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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: christmack on Sunday 20 November 11 00:06 GMT (UK)
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We have recently obtained the following death certificate but we cannot find any records of the GLAND nor the HENNESSY families prior to these records :
1. Eliza(beth) LAWLOR nee HENNESSY (also spelt LAWLER) who died in New South Wales, Australia in 1930 and it shows her parents as John HENNESSY and Margaret GLAND.
John HENNESSY was a Court Magistrate. John died in Shanagolden, Limerick, Ireland on the 9th March 1885 at 87 years. (born C1798)
Margaret HENNESSY nee GLAND died 24th April 1886 at 81 years. (born C1806)
As well as Eliza(beth) their other children were Thomas, Robert and George HENNESSY.
The records I have checked so far are Roots Ireland, Ancestry and Family Search and they do not reveal anything to add to the above unless I missed something.
There was a family story that this family line went back to Spain so maybe the GLAND family did come from Europe ???
Hoping someone can help me,
Cheers,
Christine
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Do you have any idea where Margaret and John were married or born ?
There are very few parishes that have records back to the early 1800s or earlier, so checking for possible baptisms will be very difficult without knowing a location - ideally a townland or parish.
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The records I have checked so far are Roots Ireland, Ancestry and Family Search and they do not reveal anything to add to the above unless I missed something.
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If the events could have taken place in Co. Kerry, Dublin City certain other areas then you need to add www.irishgenealogy.ie to your list of record sources. Also vital to remember that there are a number of counties, and parts of counties, that dont have records online at the moment.
see :
Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Shane
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Thank you Shane I will check out all of your suggestions.
I have not been able to find a marriage for Margaret Gland and John Hennessy so far nor where they are from but maybe I will find something out from the links you have given me.
I do think that Margaret Gland is not from Ireland as the surname seems to be more from around France and there are a number in England but I have not been able to confirm this so far.
Thank you again,
Christine
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There were actually quite a few people named GLAND born in Ireland pre-civil registration. Just type Gland (surname) and Ireland (place) in https://www.familysearch.org/ and you'll see.
Many French Huguenots families settled in Ireland so if the Glands were French they could be part of that group.
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Aghadowey,
Thank you for that suggestion. As mentioned I had tried Family Search before but I did try it again and came up with 15 who were born in Ireland but they were all, at the time of the record, either in the United States or England and Margaret GLAND had already married and therefore was an HENNESSY.
Also as you suggested there were a lot of Hugenot families who came to Ireland so this could well be the French connection.
Thank you again,
Christine
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/0hf3/
A brief letter from John Hennesey of Shanagolden.
John HENNESSY was a Court Magistrate. John died in Shanagolden, Limerick, Ireland on the 9th March 1885 at 87 years. (born C1798)
Margaret HENNESSY nee GLAND died 24th April 1886 at 81 years. (born C1806)
As well as Eliza(beth) their other children were Thomas, Robert and George HENNESSY.
Did Robert Thomas and George stay in Ireland?
What is your source for the death and the "Court Magistrate" bit - just for having a look for an Obit.
PM
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PM,
Thank you for the article from John Hennessy. At the moment I am trying to work out how to copy that section so that I can paste it into my records for JH.
As far as I know the Brothers all stayed in Ireland as a reply to a letter sent to the Sergeant of Police in 1926 states that as far as they knew they all died in Dublin.
On the original death certificate for John Hennessy it states that he died on the 8th March 1885 at Shanagolden, that he was married and 87 years old. He was an ex-Clerk of Petty Sessions.
His son Thomas was present at the death in Shanagolden.
His Church Burial record says the same except that he died on the 9th and that his denomination was Church of Ireland.
I only have the Civil death record for Margaret Hennessy nee GLAND and it states she died at Shanagolden on 24th April 1886 at Shanagolden, that she was a Widow and 81 years of age, that she was the wife of a Petty Session's ex Clerk and that the informant was her Son, Robert Hennessy and his address was Shanagolden.
In the reply to the letter written from here in Australia in 1926 to the Police Sergeant in Limerick, Ireland they stated that John HENNESSY, Clerk of Petty Sessions and his wife Margaret both died in Shanagolden, Limerick around 1886. (We do know that John died in 1885).
It also said that they had 3 sons, Robert, George and Thomas. (And of course Eliza(beth) .
1. Robert was Head Warder in the Mountjoy Prison in Dublin and when retired he obtained a position in Findlater's, Dublin.
2. George became Clerk of Petty Sessions in Shanagolden after his Father. It was believed he later went to Dublin where he died.
3. Thomas was a member of the Royal Irish Constabulary and was believed to have died also in Dublin around 1914.
4. Their daughter was Eliza(beth) who married William LAWLOR and she was born around 1840. They cam to Australia in 1865 on the ship the "Royal Dane".
The surname of their Mother Margaret was listed as GLAND.
Thank you again,
Christine
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Looks like that letter was followed up:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0hfz/
Here is Robert in Mounjoy:
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1902/nov/20/irish-prison-officials-chief-warder
Maryborough Prison is in Co. Laois:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/search.xml?query=Maryborough+Convict+Prison+&query.x=3&query.y=20
If you are having trouble saving these items, just PM me and I'll save them and send.
Did you find Robert, Thomas and George on the 1901/1911 census of Ireland? I had a quick look but couldn't find any of them....? Just wondering if they had descendants who might have info about Margaret Gland. Only came across that surname once before, in Co. Sligo, where it had variants Glind and Glanny, apart from what you found in the IGI.
Will have a look further for obit/s
PM
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PM,
Thank you so much for those extracts.
I was away from my computer yesterday so I have only seen your reply just now.
At least this prves that we are going in the right direction but it would very great if we could find out more especially on John Hennessy and his wife Margaret nee GLAND.
I cannot seem to find out where they were born. Even the birthplace of the children is a mystery.
By the way I did manage to copy those pages you sent, you will laugh but I had forgotten to turn my printer on !!!
I have not found the sons yet on the 1911 census but if the reply to the letter of 1926 is correct I guess that they would have died before then but I will follow up on the 1901 census.
Christine
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I have drawn a blank on John as I can't find him anywhere else on line, and I don't have access to Limerick newspapers of the period. I don't know much about Clarks of Petty Sessions and/or if records were kept for them. Perhaps someone here would have ideas on how to proceed further?
PM
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PM,
Thank you for all of your help.
Christine
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http://eppi.dippam.ac.uk/documents/13709/eppi_pages/352281
Has John h in Shanagolden in 1852.
Pm
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Thank you PM. All of these extra pieces are really helpful as they help to place a person in the area they are at that time period.
Christine
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Another obscure one, bottom line right hand col, Sorry I could not find anything more interesting!
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/28034/supplements/4435/page.pdf
And also:
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1904/jul/28/alleged-wrongful-dismissal-of-s-j
PM
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PM,
Thanks again.
You are certainly helping us to build up a picture of the family and where they lived and when.
Christine
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Hello, I am a descendant of Robert Hennessey of Shanagolden, b.c. 1849, living in Dublin.
See you've done research on siblings George & Eliza. I've done a lot of work on Robt.
Is there still a Hennessy/Lawlor family in Australia? ... and are are there still family members living in Armagh (N.Ire) and England, where George died.
Best wishes,
Mad Brad
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I would like to correct the following information as we have records now that show that John HENNESSY's wife was Margaret GINNANE and not GLAND as originally thought.
I would love to hear from anyone who has any information on John and Margaret's family.
This was my original post :
We have recently obtained the following death certificate but we cannot find any records of the GLAND nor the HENNESSY families prior to these records :
1. Eliza(beth) LAWLOR nee HENNESSY (also spelt LAWLER) who died in New South Wales, Australia in 1930 and it shows her parents as John HENNESSY and Margaret GLAND.
John HENNESSY was a Court Magistrate. John died in Shanagolden, Limerick, Ireland on the 9th March 1885 at 87 years. (born C1798)
Margaret HENNESSY nee GLAND died 24th April 1886 at 81 years. (born C1806)
As well as Eliza(beth) their other children were Thomas, Robert and George HENNESSY.
The records I have checked so far are Roots Ireland, Ancestry and Family Search and they do not reveal anything to add to the above unless I missed something.
There was a family story that this family line went back to Spain so maybe the GLAND family did come from Europe
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You have this death certificate -
NSW BDM death
11414/1930 LAWLER Eliza parents John / Margaret @ Redfern (20 Aug 1930)
Can you please list all the information on the document....everything....and as a list.
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Thank you Wivenhoe for your reply. Unfortunately John Hennessy and Margaret nee Ginnane didn't come to Australia so this Eliza would not be ours. It was a later generation who emigrated.
Thank you again, Christine
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http://www.easternsuburbsmemorialpark.com.au/finding-loved-ones
Eastern Suburbs Cemetery
William LAWLOR bur 30/11/1921 UA - Uniting FM A, Position 174
Eliza LAWLOR bur 21/08/1930 UA - Uniting FM A, Position 174
BDM NSW death
16031/1921 LAWLOR William parents John / Elizabeth @ Redfern
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/keyname
Deceased Estate
LAWLOR William Botany (died) 28/11/1921 (duty paid) 15/03/1922 [19/10206] 3027
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Not what you asked for..
Have a look at these deaths from the Limerick Chronicle
http://www.limerickcity.ie/Library/LocalStudies/ObituariesdeathnoticesetcfromtheLimerickChronicle/Alphabeticallistingsofobituariesdeathnoticesetc/alphabetical1%20H.pdf
There is a death of Ann Mary 1875 Foynes daughter of George N Hennessy Petty Session Clerk
And Maria Blanche 1881 William's St daughter of George N
You need to scroll down to page 81.
This site is pretty good for Limerick
http://limerickslife.com/limerick-family-history/
And Civil records have improved a lot
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
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for reference
Robert was a police constable on his marriage to Ellen Donovan in Kinsale Feb 1872 Catholic Church
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11303/8146846.pdf
by Dec 1872 Robert was in Galway as a railway clerk his wife was at home in Minane giving birth to son John
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03204/2174707.pdf
1874 he was a clerk son Patrick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_amends/cert_1874/2152582a.pdf
1876 son Robert he was warder on Spike Island
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03063/2122811.pdf
1901 he's chief warder Queen's
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Queen_s_Co_/Maryborough_Urban/Dublin_Street/1649386/
1911 Dublin a clerk
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Sackville_Street__Upper/28888/
died 1915 at Sackville St informant appears to be his brother Thomas of 51 Gt Charles St
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05266/4461524.pdf
and appears to be buried in Glasnevin when entering Sackville into adress box
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
2 thing's to note from the above he obviously left the Constabulary in 1872 so you should be able to find records
and as he was married in a catholic church the priest may have insisted he get baptised as an adult
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Thomas a widower married Anne Golding 1904 in St Mary's Pro Cathedral,Dublin unfortunately he did not give his mothers full name just that he was the son of John and Margaret both deceased
civil cert
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10200/5711701.pdf
church register
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633798#page/191/mode/1up
1911 Ex Sergeant R I C
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Charles_Street__Great/27354/
not finding an obvious 1901 census or previous marriage or even a death for him but sadly his son Elias died 1916 and is buried in Glasnevin so you could find out from Glasnevin if its a family grave
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05245/4453447.pdf
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John in his will written in 1884 names his wife as Margaret Ginnane
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/wr/details.jsp?id=IRE/ORIG/WILL/REG/4476
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On Anna's and Maria's birth Certs mother name is Margaret Delaney
George had become a reporter by the time of Maria's birth
Anna 1875 birth her death cert image isn't online yet
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03107/2139632.pdf
Maria birth 1881
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02822/2035248.pdf
Death 1881
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06418/4843512.pdf
George and Margaret married in 1874
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1874/11241/8122104.pdf
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Sinnan unusual occupation for his father on the marriage cert
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I was trying to read it!? I was just going to look at what you had found to see what they say
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Hmm appears to have married in Londonderry 1889 as a Bachelor to Edith Lynas
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10749/5919768.pdf
family 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Armagh_Rural/Drumadd_Town/326841/
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Armagh_Rural/Drumadd__Village_/1009553/
George 1901 London
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X98Y-ZVK
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Thank you Dathai and Sinann so much for all of that information. I have saved all those documents and tomorrow I'll go through them all.
I am also really curious about that occupation of John Hennessy, George's father. The second word I feel is "Maker".
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Barrack Master?
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Barrack Master?
Yes with a squashed up 's'. Looks a bit like Mater.
Here is a definition 'The officer who superintends the barracks of soldiers.'
When I first saw it, being hungry at the time, I read 'bread maker.'
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George jnr born 1892 father in Finchley ,London a Journalist
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02361/1881746.pdf
Married Evelyn Maud Boyd Sep 1914 father George an Engine Driver
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1914/09853/5578145.pdf
daughter Annie born Dec 1914 father George,Corporal no 14333, A Company,9th Batt R I F
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01397/1574410.pdf
George Died Oct 1965
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearchResults.aspx
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1823-1837 Tithes Applotment Books from http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/
Gland James Sullivan Glebe Clogheen Kilgarriff Cork
he had 34 irish acres i couldnt find in Griffiths