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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: James M on Friday 25 November 11 22:57 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I have cornish roots but there is a connection to scotland too.
A scottish lass Miriam/May/Mary Smith married by my surname forebears on 24th April 1809 in Toolbooth parish church - he (Nicholas Morris sp in extract) was a drummer in the Royal Marines and she was dau of James Smith trunk maker in Edinburgh Midlotian.
In the descendent Morrish lines (including myself!!) - the middle name of Anderson and Kerr were used...plus I have some family oral history on the forebears to Miriam Smith that align with the use of these middle names.
I have a banns of James Smith - merchant in New Grayford to Katherine Ker (note one r) daughter of deceased Willian Ker (died before 1771) - banns was in Edinburg Midlotian in 1771.
On James Smith side - I beleive that the parents were John Smith + Agnes Anderson (names used in Miriams + Nicholas children)
Searching Cornish ancestors has been OK but I am not sure where to start with the Scottish ones, do I hire a researcher etc?
Nicholas and Miriam had their first two children in Edinburgh - Elizabeth 1810 and James 1813 before the family moved back to Cornwall after Nicholas retired after 24 years in the Royal Marines. I do not have any birth record yet..other than UK census + family data.
Also.....are there photographs of the Toobooth parish church 1809....the Toolbooth Church on the Royal Mile was built 1850's...so it can not be the same one.
Many thanks
James M
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Hi James
Have you looked at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk as yet? It will cost but searching is excellent and the records are very extensive.
Cheers ... Simon
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Thanks Simon - Going there now....Also...just tried looking for New Grayford parish - was hard to read the banns writing - does not seem to be found - looks like Grayfurd or Crayfurd...still can not find it on a web based parish listing
Thanks...James M
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If you have Ker ancestors they may well be of Irish origin, Kerr is the Scots spelling. My 4xGt Grandfather Michael Ker was Irish born and married in Wigtownshire. Some records for his children keep the Ker spelling, some are recorded as Kerr. If they strayed into England it's quite likely that the spelling Kerr would be used.
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Hi
My Dad said that there were Kers and Kerrs in Scotland and that the families did not get on together...he thinks that we have Ker and Kerr on each side of Miriam Smith ancesters.....they were not related. This is all hearsay hand me downs
One of Nich and Miriams son was called Thomas Kerr Morrish and the sp/pronouciation changed ..my middle name is Carr. One wonders how the ancents went back in Cornwall in the family esp at Census time.!! The banns is def. Ker
Thanks James M
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Hi James
Kerr, Ker, Carr, were all much of a muchness. Best known for their left-handedness, so much so that their castle was built with its spiral staircases going the opposite way to the norm, to give left-handed defenders an advantage against attachers climbing the stairs.
New Grayford is probably New Grayfriars.
Hibee
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good luck with your scottish search.
here are a few tips than I can suggest:
of course scotlandspeople but as Simon says that costs so you can check familysearch first to narrow down your searches
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp
for just midlothian searches
http://www.genealogylinks.net/uk/scotland/midlothian/index.html
http://www.genealogy-of-uk.com/Scotland/Midlothian/genealogy.htm
http://www.scottishpenpals.com/midlothian-genealogy.php
if you happen to have a sub to ancestry look here
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/Places/UK/Scotland/Midlothian/Default.aspx?AID=10402952&PID=1363683
there are lots more but that should get you going!
regards
Elinga
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Hi All,
Thanks vm.....I have started looking and even bought 2 wills but not right person.
I do not think that I am going to get too far with common names such as Smith, Ker/r and Anderson.
The Scottish child naming convention is very similar to the Cornish one...the first two kids were Elizabeth and James. The use of middles names started with third child - Anderson was used twice as was Smith and Kerr last child (of 10).
Miriam Smith was born 1787 from census data/death - she would have to been an Edinburgh local to meet a Naval person. At time of marriage - her father was James Smith a trunkmaker. I can find a marriage of James Smith merchant at New Grayfriars (close to Tollbooth) to Katherine Kerr in 1771 - I can not find any kids from then to Miriam birth in 1787...etc.
Anyway..I will keep trying...Thanks...James M
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Hi All,
I have found a bit on the ancestor page...but I can not find the first 2 kids from Nicholas Morrish and Miriam/May Smith - before they moved back to Cornwall....incl Catholic section.....looked at all variants and was blowing money looking at them all.
I have James Anderson+ Christian Henderson (name used in M family) had a daug Agnes b1703 who married John Dunmoir in 1717> 2 kids b 1726/1728 and then married John Smith in 1737 with one son James in 1738. James Smith married Katherine Ker in 1771 (he would mid 30's) and can not find any children altho I know that dau Miriam was 11 dec 1787 who married Nicholas Morris in Apr 1809 (found this one)....and then can not find any for the 2 kids born in Scotland.
On the Ker side.....Katherine father was William who died before 1771...some possibilities here but all guesses. It seems that Nich and Miriam's kids middle names mainly came from the Smith/Anderson line and only one from Ker side...
Any comments or suggestions welcome.......Thanks...James M
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Going back to your first post about the Tolbooth Church.
Before the current (now disused) church was built, the Tolbooth Church seems to have been the western most church contained within St Giles. This building was divided into three churches to serve three separate parts of the Old Town. The part dedicated to serve as the Tolbooth Church was nearest to the Tolbooth itself. The Tolbooth was known as the Heart of Midlothian (no, not the footie club ;) ) and was demolished in 1817. St Giles is of course still there and now undivided.
There is a 19th century book on the Tolbooth Church:
http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924029475898
Engraving of the Tolbooth outside St Giles:
http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_eng_one/0_engraving_-_one_1_133_old_tolbooth.htm
Moving on to your later posts- I'm a tad concerned that Agnes apparently married in 1717, aged 14. While it was legal, it is not common.
You say that Miriam/Mary/May must have been Edinburgh local to meet a naval person. I think I'd be a little cautious. I don't think of Edinburgh as particularly associated with the Royal Navy or the Marines. I know Smith is a pain of a name to search for (similar to John Brown in many ways ::) ), but not impossible. It does mean that caution is really important. Work backwards to link the generations, otherwise it can lead to difficulties.
Nell
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Hi Nell
Thanks for the comments...Given what I have found over the weekend, I think I know why I have not gone too far with this before.......
Miriam/May/May did marry Nicholas M in Apr 1809 - drummer in Royal Marines (as per Edinburgh parish record and census and discharge sheet) - he served for 24 years and was in 3 Napoleon naval battles inc Camperdown and Copenhagen.
The name James / Smith / Anderson/ Christian and Ker/r were used in the offspring and looking at Nicholas side - Nicholas/John and Mary were the very common names going back further in time.
I do not think that the Agnes Anderson married and daugh are valid for my family. It is all going to be supposition.
I do not know why the two first children - Elizabeth and James were not baptised in Scotland nor Cornwall.. The third child - Christian Anderson M was baptised at the parish of Nicholas's parents - as per tradition and not his parish St Enoder.
Thanks...James M
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Hi Nell
Thanks for the links to the old Tollbooth church..much appreciated and the book as wel..most interesting.
Thanks...James M