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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Truebrit on Saturday 26 November 11 20:28 GMT (UK)
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I am researching an Ancestor, William Webb, born in Gilmorton, Leicestershire in 1817, who was sent to Tasmania for stealing sheep in 1841. He arrived in Tasmania in early 1843 aboard the Duchess of Northumberland where he spent the next 6 years in the colony. I have found his conduct record (no 8877) although some of it is very hard to read.
He appears to have been pardoned in late 1849, before heading from Launceston to Melbourne on the @Shamrock' steamer on 17th April 1850.
I am not sure what happened to him then. I am hoping that he went back to England as his wife Elizabeth, who he married in 1839, lists William as a father of a child, William Webb (Jnr) on a birth record (Oct 1852) and christening record (Oct 1853) in Lutterworth, Leicestershire. However, i cannot find him on any census' in England, except the 1841 census, which is before he was sent to Tasmania. After that his wife is listed as living on Parish Relief in Lutterworth in the 1851 census (stating she is a widow) and again she is alone in 1861 where she states she is married, before listing herself as a widow again in 1871!
Can anyone help me trace William Webb from his ship voyage on the Shamrock on the 17th April 1850 bound for Melbourne? Or can anyone help with further info on his trial and time in Tasmania?
Thanks in advance.
TB
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Hi Truebrit, Return to England? That would be very unusual. Pardon or ticket of leave meant some freedom to move around the Colony. Not leave it.
Transportation normally meant for the term of life. I would think that he would need the means to buy a ticket which didn't come cheap. Also he would need friends in High places to be able to board a ship. I believe that his wife after seven years could legally marry again and this could be the true father.
A search for a William Webb here may turn up something. What was William's sentence term?
Neil
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Hi Neil
Thanks for your reply.
He was sentenced in the Leicestershire courts to 10 years for steeling sheep by way of Transportation. The criminal records register is dated 30/07/1841. I have found a record of him being transported to Tasmania on 'The Duchess of Northumberland' ship on 16/09/1842, arriving 18/01/1843. He then appears to have been pardoned in 1849 and then heads to Melbourne on the 'Shamrock' steamer on 17/04/1850.
That is all that i know....
Any other details or info would be greatly appreciated.
TB
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Hi, I came across a mention in 1871 of A "William Webb" at Ballarat Victoria who had some items stolen and was offering a reward. Of course this could be any William Webb. Perhaps he settled there and remmarried but as I dont have full access to Victorian records it will be difficult to find him (for Me).
As he could move reasonably freely around the colonies he could turn up anywhere but I am sure that others may be able to find some record. As a pardoned prisoner he was able to buy land or take up ballots this also could be anywhere and there were lots of pardoned prisoners.
Do you know his parents names our records do have these when they are made available by informants either on marriage or death certs.
Neil
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Yes.
His parents names were John Webb and Ann Hopkins.
Any details, confirmations, clarifications or generally any info greatly received on this one.
Regards
TB
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You have all this information I would think but I'll put it up as it may help others.
William WEBB, aged 24, was convicted (with Thomas BYWATER) for sheep stealing at Leicester Assizes 30 July 1841, sentence: transportation 10 years. Voyage per Duchess of Northumberland, 1 October, 1842 to Van Dieman's Land. He received a conditional pardon after 5 years 10 months in the colony and 10 months after his ticket of leave.
According to the UK, Prison Hulk Registers and Letter Books, he was an ag lab, could not read or write. There are some comments about his character which are too hard to read, although it seems to say Imp'd before, bad something and good dispn (possibly imprisoned before, bad something, good disposition) He was on the Justitia at Woolwich from 30 Aug 1841.
Pity he didn't have a middle name as there are so many William WEBBs. While he only had a conditional pardon when he left Tasmania he would have been free to leave Australia after he had served his full sentence.
Judith
Tasmanian Convict records also give this info on his indent:
Native place: Gilmorton (Gilmarton?), Leics,
Ploughman and labourer
Height 5ft 9 3/4in, married, 2 children, protestant religion, convicted for stealing 2 sheep, 3mos for poaching, 2 mos for assault (also some unreadable comments in this column). The next column I think has his wife as Elizabeth and his two children as Elizabeth, and Ann Elizabeth but this may not be correct. I am not very familiar with Tas records.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=74356
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Wife Elizabeth, Native Place, Father John
Mother Elizabeth, Brother John, 3 Sisters
Ann, Elizabeth, Phillis (?) Native Place
His mother's name is incorrect.
Debra 8)
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Hi all
Thanks for this info. Can I ask for the sources/links as I am not sure I did have all this info! Not sure I have seen the prison hulk records, where can these be found?
Debra - those details are correct except for the wrong mothers name. John married Ann in 1816 and William was baptised in 1817. Where did you get that info from?
Thanks all. My only disappointment is that it really is looking like he did not make it back to England to father William in 1852.
TB
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Well read Debra!
The link I gave you is the Tasmanian convict records on-line and you can see the digitised records there.
Judith
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Hi Truebrit,
William's indent
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON14-1-19,162,140,L,80
It goes across two pages
Debra :)
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Thanks for that.
I can now see his conduct record and indenture - can't find the entries in either of the description lists though!
All very useful stuff and i am now pleased that there is a reason he wasn't with his wife in the uk census'. It would be nice to see what happened to William though.
Whilst it looks highly likely that he did not go back i find it surprising that Elizabeth is prepared to list herself as a single woman on her son Joseph's baptism in 1844 (illegitimate as William is in Tasmania) although happily lists William Webb as the father on the birth certificate and christening entry for her next child, also William Webb in 1852.......
All very puzzling. And what a difficult life Elizabeth appears to have had as she never re-married.
TB
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William's description list entries (and some artistic additions - a gumleaf?):
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON18-1-34,230,139,L,80
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON69-1-1,145,82,L,80 (page one is image 76 - this appears to be the original Surgeons report, very nice and quite rare)
Some interesting tattoos - "The anchor was used as a symbol of hope and constancy and was often attached to a loved one's initials." Was Elizabeth E.B.?
Debra :)
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Thanks for those links. Very helpful and kind of you.
His wife was Elizabeth Smith - so not EB, perhaps it was a flowery 'S'.
This is the first time that i have explored a convict's history so it is all very enlightening.
Any other advice for progressing this research greatly received.
Regards
TB
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http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=C&id=74356
Hi Judith
Thanks for posting this, another great site to have bookmarked.
:)jampar55
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Hi Truebrit
Could this be your William Webb!!
Following judb link in reply #5, I viewed applications for marriage
Found the following
William Webb to Caroline Baylis ; recommended on 7 June 1854 and married 3 July 1854.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=5
jampar55
:)
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Hi
Thanks for your response. How can we view the marriage details? Do they show fathers names or other details for example?
Regards
TB
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This link is part of the PORTAL link given by Judith and others above.
It shows the known children of this couple. She was also transported per Duchess of Northumberland
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=47192.
Sue
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Unfortunately, tasmanian marriage certificates from this period detail very little
Jenn
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Mmmm - interesting.
Are there any other documents for a life in Tasmania - census? burial record showing age? etc
I need to explore this further.
I also need to explore the William Webb entries under these search options on Anc*stry. If anyone has a worldwide membership can they please help me as mine is only a uk membership and won't let me look at these!
australian convict transportation registers other fleets & ships 1791-1868
nsw & tasmania , australia convict musters 1806-149
nsw & tasmania , australia convict pardons & tickets of leave 1834-1859
TB
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I have already posted all the information from the commercial site that you asked to be looked up - that's where I got the information from. :D
I have some concerns as to whether the William Webb who was given permission to marry Caroline BAYLISS is the one you are seeking. Your William Webb had already given the information that he was married when he was transported; often this is mentioned in 'permission to marry' records. He is also listed as 'free' in the column giving the ship of arrival. He had a conditional pardon but was not necessarily 'free'. However these are only thoughts and it well may be the correct person.
Caroline BAYLISS was convicted of 'larceny from the person' at Warwickshire Quarter Sessions (Birmingham boro') 17 March, 1852. Sentenced to 14 years. (Source: All England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892)
Her voyage date was 25 Nov 1852, on the Duchess of Northumberland but obviously not the same voyage as William WEBB. Her conditional pardon (Tasmania) is recorded on 3 June 1857. Sources: New South Wales and Tasmania, Australia, Convict Pardons and Tickets of Leave, 1834-1859, Australian Convict Transportation Registers – Other Fleets & Ships, 1791-1868.
Judith
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Thanks Judith
I will have to try and get a copy of those Anc*stry documents to support my research.
You certainly seem to know alot more than i do about these situations and when considering what you have said and the fact that i have found a William Webb heading from Launceston to Melbourne on the 'Shamrock' steamer on 17th April 1850, whose ship to the colony was the Duchess of Northumberland it makes me think that he may have been heading to Australia!
Not sure where to look now though!
TB
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It seems to me that the passenger to Melbourne is a more likely candidate for your man than the marrying one. Would have been good if he had a second name LOL :D
You may find a municipal library that has a world-wide sub for A*****, that you can use for free. Ours does which is great if I need it. I just have the Aus and the lowest level UK so there are times when having access to the wider version is useful.
Judith
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There is a marriage notice for the WEBB/BAYLISS marriage in 1854 in Tasmania. It seems that Caroline was already trying to cover her tracks. From the information given in her convict indent I think it more likely that she was the daughter of Thomas BAYLISS and Rosannah KENDRICK of Birmingham, not John BAYLISS Esq. of London. She had a daughter Rosannah on board with her when she was transported.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0i7a/
Even though there was nothing to stop him from returning to Tas and marrying, I also think that he would be more likely found in Victoria. There are a number of deaths which could be him, but with no parents named on the indexes, so even if you purchased the certs they may not give you enough info to identify him.
Debra :D