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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: fraser1 on Thursday 24 November 11 12:59 GMT (UK)
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Help please as I am tying myself in knots.
James Grant born 3/11/1775 - father Malcolm Grant mother Janet Mcpherson
Married Lillias Stuart/Stewart 12/4/1793
Is this the right one as there is another record for a James Grant marrying a Lillias Grant but I don't think the dates match up.
I cannot find a birth certificate for Lillias but have two dcs both1868 .
Which Lillias was it?
Regards
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
I've found the marriage but not really much to go on - Abernethy and Kincardine on the date you state.
Are the 1868 documents death certs? If so what information do they give on her husband?
Do you have them on the 1841-1861 censuses?
gnu
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Is this them on the 1851:
Mid Drum, Abernethy and Kincardine
90a 6 8
James Grant, 76, farmer of 8 acres, employing 1 labourer, b. Abernethy
Lillie, 65, b. Abernethy
So birth circa 1786
gnu
Added - 1861 suggests the same D of B. A son, Alexander, aged 35, is with them.
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These are the deaths:
9 March 1868, Abernethy and Kincardine
Lilias Grant, widow of James Grant, farmer of Mid Drum. Died Upper Plotts, Aged 82.
parents- John Grant, farmer and Catherine m.s. Grant. Both deceased
Alexander Grant, son, was the informant
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4th March 1868, Abernethy and Kincardine
Lilias Grant, widow of James Grant, farmer of Auch Tulloch, Aged 88
Parents - Peter Stuart, farmer and Janet m.s. Robertson. Both deceased.
John Grant, son, was the informant.
Do you have any information on their children which would distinguish the two couples.
gnu
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For comparison, this is the Lillias Stuart on the 1861:
Upper Plotts, Abernethy
124 5 7
John Grant, 55, Farmer of 4 1/2 acres arable and 13 1/2 pasture
Lillie, mother, 82
Simon Smith, nephew, 26, lotter
Elspet Grant, 18, servant
All b. Abernethy
Added -
and in 1851
Plotts, Abernethy
90a 5 6
John Grant, 45, farmer of 4 1/2 acres with 10 acres pasturage
Lilias Stewart, mother 74
Simon Smith, servant, 17, farm servant
Jannet Gordon, servant, 14, farm servant
All b. Abernethy
gnu
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Could this be the marriage of Lillias Grant -
Abernethy and Kincardine
18 May 1793 Gregor Grant of Rothiemurchus and Lilias Grant of Backhorn (?)
This entry immediately below the Lilias Stuart and James Grant one.
I wonder whether Gregor's other name was James or clerk/minister got confused as there is a James Grant to a Jannet Grant as the next entry as well.
gnu
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From James's death cert of 1863, aged 87, his wife was the Lilias Grant not Lilias Stewart/Stuart. Lilias Grant would have only been 7 in 1793!
gnu
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Looking at your other thread re Alexander ~
Your Alexander was the son of James and Lilias Stuart. This James died before 1841 so he cannot be the James, son of Malcolm Grant and Janet McPherson as this one died 1863 and married Lilias Grant, as previous post.
gnu
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Children baptised in Abernethy to James Grant and Lilias Stuart/Stewart:
12 April 1794 Margaret
16 Sept 1795 May
21 July 1797 Mary
5 June 1799 John
22 Mar 1800 Alexander
24 Aug 1803 Alexander
17 July 1801 Jean
13 May 1807 James
22 June 1808 Mary
gnu
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Hi
Thank you very much for all your research. As I thought, dates do not tie up but it looks as though it is back to the drawing board to check forward and make sure that I have been following the right trail. Time permitting I will do tonight.
Regards
Sandra
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Hi Again
It's a bit of a puzzle with so many Grants - a bit like Jones in Wales in that area :-\
It looks as if Lilias Stuart was born 1777-1780 from info on the censuses.
Just to give a little more information re locations.
The Rynrick, I think is located CLICK HERE FOR MAP (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=300290&y=814832&z=115&sv=300290,814832&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=569&ax=300290&ay=814832&lm=0) as Rynerrick, not far at all from Tulloch, where Lilias Stuart was living on the censuses and where she died.
If you use the zoom control on the right of the map, you'll see Tulloch just to the North West of the Rynerricks
It might be worth asking for an MI look up for your family. That might clarify things.
gnu
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Me again
As you will have gathered I am not very good at this so I do appreciate all your help. What is an MI?
My mind is going round in circles and I don't know where I am going wrong. I have checked back my findings and can't get the names and dates to tie up.
I think maybe I will take a break and come back with a fresh eye.
What I am sure is correct is that my great grandfather Alexander Grant Born 5/6/1840, married Annabella Donald 12/12/1879, died 7/7/1926.
From there I traced on his mc his parents Alexander Grant and Barbara Smith.
From Alexander's dc 17/2/1894 his parents James Grant and Lily Stuart both deceased. I have a bc 13/2/1800 with parents James and Lillias.
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Hi
MI is Monumental Inscription.
All I can tell you is that the James Grant, father of your Alexander and married at some date to Lilias Stuart, was not the son of Malcolm Grant and Janet McPherson in 1775.
Unfortunately, he died before the 1841 census so we have no guidance as to his age and no death records. This was why I suggested looking for an MI.
Also note these bapisms (from SP) that I gave earlier:
Children baptised in Abernethy to James Grant and Lilias Stuart/Stewart:
12 April 1794 Margaret
16 Sept 1795 May
21 July 1797 Mary
5 June 1799 John
22 Mar 1800 Alexander
24 Aug 1803 Alexander
17 July 1801 Jean
13 May 1807 James
22 June 1808 Mary
The censuses all suggest Alexander's birth was 1800 so it's puzzling!
gnu
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Hello,
I think I can help...
I discovered James and Lillias Grant whilst researching my 2x Great Grandfather, John Grant (1818-1886). John's birth record says he was born at Mid Drum, Abernethy, the son of James and Lillias Grant. His death record shows his father as James Grant and his mother as Lillias Grant, maiden surname Grant (not Stuart).
On her 1868 death record, Lillias Grant is recorded as the widow of James Grant, farmer at Mid Drum and her parents are given as John Grant and Catherine Grant (Catherine's maiden name was also Grant).
James Grant was born on November 3, 1775 in Clachaig, Abernethy, Scotland. He died at Mid Drum, Abernethy on March 18 1863. On his death record his parents are named as Malcolm Grant and Janet MacPherson.
Great, Great Grandfather, John Grant was, I believe the eldest of six children so I am guessing James and Lillias married sometime around 1816/1817 although, that would put James in his 40's and Lillias in her 30's so I could be mistaken. John's siblings are Malcolm, Alexander, Lewis, James and Jannet.
'hope that helps separate the two families.
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Hi Eliza
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Thank you for your information which supports what I found. It took me quite a while to work out this puzzle and I had to trace the two James Grant/Lilias families.
Sandra (fraser1) maintains that her ancestor, James Grant was married to Lilias Stuart and not Lilias Grant
From Alexander's dc 17/2/1894 his parents James Grant and Lily Stuart both deceased
and thus this James was not the son of Malcom and Janet.I looked at the 1863 death cert to check and found that James married to the wrong Lilias! I also checked the censuses and found that Lilias Stuart's husband had died before the 1841 census
Also
These are the deaths:
9 March 1868, Abernethy and Kincardine
Lilias Grant, widow of James Grant, farmer of Mid Drum. Died Upper Plotts, Aged 82.
parents- John Grant, farmer and Catherine m.s. Grant. Both deceased
Alexander Grant, son, was the informant
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4th March 1868, Abernethy and Kincardine
Lilias Grant, widow of James Grant, farmer of Auch Tulloch, Aged 88
Parents - Peter Stuart, farmer and Janet m.s. Robertson. Both deceased.
John Grant, son, was the informant.
gnu
Sadly, neither of us has access to the MIs to trace the ancestors of James Grant of Auch Tulloch - who was the husband of Lilias Stuart.
Regards
gnu
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Sorry I have not been on sooner but sometimes other work must be done!
Thanks for all your info. On looking back through all my sources I seem to have both sets of James/Lilias but had plumped for the wrong pair and when it became obvious that the dates just did not add up I had to seek help and I'm glad I did.
I will have to check the rest because of the wrong thread but that will need to wait until the holidays.
Sandra :)
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Shouldn't be doing this but it has niggled all night. Can I check that what you are saying is that the dc for Alexander Grant has the wrong mother and what if anything should be done about it? Should SP be notified?
Thanks again.
Sandra :)
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Hi Sandra
I don't think that Alexander Grant's dc had the wrong mother - all I've said is that there weere two families and your Alexander appears from the evidence to be the son of James Grant and Lilias Stuart and not the other couple - check my early replies re the two families.
I do maintain that you have selected the wrong parents for James. The one (James Grant of Auch Tulloch) who was married to Lilias Stuart was dead before 1841. The other James (parents Malcolm Grant and Janet McPherson) died 1863 and was married to Lilias Grant and was of Mid Drum.
gnu
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Abernethy Cemetery:
1860 Jas Grant,farmer, Tomcrocher 10.1829 wife Lilias Stuart 6.1840 son John esq. Malta erected.
This any help? Can't find a grave for the other couple
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Hi,
I'm french canadian and looking for any information on Malcolm Grant who came to Riviere-du-Loup around 1801-1803. I'm a descendant of his son William Grant born Abernathy 29 oct 1796.
Here is the transcript of OPR:
William, lawful son to Malcolm Grant Smith, Bridge-End + Mary Smith his spouse, born 29th october bapt. 3nd nov. 1796
Wit. John Grant (There) and Alexander Fraser in Rothymoon.
On the same page of OPR:
Ann lawful daughter to Alexander Fraser in Rothymoon and Christian Grant his spouse born 4th bapt. 8th january 1797.
Wit. Malcolm Grant Bridge-End and the Schoolmaster.
I saw on Nethy-bridge website that a Malcolm Fraser was schoolmaster in 1949 but I don't think it is the same one who married Mary Smith. He would have been too old.
Malcolm died probably in Riviere-du-Loup between 1816-1820 as saw on his child marriage records.
Some says that Malcolm was son to Thomas Grant and Janet Fraser...
Thank you
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Hi,
Sorry not to have replied sooner but this is a busy time of year. Lots of jam and preserves to be made and the garden tidied for next spring.
On reading your message I do not see any names that I recognize but when I have more time I will delve into the records to see if I can find anything that might be of interest to you.
Sandra
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Thank you very much for your answer.
I found another record dating from June 1784, Abernathy and Kincardine. It is not well preserved so I can't read all informations on it, but, I can see that (a so)n to Malcolm Grant and ( ) servants to Capt. Grant was born in May and baptized in ( ).
and there is two names: Thos. Grant in Lynagarrie and Thos. Grant (both the same names, for the witnesses probably)
Maybe one of this Thomas is the grandfather.
I would like to add that reading about the well-know here, Malcolm Fraser 1733-1815. I saw somewhere that
he was sometimes sending money via a Rev. John Grant to his sister Jannet Fraser married to Thomas Grant and that Jannet Fraser's son came to Riviere-du-Loup in 1803 with his wife and family (from an article of Mary Fraser). Searching the records of Riviere-du-Loup, where I have been raised, I saw only my ancestor Malcolm Grant's descendants. So, I supposed my ancestor Malcolm Grant was this Malcolm Fraser's nephew.
It is everything I know about my ancestors in Scottland.
Have nice time with your jam, I'm also busy but with tomato sauce.
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Coming back to this after filling in gaps elsewhere. I have spent many fruitless hours trying to find a marriage and births for both without success.
What I have is
They are the parents of Alexander Grant born 13/2/1800 information on his BC
No DC for James but Lilias's showing she died 4/3/1868 thus born around 1780, her parents Peter Stuart and Janet Robertson. There is a marriage in 1793 but lilias would only have been 13 if the information on her DC is correct.
Maybe this is as far back as I can go but perhaps someone might be able to find out.
Sandra
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I wondered about resurrecting the old thread and decided against it as the correct pair had been found. Sorry for making the wrong decision.
Sandra