is good to be reminded that Ann Maria was registered as Howell, I'd forgotten that! I think George Howell must have died in Jun qtr 1842 & their daughter Mary Ann in 1845, but Ann Maria reverted to the name of Alsop although her previous husband was Allsop.
I have checked the Key Hill Cemetary records, not sure about Whittall St., but my reason for thinking that they are buried at St. Mary's, Selly Oak is that they were connected to the Ledsams (Ledsam donated the land for the building of St Mary's church). John Alsop is known to have spent a lot of time on the Ledsams estate.
Thank you for the details of the Birmingham History Forum, I might try that.
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Hi Kay,
Sorry I could not be of more help.
I was a Server, Sidesman and member of the PCC at St Mary's for a number of years and remember the Ledsam & Elkington connections.
You could try a direct approach to the Vicar, you never know he might take an interest if you mention the connection, or at least he may point you in the direction of the burial records. There were family burials there until 1954. The Parks dept. were in control from 1927.
Regards
Colin Clarke
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Thank you Colin, you have been very helpful. Not only have you reminded me that I might be looking for a Howell, but you have introduced me to Birmingham History Forum (which I knew nothing of).
Many thanks & good luck with your searches,
Kay
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Hi Colin & Oliver,
Just to let you know that I have received a personal message telling me that Pickards Pink Pages were online- on there I was able to see an index of the memorial inscriptions that does include Alsop & Howell. From that information I was able to order the relevant fiche from BMSGH for just £1 plus p& p - what a bargain! So now I just have to wait for the postman!
Thank you all, would never have found it without your help.
Kay
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I suspect my help was more limited but great to see you've made progress!
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Don't undersell yourself Oliver, if you hadn't sent your reply, my query would still be well down the list, not seen by the others & I would still be floundering around in the dark!! You lit the match - cheers!
Kay
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Well 1 out of 3 is a start!! Most odd really. Bearing in mind that the daughter (Sarah Jessy) died 1st, then Anne Maria the mother (3 years later),finally John the son, I cannot fathom why there is a memorial erected to the mother only. It makes no sense that these 3 lived together all their lives & yet the surviving son had a memorial made to his mother only?
Anne Maria married Josiah Allsop MD Birmingham & had 3 children with him. He died 1832.
Anne Maria remarried George Howell 1836 & had a daughter Mary Ann 1838
1841 Anne Maria is calling herself Alsop, but daughter Mary Ann is Howell & George is absent.
1851 Anne maria still Alsop, Mary Ann & George not to be seen again, assume they died?
So, surprised to find Anne Maria buried as 'Annie Marie wife of Josiah Howell MD Birmingham'! I suppose John would have been a man of few words (a trait handed down to the present day!), but you'd have thought when he & his brother saw the mistake they would have got it changed! Surely if she wanted to be known as Alsop for her last 47 years, she would have wanted Alsop on the stone - & why no mention of the sister? Most odd.
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Hi Kay,
I must say the outcome of this is most strange.
I suppose one possibility is that John had got a little confused in the intervening 50 years or so since the death of his father & stepfather.
Colin
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Hi Colin,
Of course you are right - I'm getting a little confused myself!! And I've realised that maybe Sarah Jessy was on the memorial, but lower down or even on the other side - then if the stone had weathered badly, it wouldn't have been noticed. Seems reasonable to me.
I have been intouch with the vicar & he doesn't have the burial register or a copy. However, it has occurred to me that a descendant of the Ledsams may know something. It's a long shot, but I have e-mailed him with my fingers crossed. Don't want to leave a stone unturned!!!
I noticed you have Lowe as a surname interest - they wouldn't be from Derbyshire would they?
Kay
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Hi Kay,
Good luck with your request.
My Lowe connection is quite away back in the 1700s. Hampton in Arden/Barston, Warwickshire,
Regards
Colin