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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: amypatricia1 on Tuesday 22 November 11 08:12 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
This part of my family tree has been puzzling me for a long time. Now I have decided to get some outside opinions. I'm hoping there is someone out there patient enough to read all of this!! ??? What I've written here may go over a lot of heads - But I need to tell someone, and where better to post than Rootschat? Here goes...
My grandmother hated her parents. Her brothers and sister also hated said parents. My grandmother has Alzheimer's so I cannot discuss this with her, and my great uncles and aunt live overseas, and they don't know much about their family or even their parents because none of them were very close or ever cared to know.
The aforementioned parents' names are:
Bernard Alfred Sullivan (born Rosenberg), and
Harriet Caroline O'Brien.
DISCREPANCIES:
BERNARD:
(On his birth certificate)
Name: Bernard Alfred
Father: Richard Thomas Rosenberg
Mother: Annie Blanche Miles
(On his daughter's birth certificate)
Child's name: Patricia Ann Sullivan
Father: Bernard Alfred Sullivan
Mother: Harriet Caroline O'Brien
(On his marriage certificate)
(Of which there are two, for some reason, everything the same except the witnesses names)
Groom's name: Bernard Arthur Sullivan otherwise Rosenberg (His mother re-married William Sullivan when he was 7, which explains the name change).
Bride's name: Caroline Harriet O'Brien (But then where it says "This marriage was solemnised between us" at the bottom, her name is switched around, to Harriet Caroline O'Brien)
Groom's father: William Rosenberg
Witnesses (on cert #1): C. O'Brien, George O'Brien, William O'Brien
Witnesses (on cert #2): C. O'Brien, George O'Brien, Nellie O'Brien.
Certificate two is in completely different handwriting, with a handwritten date "6.1.1992" down the bottom, so I'm assuming it was hand written in 1992. My grandmother had this certificate in her collection and I've no idea where she would have gotten it. Also on the 2nd marriage certificate, it says at the top "CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF MARRIAGE, PURSUANT TO THE MARRIAGE ACT OF 1949" but the marriage took place in 1931. I don't understand?
P.S. Where the father's name has changed from "Richard Thomas Rosenberg" to "William Rosenberg" is it possible Bernard tried to explain that his biological father was Richard Thomas Rosenberg but his step-father was William Sullivan, and the person writing just transcribed it incorrectly? Where he is Richard Thomas on his son's birth certificate his occupation is Motor Car Driver, and where he is William Rosenberg on his son's marriage certificate, his occupation is Chauffeur - which fit.
HARRIET CAROLINE:
(Birth certificate)
Child's name: Harriet Caroline
Father: Cornelius Bryant
(On this certificate, under "Sex" they have written 'Boy' and crossed it out to write 'Girl'. And they've also written 'Brian' and crossed it out, wherever it said Bryant. Why would she have been born Bryant and gone on to use the name O'Brien?)
This is all making me have a sneaking suspicion that the information I have been provided by my grandmother (before she got Alzheimer's) and my great uncle, has been inaccurate and people aren't really who we think they are. I will probably have to start back at square one!
Or could it be that this side of my family just had a lot of bad luck when it came to people transcribing things? I have been told they were illiterate - Maybe they forgot their parents names, or their own? (Bernard Alfred became Bernard Arthur, Harriet Caroline Bryant became Caroline Harriet O'Brien, etc).
I have attached an image. Why would the marriage be entered twice? I have two certificates, and two results on ancestry.com. Does that make sense to anyone?
Thank you in advance, whoever replies, I LOVE YOU!! :P
Amy.
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HARRIET CAROLINE:
(Birth certificate)[/b]
Child's name: Harriet Caroline
Father: Cornelius Bryant
(On this certificate, under "Sex" they have written 'Boy' and crossed it out to write 'Girl'. And they've also written 'Brian' and crossed it out, wherever it said Bryant. Why would she have been born Bryant and gone on to use the name O'Brien?)
Hi Amy,
Just a thought...
I too have a Birth Cert for a family member where the gender was altered, - 'Boy' crossed out and ammended to 'Girl' and name changed accordingly. It was changed by the Registrar as a 'Clerical Error'. My understanding is that sometimes mistakes are genuinely made at the time of birth...and corrected later!
Your family's records do look a little confusing...hopefully someone on here will be able to help you untangle it a little.
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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Thanks for taking the time to reply Romilly.
I'm leaning towards my family just having a lot of bad luck with clerical errors combined with the fact they were illiterate. Because the occupations all match up. So I guess my main question is why is the marriage listed twice? Is that unusual?
And also, any information about the mysterious 2nd marriage certificate with the new witness.
Basically just interested to get ideas and opinions and if these sort of doubling up of results has happened to anyone else.
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The marriage is only indexed twice (or more likely four times) because of the Caroline Harriet/ Harriet Caroline issue. There will only be one certificate. There will probably be two more listings for Rosenberg/Sullivan, though I haven't checked - still only one cert though.
The witness change (William to Nellie) will be a clerical error probably because at some stage a clerk couldn't read what was written. You would need to look at an original parish record or ask the local register office (Stepney, I imagine) to check for you.
For some reason your gran got or was given a modern copy of the marriage cert perhaps for pension purposes or out of curiosity or because someone else was doing the family history. The copy was made under the 1949 act, and the date has no bearing on the 1931 marriage.
As regards the Bryant/Brian/O'Brien issue - they all refer to the same name but some people dropped the O' or Mc bits of Irish names because they sounded "too Irish" and if they were illiterate, it's not surprising there was some confusion.
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(On his marriage certificate)
(Of which there are two, for some reason, everything the same except the witnesses names)
Groom's name: Bernard Arthur Sullivan otherwise Rosenberg (His mother re-married William Sullivan when he was 7, which explains the name change).
Bride's name: Caroline Harriet O'Brien (But then where it says "This marriage was solemnised between us" at the bottom, her name is switched around, to Harriet Caroline O'Brien)
Groom's father: William Rosenberg
Witnesses (on cert #1): C. O'Brien, George O'Brien, William O'Brien
Witnesses (on cert #2): C. O'Brien, George O'Brien, Nellie O'Brien.
Certificate two is in completely different handwriting, with a handwritten date "6.1.1992" down the bottom, so I'm assuming it was hand written in 1992. My grandmother had this certificate in her collection and I've no idea where she would have gotten it. Also on the 2nd marriage certificate, it says at the top "CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF MARRIAGE, PURSUANT TO THE MARRIAGE ACT OF 1949" but the marriage took place in 1931. I don't understand?
Don't make life any more complicated than it already is :o ::)
People (especially Family Historians) get copies of certificates for all sorts of reasons! These will show the date when they were issued.
The second copy dated 1992, is exactly what it says
a CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF MARRIAGE
So an official in a Register office has made an official (certified) handwritten copy of an entry in the register. I suspect that this person misread William as Nellie.
Bride's name: Caroline Harriet O'Brien
this is the name she was registered with at birth
Harriet Caroline O'Brien
this will have been her normal signature in the register when she got married. Presumably she was known as Harriet rather than Caroline :)
Linda
Ooops - sorry alpinecottage. But at least we agree :)
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if you check the ref on the 2 certificates you will find they are both the same
\stepney \london Oct qtr vol 1c page 392 so whichever one you sent for it would be same.
as for name changes I would need a doublesided page to go into all differences I have found while researching mine and others families.
sandie
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My husband's grandfather was always known as Arthur Edmund, but when the family came to register his death and had to produce a birth certificate to prove his age, they found his name was Edmund Arthur. They then had to produce other documents, utility bills etc. to prove that it was the same person.
He was born in 1875, but he knew his name. He was always Edmund A on census, until he got married when he changed it to Arthur E. On the 1901 census he is Arthur E, on the 1911 census Edmund A, and some time later until his death was known as Arthur E. ::)
This is just an example to show that just because you find someone with the correct names in different order, it doesn't mean it's not the same person.
Lizzie
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My how strange that one family have what seems to be so many errors
Bernard is documented as being born 31/07/1910 and died 1998 at Southend, possible birth took place in Alton Hampshire ref 2c 171 1910 Dec qtr you can possibly find him on 1911 census with his parents
Louisa Maud
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That's what I thought Louisa Maud. Incredible that out of all the families I'm researching, THIS one has so many clerical errors and name changes. But I know they're the same people due to the occupations matching up. Thanks for all your stories, it does make me feel better that people can empathise :)
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I have never seen so many clerical errors before, it seems quite bizare to be honest, it is a pity you can't see the original entries in the church ledgers, the 1992 certificate is obviously written as a copy upon someone's request, I know sometimes when someone retires they need a birth cert to confirm dates of birth but in 1992 Bernard was passed retirement age
Louisa Maud
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I have found the service record of Richard Thomas Rosenberg b 1875 in Bournemouth.He has crossed through the marriage section but does list 4 children.
Richard John Sydney b 3/3/1900 hammersmith
Doris Alexandra b 12/10/1903 Fulham
Stanley Arthur b 2/8/1906 Putney
Bernard b 17/7/1909 Alton Hants
I have ancestors with a German/Jewish surname who changed it in 1915 as it was not the best name to have in London during WW1 !
Carol
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I think dad must have been confused when giving the kids dates of birth as Bernard wasn't registered till Dec 1910 ;D
Births Dec 1910
ROSENBERG Bernard A ref Alton 2c 171
Sorry LM ;)
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In 1901 they are at 26 Ashlone Road Putney
Richard Rosenberg head 28 engine driver b Westminster
Annie B wife 25 b Hounslow
Richard J son 2 b Hammersmith
RG13/489 folio 132 page 27
Carol
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Bernard was born in July according to his death registration, my guess is he just missed Sept Qtr, possibly just registered in time for the 6 weeks dead line
LM
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He might well have crossed through marr section as there does not appear to be a marriage between Rosenberg and Miller
LM
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Marriage Dec qtr 1917 Whitechapel Annie B Miller & William Sullivan?
Jennifer
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Hello,
This part of my family tree has been puzzling me for a long time. Now I have decided to get some outside opinions. I'm hoping there is someone out there patient enough to read all of this!! ??? What I've written here may go over a lot of heads - But I need to tell someone, and where better to post than Rootschat? Here goes...
My grandmother hated her parents. Her brothers and sister also hated said parents. My grandmother has Alzheimer's so I cannot discuss this with her, and my great uncles and aunt live overseas, and they don't know much about their family or even their parents because none of them were very close or ever cared to know.
The aforementioned parents' names are:
Bernard Alfred Sullivan (born Rosenberg), and
Harriet Caroline O'Brien.
DISCREPANCIES:
BERNARD:
(On his birth certificate)
Name: Bernard Alfred
Father: Richard Thomas Rosenberg
Mother: Annie Blanche Miles
(On his daughter's birth certificate)
Child's name: Patricia Ann Sullivan
Father: Bernard Alfred Sullivan
Mother: Harriet Caroline O'Brien
(On his marriage certificate)
(Of which there are two, for some reason, everything the same except the witnesses names)
Groom's name: Bernard Arthur Sullivan otherwise Rosenberg (His mother re-married William Sullivan when he was 7, which explains the name change).
Bride's name: Caroline Harriet O'Brien (But then where it says "This marriage was solemnised between us" at the bottom, her name is switched around, to Harriet Caroline O'Brien)
Groom's father: William Rosenberg
Witnesses (on cert #1): C. O'Brien, George O'Brien, William O'Brien
Witnesses (on cert #2): C. O'Brien, George O'Brien, Nellie O'Brien.
Certificate two is in completely different handwriting, with a handwritten date "6.1.1992" down the bottom, so I'm assuming it was hand written in 1992. My grandmother had this certificate in her collection and I've no idea where she would have gotten it. Also on the 2nd marriage certificate, it says at the top "CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF MARRIAGE, PURSUANT TO THE MARRIAGE ACT OF 1949" but the marriage took place in 1931. I don't understand?
P.S. Where the father's name has changed from "Richard Thomas Rosenberg" to "William Rosenberg" is it possible Bernard tried to explain that his biological father was Richard Thomas Rosenberg but his step-father was William Sullivan, and the person writing just transcribed it incorrectly? Where he is Richard Thomas on his son's birth certificate his occupation is Motor Car Driver, and where he is William Rosenberg on his son's marriage certificate, his occupation is Chauffeur - which fit.
HARRIET CAROLINE:
(Birth certificate)
Child's name: Harriet Caroline
Father: Cornelius Bryant
(On this certificate, under "Sex" they have written 'Boy' and crossed it out to write 'Girl'. And they've also written 'Brian' and crossed it out, wherever it said Bryant. Why would she have been born Bryant and gone on to use the name O'Brien?)
This is all making me have a sneaking suspicion that the information I have been provided by my grandmother (before she got Alzheimer's) and my great uncle, has been inaccurate and people aren't really who we think they are. I will probably have to start back at square one!
Or could it be that this side of my family just had a lot of bad luck when it came to people transcribing things? I have been told they were illiterate - Maybe they forgot their parents names, or their own? (Bernard Alfred became Bernard Arthur, Harriet Caroline Bryant became Caroline Harriet O'Brien, etc).
I have attached an image. Why would the marriage be entered twice? I have two certificates, and two results on ancestry.com. Does that make sense to anyone?
Thank you in advance, whoever replies, I LOVE YOU!! :P
Amy.
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I'm not sure I'm using this site properly so I really hope you see this. We are second cousins. My sister has reached the exact same roadblock you have !!
I came across your post while searching for more answers too. You can email me
S. SULLIVAN (*)
You might have met my dad a few years back when he came to visit his sister.
She came here shortly after his death and her daughter, (L) came with her.
Please write me, my sister and I would love to hear from you and maybe we can all combine our efforts and get somewhere with it. I look forward to your reply.
quote author=amypatricia1 link=topic=567750.msg4200145#msg4200145 date=1321949553]
Hello,
This part of my family tree has been puzzling me for a long time. Now I have decided to get some outside opinions. I'm hoping there is someone out there patient enough to read all of this!! ??? What I've written here may go over a lot of heads - But I need to tell someone, and where better to post than Rootschat? Here goes...
My grandmother hated her parents. Her brothers and sister also hated said parents. My grandmother has Alzheimer's so I cannot discuss this with her, and my great uncles and aunt live overseas, and they don't know much about their family or even their parents because none of them were very close or ever cared to know.
The aforementioned parents' names are:
Bernard Alfred Sullivan (born Rosenberg), and
Harriet Caroline O'Brien.
DISCREPANCIES:
BERNARD:
(On his birth certificate)
Name: Bernard Alfred
Father: Richard Thomas Rosenberg
Mother: Annie Blanche Miles
(On his daughter's birth certificate)
Child's name: Patricia Ann Sullivan
Father: Bernard Alfred Sullivan
Mother: Harriet Caroline O'Brien
(On his marriage certificate)
(Of which there are two, for some reason, everything the same except the witnesses names)
Groom's name: Bernard Arthur Sullivan otherwise Rosenberg (His mother re-married William Sullivan when he was 7, which explains the name change).
Bride's name: Caroline Harriet O'Brien (But then where it says "This marriage was solemnised between us" at the bottom, her name is switched around, to Harriet Caroline O'Brien)
Groom's father: William Rosenberg
Witnesses (on cert #1): C. O'Brien, George O'Brien, William O'Brien
Witnesses (on cert #2): C. O'Brien, George O'Brien, Nellie O'Brien.
Certificate two is in completely different handwriting, with a handwritten date "6.1.1992" down the bottom, so I'm assuming it was hand written in 1992. My grandmother had this certificate in her collection and I've no idea where she would have gotten it. Also on the 2nd marriage certificate, it says at the top "CERTIFIED COPY OF AN ENTRY OF MARRIAGE, PURSUANT TO THE MARRIAGE ACT OF 1949" but the marriage took place in 1931. I don't understand?
P.S. Where the father's name has changed from "Richard Thomas Rosenberg" to "William Rosenberg" is it possible Bernard tried to explain that his biological father was Richard Thomas Rosenberg but his step-father was William Sullivan, and the person writing just transcribed it incorrectly? Where he is Richard Thomas on his son's birth certificate his occupation is Motor Car Driver, and where he is William Rosenberg on his son's marriage certificate, his occupation is Chauffeur - which fit.
HARRIET CAROLINE:
(Birth certificate)
Child's name: Harriet Caroline
Father: Cornelius Bryant
(On this certificate, under "Sex" they have written 'Boy' and crossed it out to write 'Girl'. And they've also written 'Brian' and crossed it out, wherever it said Bryant. Why would she have been born Bryant and gone on to use the name O'Brien?)
This is all making me have a sneaking suspicion that the information I have been provided by my grandmother (before she got Alzheimer's) and my great uncle, has been inaccurate and people aren't really who we think they are. I will probably have to start back at square one!
Or could it be that this side of my family just had a lot of bad luck when it came to people transcribing things? I have been told they were illiterate - Maybe they forgot their parents names, or their own? (Bernard Alfred became Bernard Arthur, Harriet Caroline Bryant became Caroline Harriet O'Brien, etc).
I have attached an image. Why would the marriage be entered twice? I have two certificates, and two results on ancestry.com. Does that make sense to anyone?
Thank you in advance, whoever replies, I LOVE YOU!! :P
Amy.
[/quote]
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If our ancestors had filled in every form correctly all the detective work in family history would disappear!
Anyway my reading of what I have seen to date is:
Richard Thomas Rosenberg (as stated by Carole8353) has an army record available online
In this, the information provided by the recruit states that he had four children (names and dates given previously) but there are no details of a marriage, this may indicate he was already estranged from Annie when he gave this information (top sheet dated Feb 20 1915).
When you read on in the records there is a “change of next of kin” to R. Rosenberg c/o Mrs. Sullivan, Homelands Beach, Alton, Hants. on Feb 09 1918.
This would tie in with the remarriage of Annie in 1917 and indicate that, had Richard been married, a divorce must have taken place, for which there should be a record.
Interestingly there is a letter dated Feb 10th 1915 that seems to state that he is unmarried
– see attached snapshot of word on letter;
but there is a letter of application for a separated allowance dated Apr 30 1918 and date stamped May 18 1918
that states he married Annie Blance Mille(r? Or s?) on Apr 02 1899 in Margate, Kent;
also on this form are listed the four children but with different birth dates from the original form. The months seem to correspond but the years are all out by at least one!
There is a note that they could find no marriage record to agree to information given.
This is a long shot but there is a marriage in Medway Kent in 1887 Apr-Jun (V2A P902).
It is of an Ann Miller to Richard Thomas Foster and there does not seem to be a good match on the 1901 census for this couple with the names as is; (there is a Richard and Alice).
Marriage of Annie B Miller to William Sullivan Oct-Dec 1917 Whitechapel London (V1C P366)
shows no reference to Rosenberg which could indicate either no first marriage or a divorce
but confirms MILLER as more likely name than MILES
Birth Annie Blanch MILLER Pancras London Jul-Sep 1878 (V1B P55) is then a good option for Annie's birth
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Welcome to Rootschat Sharon1234. You need to remove your e-mail from your post or you are likely to be bombarded with spam. Amy can contact you through the Private Messaging option on this site, which is much safer.
My great grandparents were German and gave their children German names even though they were born in England. Then they anglicised them all, so it took me ages to find later records of them. My paternal grandmother, as far as I knew was Gertie (short for Gertrude) but it wasn't until she died that I discovered she was Alice Gertrude. She was also a year older that she had always claimed.
I think in years gone by, when people weren't bombarded with official forms and other ways of identification, they did use the names they were known by rather that the ones they were given at birth. So when it came to something official they filled it in without thinking and then perhaps had to admit they'd got it wrong.
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Hi Amy
Quite a long time ago I put you in touch with relatives in England, I do believe you have their email address, do you think they can help you further, I did do a huge amount of work for them as they are my friends
A marriage did not take place between Mr Rosenberg and Annie, that probably made it easier for Annie to marry Mr Sullivan 1918,
Bernard did take on the surname of his step father, Sullivan although he was born as Bernard Rosenberg
The Rosenberg's originally first showed up in Lambeth, they seemed to be in the print or colour trade from about 1832, where they came from originally I do not know
How strange tha tthere is a marriage in Medway, Richard Thomas Foster when we are looking for a Richard Thomas Rosenberg, what about a purchase of this cert to clarify matters, we do know who Richard's father was.
Best regards
Louisa Maud
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Hi everyone, and in particular Louisa Maud, of course I remember you and all of your help. I am in touch with Ron and Eileen and their nephew Barry as well, it's wonderful. This was posted a very long time ago and I have learned a lot about the Rosenbergs since then. My main curiosity now is with the O'Briens. I know that people named O'Brien often dropped the O' so their names were less Irish, but as far as I can tell, my O'Briens BECAME O'Briens, FROM being Bryants and Brians, which is puzzling.
Thank you for all the replies, I had long forgotten about this post, it must have bumped up on the forum because it's had several replies in the last couple of days. I think I will change the status to case closed and write a new post just about the O'Briens.
(Fun fact for those of you following - The Rosenberg man who did NOT actually marry Annie Blanche Miller but had four children out of wedlock with her, actually abandoned his family and moved away, never to be heard from again. We've recently discovered he changed his name to Roseberry whilst there, remarried and had a son, who subsequently was a Roseberry).
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Hi Carol My is name sally Jacobs I live with a Stanley William Sullivan who is related to you he is your cousin . Bernard Alfred Sullivan being his Uncle kind regards Sally +Stanley
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Hi everyone, and in particular Louisa Maud, of course I remember you and all of your help. I am in touch with Ron and Eileen and their nephew Barry as well, it's wonderful. This was posted a very long time ago and I have learned a lot about the Rosenbergs since then. My main curiosity now is with the O'Briens. I know that people named O'Brien often dropped the O' so their names were less Irish, but as far as I can tell, my O'Briens BECAME O'Briens, FROM being Bryants and Brians, which is puzzling.
Thank you for all the replies, I had long forgotten about this post, it must have bumped up on the forum because it's had several replies in the last couple of days. I think I will change the status to case closed and write a new post just about the O'Briens.
(Fun fact for those of you following - The Rosenberg man who did NOT actually marry Annie Blanche Miller but had four children out of wedlock with her, actually abandoned his family and moved away, never to be heard from again. We've recently discovered he changed his name to Roseberry whilst there, remarried and had a son, who subsequently was a Roseberry).
Hi Carol My is name sally Jacobs I live with a Stanley William Sullivan who is related to you he is your cousin . Bernard Alfred Sullivan being his Uncle kind regards Sally +Stanley
I have found the service record of Richard Thomas Rosenberg b 1875 in Bournemouth.He has crossed through the marriage section but does list 4 children.
Richard John Sydney b 3/3/1900 hammersmith
Doris Alexandra b 12/10/1903 Fulham
Stanley Arthur b 2/8/1906 Putney
Bernard b 17/7/1909 Alton Hants
I have ancestors with a German/Jewish surname who changed it in 1915 as it was not the best name to have in London during WW1 !
Carol
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Hi Sally
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
This topic belongs to amypatricia1 who hasn't been online here for a couple of months but she should receive email notifications that we have posted and hopefully come back soon.
Dawn
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Hi Carol My is name sally Jacobs I live with a Stanley William Sullivan who is related to you he is your cousin . Bernard Alfred Sullivan being his Uncle kind regards Sally +Stanley
Hi Sally,
Sorry I haven't been checking my forum replies, I didn't seem to be getting email notifications about them!
Bernard Alfred Sullivan was my grandma Patricia's father. I would love to know more about Stanley's family and connections if possible, so I can add the new information to my family tree.
I'm researching another branch of my family at the moment, another incredibly complicated one, but I will try to wrap my head around it all if I can!
Sorry again for the delayed response, it was lovely to hear from you and I hope you see this and are able to reply soon :)
Amy
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Hi Sally Jacobs
Just to confuse things further.... my grandmother Phyllis is Bernard Alfred Sullivan's niece! Her father Richard, was the only one of the four Rosenberg children NOT to change their name to Sullivan!! I cannot believe that this detective work is still continuing...it's SO addictive!
Best wishes
Barry
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Hi Sharon
I've just been reading your posts/chat with Amy and I'm left trying to work out exactly how we are related too. My grandmother Phyllis's father was Richard Sidney Rosenberg. He was the eldest of the four children born to Richard Thomas Rosenberg and Annie Blanche Miller and the only one who DIDN'T change his name to Sullivan.
Best wishes
Barry
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Hi Barry I am married to Stanley William Sullivan his Father was Stanley Arthur Sullivan who is the Brother of Richard . Hopefully to hear from you again Best wishes Sally
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Hi Sharon
I've just been reading your posts/chat with Amy and I'm left trying to work out exactly how we are related too. My grandmother Phyllis's father was Richard Sidney Rosenberg. He was the eldest of the four children born to Richard Thomas Rosenberg and Annie Blanche Miller and the only one who DIDN'T change his name to Sullivan.
Best wishes
Barry
Barry,
Sharon is the daughter of Bernard Sullivan (Bernard Alfred Rosenberg and Harriet Caroline O'Brien's eldest son). I believe you are second cousins once removed.
xx Amy
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Thanks for clearing that up Amy. This family tree 'stuff' is seemingly never-ending!!! ha ha! Hope you are all well and had a great Christmas and New Year!! x