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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: sandymae on Monday 28 November 11 21:09 GMT (UK)

Title: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Monday 28 November 11 21:09 GMT (UK)
I'm looking for Edward Johnson, who we think came from Sheringham, born in 1839, worked on the North sea trawler The Fly. The “Fly” was purchased by Thomas Roderique who sailed to New Zealand with his family and Charles Brett as Captain and Ned Johnson as crew, at this time he was 18 years of age.

Ned went on to build many boats at Stewart Island, New Zealand and was a very good fisherman,so may have come from a boat building family?
We still have in the family one of his boats, built in 1888.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards, Sandymae
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: karenlee on Monday 28 November 11 21:20 GMT (UK)

Hi sandymae

Welcome to Rootschat.

There is this boy in Sheringham of the right age..

1841 Census England Norfolk Sheringham
HO107/760/30/23
Sheringham

JOHNSON
Ann 45 Pauper Born in this County
Robert 10 Born in this County
James 8 Born in this County
Hannah 7 Born in this County
Edward 1 Born in this County

Cheers
Karenlee
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: flipflops on Monday 28 November 11 21:39 GMT (UK)
In the census 1851 there's a Thomas JOHNSON,bn 1796 Sheringham with wife Ann bn  1795 Dorking Norfolk and sons  Robert bn  1831 Beeston Regis, James bn 1833 Beeston Regis Edward bn 1840 Sheringham occ work on twine ground and daughter Hannah bn 1834 al in Sheringham which seems to be the same family. No idea what a twine ground is. ???
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Monday 28 November 11 21:52 GMT (UK)
Karenlee,
I think the Edward you have passed away at 18, in 1858, so can't be him. Flipflops, is that the same family as Karenlee's?
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: Cathy_Aus on Monday 28 November 11 22:09 GMT (UK)
Hi sandy:)
If u check sheringham Registers on Family search.org for Norfolk theres a EDMUND JOHNSON born 1840 there with Parents THOMAS and ANN(Nee THURSBY)
Page 8 No 59 entry
well worth Looking at
maybe the Edward was Supposed to be Edmund
Regards
cathy:)
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: goldy on Monday 28 November 11 22:15 GMT (UK)
Is this anything to do with the ship you mentioned

The Shipping Gazette and Sydney general trade list; 1844


Volume 1, Number 2 - 30 March, 1844
THE SURVEYING EXPEDITION – HM Schooner Bramble is expected to sail to-morrow for Port Stephens to join the Fly when the surveying expedition, after calling at Moreton Bay, Port Bowen and Cape Upstart, will proceed to Raine’s Islet, when a beacon (from plans by James Aird, Esq., C.E.) to serve as a land-mark to the newly surveyed passage through Torres Straits will be erected.
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/aunews1844.htm

Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Monday 28 November 11 22:43 GMT (UK)
Goldy,
I'v been looking at that, not sure it's the same boat. Think that one come down this way, but went back to Aussie.
Neds one is an 18 ton cutter,  North sea trawler that was purchased and Ned crewed on it when he was 18, so would make that around 1858. In Australia it was engaged in freighting oysters from Western Port in Victoria South to Melbourne.

Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: goldy on Tuesday 29 November 11 12:44 GMT (UK)
this one ?
FLY
A North Sea trawler, she was brought to Stewart Island by Tom Roderique, Ned Johnson and Charles Brett. She
carried oysters and timber to Port Chalmers and Riverton from Stewart Island. In a report from W.H. Pearson,
Commissioner of Crown Lands to the Provincial Secretary, 18th May 1885, he quotes an 18 ton cutter “FLY” filling
her hold in 4 tides at Port Adventure by shoveling direct at low tide and sailing direct to Dunedin. She went ashore at
Fly Point, Halfmoon Bay at one stage but was refloated and repaired.
http://www.stewart-island-news.com/BOATNOTES.html
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Tuesday 29 November 11 17:03 GMT (UK)
 Yes, that is the correct Fly. If we could work out just where it left England, we might be able to find out something about Ned.
This is one of his boats here, which we own, so if anyone recognises the shape, could give us a clue. He built all them along the same  lines.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Restoration-The-Secret-Stewart-Island/128787753842959#!/pages/Restoration-The-Secret-Stewart-Island/128787753842959
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Wednesday 30 November 11 00:14 GMT (UK)
Have found an Edward arriving Port Philip Bay, Australia on the Blanche Moore 25th Jul 1857, matching his age, 18, also may have been travelling with his father, 48. Departed from London.

Port Philip is the Bay where Geelong is, where he left on the "Fly", and he was 18 then, so the chances are that it's Ned. I have port B, Fiche 128, page 003, but not sure where to go now?
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 30 November 11 16:40 GMT (UK)
I may be asking the obvious here, but do you have Edwards Marriage and Death Certs?
What are the names of his Parents from them?

1851 Census
Mile End Old Ford, Middlesex
HO107/1553/473/20
Isabella JOHNSON, 44, Head, Mar, Born Scotland
William, 14, Son, Painter, born Old Ford
EDWARD, 13, Son,born Shalford, Essex
George, 11, Son, Born Shalford
Eliza, 9, Daug, born Shalford
James, 7, Son, born  Stepney, Middlesex
Thomas, 5, Son, born Stepney
Mary Ann, 3, born Stepney
Thomas LOPE?, 73, Lodger, Imp.. in Customs, born Stepney

1841 in Essex we have;
Edward Johnson, 30, Painter, Journeyman
Isabella, 25
William, 5
EDWARD, 3
George, 1
HO107/323/12/West Ham

Fits with Blanche Moore info.
EDWARD Johnson 1809
EDWARD 1839


Trish :)
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Wednesday 30 November 11 18:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Trish, Yes, you are so right, seems the whole family was on the Blanche Moore. Checked the Sheringham link with old family and they decided a photo in a paper of Johnson's in Sheringham shared a resemblance, so decided thats where we came from!
I do have death cert and marriage, but unfortunatly only has born, unknown on them. Now that we have found them, will try and find birth certs.
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 01 December 11 11:19 GMT (UK)
MARRIAGE;
22 December 1833, Stepney St Dunstan and All Saints, Tower Hamlets
Edward Richard JOHNSON, Widower, of this Parish
Isabella Roger CUNNINGHAM, Spinster, of this Parish
Witnesses,? Cunningham amd Eli.. ...
(Witnesses are hard to read)

There will be no Birth Certs for Edward/Isabella and their Children born pre 1837.
Hopefully Christenings will be found though.
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 01 December 11 11:38 GMT (UK)
Must be her ??? ;D

Isabella Rodger CUNNINGHAM, Christened 17 August 1806,
Moonzie, Fife, Scotland
Parents;
George CUNNINGHAM
Mary MILLAR
(Source Scotland, Birth/Baptisms on Familysearch.Org)

Ohh, as I was typing that above I found it on FreeREG also. Extra info has Fathers Occp as Schoolmaster.
Siblings are;
ROBERT 1801
JANET WIGHTON 1803
MARGARET FORRESTER 1804
JAMES 1808
CATHARINE REID 1810
ELIZA SUSANNAH DEAS 1814
All Cunninghams, Parents as above, Father Schoolmaster

Margaret F Cunningham and Janet Cunningham probably were Buried 1831/1832 in Moonzie, Unm. Ages match DOB

All Records above on www.freereg.org.uk

George CUNNINGHAME (with an E) and Mary MILLAR Married 18 April 1801, Creich, Fife, Scotland
(Mary may have been from their as Brides usually Married in their own Parish)
(Source IGI Extracted Record)

Trish :)
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: trish1120 on Thursday 01 December 11 11:51 GMT (UK)
1841 Census
School House,
Moonzie, Fife, Scotland
George CUNNINGHAM, 60, Schoolmaster
Margaret Cunningham, 45
Georgina Cunningham, 7
Euphemia BROWN, 13
All born Fife

Marriage of George CUNNINGHAM of Moonzie and Margaret Dempster CHRISTIE of Culpar is on FreeREG, 28 Feb 1832.
So Mary must ahve Died and he remarried and had Georgina with new Wife.
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Thursday 01 December 11 19:01 GMT (UK)
 :-* Well done Trish!
Thanks so much. I'm new to all this, and just did'nt know where to start! Now need to try and track down the family in Australia.
Thank you so much! :)
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Friday 02 December 11 03:39 GMT (UK)
 :'( Well, it;s back to the start for me, turns out that Edward died in Australia in 1900, so not our Edward!
Have no idea now where to go, all the paperwork I have has no birth  and parents are listed unknown.

May need to check passenger lists for arrival in Australia, has anyone any website you can check these?
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 02 December 11 05:29 GMT (UK)
Hi agin,
Dont give up on this as being your Edward yet. The Tree that has him dying 1900 could be wrong. If they are not directly related and have the Cert it may be another Edward.
I am out later but will look over this all again tonight.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Friday 02 December 11 05:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Trish,
The record is Paramatta, NSW 1900, Reg 10073. Has his parents names on as well.
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 02 December 11 08:21 GMT (UK)
Yes, I just found that also :P
Back to the drawing board as you say.
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Friday 02 December 11 08:38 GMT (UK)
 :( Think the only way we can find him, is if I can find him coming into NZ. Problem is I know he arrived on a small fishing boat from Australia, so not sure if records where kept.
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: trish1120 on Friday 02 December 11 08:42 GMT (UK)
Me neither.
Have you posted on the Australian Board for him?
If not, cut and paste a link to this thread and hopefully someone with access to records I dont have can help.
Their are some amazing researchers on there.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: annie bear on Sunday 11 December 11 10:06 GMT (UK)
:( Think the only way we can find him, is if I can find him coming into NZ. Problem is I know he arrived on a small fishing boat from Australia, so not sure if records where kept.
Hi
While doing research on Isabella Cunningham and Edward Johnson, I noticed your entries. Isabella and her family did settle in Victoria and she had a married sister, Eliza Susanna Deas Cunningham married to William SYmington who came to Australia c1855. Their family settled at Bacchus Marsh.

I cannot find a definite death for Edward Johnson but Isabella Johnson d 23 Jul 1879 at Hotham. Her will can be downloaded for free at PROVIC wills indexes. Death is in 'Illustrated Australian News,' 30 Aug 1879 [http://trove.nla.gov.au] This is a fantastic Australian newspaper site, free to use.
In her will, it states that she was a widow.She lists her children and Edward is named.  I do have more information on this family but I don't know is this is the one that you are researching.
Regards
Annette
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Sunday 11 December 11 19:18 GMT (UK)
Hi  Annette,  unfortunalty the will would have been written before Edward would have passsed. I have the record for Edwards death as  Paramatta, NSW 1900, Reg 10073, it has his parents names listed, so can't be our Edward.
Am now trying to get any information on the Aussie board for our Edward in Geelong before his departure to NZ on the Fly with Thomas Roderique.
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: PL0400 on Friday 27 January 12 13:12 GMT (UK)
Dear Sandy Mae, Would you have any further information on the first Johnson family? I am interested in more info on Thomas Johnson (m. Ann Sarsby) family. I'm sure this is the family where son Robert married Elizabeth Woodhouse. BTW I believe it should read "works on swine ground"
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: joymary on Thursday 28 June 12 03:14 BST (UK)
Hi Sandymae, I am a direct descendant of Ned Johnson who sailed to Stewart Island NZ on the Fly. He built 6 or 7 ships on Stewart Island. The first being the X10U8, Mystery, Secret, Puzzle, Little Nell, Cornish Lass. What you have ties in with our Ned, there was a lot of mystery surrounding the journey to NZ under XIOU8ing circumstances. His son William was my great-grandfather, his son William Edward was my great grandfather(two ton) and my father, still living is William Edward Myth (Sonny Johnson) all sea-faring men.  Today, the Secret, one of Ned's boats sank at Stewart Island, this boat remains in the family. Please note my Dad is the last of his generation still alive. We live in Bluff NZ
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Thursday 28 June 12 04:27 BST (UK)
Hi,
Was so pleased to get your email, I'm at the Island, and Trev is just down trying to sort the Secret, gosh thats fast news, he is devasted about it. Shes fullen apart and is up n the beach in several pieces.
We've been trying to find out as much as we could about Ned, but can only go as far as Geelong, when they left in the Fly.
I was hoping Sonny would know something, think Dianne Johnson was going to talk to him. Kens wife.
A piece of history has gone today, which is like a death in the family.
I'll let Trev know you have emailed,
Regards,
Sandra Whipp
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: joymary on Thursday 28 June 12 05:27 BST (UK)
Dad is upset too about the Secret, he is very weepy, like a death in the family.
Dad said to tell Trevor he is very sorry to hear about the incident today, Mr Bulman was our source of info, Southland Times have rung for some background on Neds boats. Dad said Ned died before he was born and does not know any history before Australia. I have been sent some history from Peter Templeton Riverton Museum in relation to Tom Roderique and the Roderique pardon.
Peter has more  on Ned in the archives, I must call him to see where he is with that. Have you spoken to Elaine Hamilton re Ned, Gordons daughter is researching the family tree currently.
Thinking of you all today, Joy Officer
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: Dean Johnson on Monday 28 November 16 00:15 GMT (UK)
I'm looking for Edward Johnson, who we think came from Sheringham, born in 1839, worked on the North sea trawler The Fly. The “Fly” was purchased by Thomas Roderique who sailed to New Zealand with his family and Charles Brett as Captain and Ned Johnson as crew, at this time he was 18 years of age.

Ned went on to build many boats at Stewart Island, New Zealand and was a very good fisherman,so may have come from a boat building family?
We still have in the family one of his boats, built in 1888.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards, Sandymae

This is one of my ancestors, can I ask why you are looking for him? Maybe we can help each other out
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: JanPennington on Monday 28 November 16 00:46 GMT (UK)
Hi

I had a look at the picture of your boat online and I think it maybe a Zulu - they had black sails.

Zulus took the best features of the earlier scaffies and fifies in the North East of Scotland.  They were used fro herring fishing.  The season started in the Orkneys (if I remember correctly) and followed the shoals to Norfolk.
http://www.historyshelf.org/secf/silver/links/linke.php  - this website gives some information about the boats.

Jan
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: sandymae on Monday 28 November 16 03:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks Jan,
They do look very similar to what Ned built.
Title: Re: Johnson, Sheringham Norfolk
Post by: Dean Johnson on Thursday 01 December 16 21:39 GMT (UK)
Dear Sandy Mae, Would you have any further information on the first Johnson family? I am interested in more info on Thomas Johnson (m. Ann Sarsby) family. I'm sure this is the family where son Robert married Elizabeth Woodhouse. BTW I believe it should read "works on swine ground"

Hi i'm a direct descendant of Thomas Johnson, it was his son Robert that married Elizabeth, what connection do you have to the family maybe we could help each other out