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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northamptonshire => England => Northamptonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: cherylj on Friday 18 November 11 11:05 GMT (UK)

Title: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: cherylj on Friday 18 November 11 11:05 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

After such a spectacular response on another post for Northampton, I am asking for another lookup.

I have an Annie Kinnier born 1858 Northampton

She married a Charles Robert Fenton in Dec 1885 Shoreditch, London

They had 3 children, Robert. Elizabeth and Annie.

Then Charles passed away and she remarried my Frederick Dickens (a widower at the time).

They married on 2nd June 1895 in Bethnal Green.  On their marriage certificate her father is listed as John Kinnier - Bootmaker.



I am looking to find information on Annie's parents.


Cheers

Cheryl
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: Holly Golightly on Friday 18 November 11 14:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Cheryl,

I took a look at the 1901 & 1891 Census as well of the marriage and according to the ages she was born in 1868, so I'm assuming 1858 is a typo in your post.

It would seem this is her birth:
Annie Kinneir Dec Qtr 1868 Northampton 3b 78

Possible siblings from bmd:
Henry Samuel Jun 1863 3b 79
John Mar 1871 3b 96

1871 Census - RG10/1488 Folio:56 Page:30
2 Court 1 St Mary St, All Saints Northamptonshire
Elizabeth Kinneir Head 35 Widow Shoe Fitter b-Northampton
Thomas Irons   Son   16 Shoe Maker b- Northampton
Eliza   Irons Daughter 14 Shoe Fitter b-Northampton
Sarah Irons Daughter 11   b-Northampton
Henry Kinneir Son 7   Scholar b-Northampton
Fanny Kinneir Daughter 5 Scholar b-Northampton
Anna Kinneir Daughter 2 b-Northampton
John   Kinneir Son 2 Months b-Northampton   
George Bowld Boarder 19 Shoe Maker b-Blackwall, Staffordshire

Marriage June 1862 - Northampton 3b 138
Betsy Irons
John Kernier

Death September 1870
John Kinnear 36 3b 51 Northampton

In 1881 Census they are all scattered.
Henry (listed as Harry) is listed as 18 - Lodger b Northampton Shoe Finisher in the household of his brother Thomas Irons and family in St Giles.

10 year old John is in Shoreditch with sister Sarah and her husband (John Wright)

Fanny seems to be boarding in Rothwell Northamptonshire aged 15 in the household of Henry and Harriet Walker. She is listed as Machinist Shoes and listed as being born in Staffs

I havent yet located 12 year old Anna/Annie or her mother (either census, death or re marriage)

I'll keep looking, hope this helps so far.
Holly



Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Friday 18 November 11 15:32 GMT (UK)
To go with some of Holly's information she has kindly found for you.

John KINNEIR died at the Lunatic Asylum and was buried at St. Sepulchre's
on Aug 27 1870 aged 39.

The Lunatic Asylum mentioned could have been St. Andrews (off the
Billing Road).

Sandy
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Friday 18 November 11 15:56 GMT (UK)
On the 1861 Census it notes.

RG9/937, Fol 139, Pg  40, Sch 236, Liz St.

Eliza Irons, head, W, 59, charwoman, Houghton, Leics
Betsey, daur, un, 27, closer, Northampton
Eliza Elizabeth, granddaur, 4, Northampton
Sarah, granddaur, 2, Northampton

Sandy
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Friday 18 November 11 16:28 GMT (UK)
Also on the 1861 the son Thomas aged 7 is with his Aunt Mary Ann.

RG9/937, Fol 138, Pg  37, Sch 210, 27, Arundel  St

Sandy
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Friday 18 November 11 16:51 GMT (UK)
On the 1851 Census the family is at Palace Yard, St. Sepulchre.

HO107/1739, Fol 314, Pg 26, Sch 72

Eliza Irons, Head, Mar, 49, Laundress, Unknown
Samuel, Son, Unm, 22, groom, St Margaret's, Leicester
Henry, Son, Unm 18, Shoemaker, St Margaret's, Leicester
Elizabeth, Daur, Unm, 16, Shoe Closer, Northampton, All Saints
Mary, Daur, 13, Shoe Closer, Northampton, All Saints

Sandy
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Friday 18 November 11 17:00 GMT (UK)
Eliza PALMER married William Irons at St Margaret's Leicester on
26 June 1826.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0h8q/

Sandy
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Friday 18 November 11 17:39 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth Irons was baptised at All Saints daughter of William & Eliza
who were living at Weston Row (bricklayer) on the 22 Jul 1833.

She is noted as having been buried at All Saints on 15 Jun 1834 aged 1
and her parents being of Western Terrace.

There was another baptism entry for an Elizabeth on 10 Jul 1836 I think
this is the one you are related to.
 
Thomas Irons son of Elizabeth above died in 1895.

Billing Road Cemetery.

Thomas Irons aged 43 of 28 Austin Street, Northampton, died
Octr 21st 1895 and was buried Octr 24th in grave A2 1118

Annie his widow on the 1901 Census is at 83 Duke Street.

RG13/1421, Fol 39, Pg 18 Sch 116.

Sandy
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: cherylj on Saturday 19 November 11 02:59 GMT (UK)
Ok so I have read through all this information, Elizabeth Kinneir in the 1871 Census is married to John Kinneir (who died in 1870 in Mental Asylum).

The 1861 Census posted by Sandy shows Elizabeth's mother and Elizabeth (listed as Betsy).

Now the only question I have on the 1871 Census it lists Elizabeth Kinneir having children with the anme Irons, does this mean that those children were illegitimate?.  And could it be a possibility that they are John Kinneirs children??.

Wow you guys are fantastic, thank you again for your help on this query.

Cheryl
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: cherylj on Saturday 19 November 11 04:02 GMT (UK)
Found on IGI

Elizabeth or Betsy Irons
born 1835 All Saints, Northampton

Mr Irons married Eliza 1825 Northampton

Children:

Samuel 1829 St Margarets, Leicester
Henry 1833 St Margarets, Leicester
Eliza/Betsy 1835 All Saints, Northampton
Mary 1838 All Saints, NOrthampton

Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Saturday 19 November 11 10:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Cheryl.

On the 1871 Census Elizabeth was a widow as John had died in
1870 but she seems to have been carrying the last child John.

All the children prior to Henry Kinneir were illegitimate.

I did note the marriage of Eliza and William Irons on reply 6
and the link to show it was in Leicester not Northampton.

Elizabeth/Betsey would have been the same person.

Here in Northants, Alan Clarke on my web link below post
does free look-ups on some of his indexes by himself and
Marilyn (Rootschatter "mgeneas" ).

I am allowed to quote from them here so they are the entries
from the original parish records.

Also I have numerous resources as many others have here
to assist where I can.

I try on Rootschat to give folk correct information on their lineages
and hope that they will confirm with birth, marriage, deaths, burial
and Parish Records etc, to en-sure they are tracing the right folk
related to them.

When I started many, many years ago I must have spent over
£1,000 getting original certificates.

Now it so easy with Roots and other forums to assist at a drop
of a hat so to speak.  :)

Sandy

Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: cherylj on Saturday 19 November 11 20:07 GMT (UK)
Also on the 1861 the son Thomas aged 7 is with his Aunt Mary Ann.

RG9/937, Fol 138, Pg  37, Sch 210, 27, Arundel  St

Sandy

Sandy, could you check this record again and see what year his Aunt Mary was born??  KNowing this may connect the dots for Elizabeth Kinneirs parents, that I may have found.

Cheers

Cheryl
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Saturday 19 November 11 21:02 GMT (UK)
Mary Ann is noted as being 25 on the 1861 census Cheryl.

I spent a while in the Library today trying to find the marriage
of Betsey and John Kinnier in 1862 and came to the conclusion
that it may have been in a Registry Office or a Non-Conformist Church.

I could not find any of the children of Elizabeth being baptised
in All Saints, St Peter's, St Sepulchre's, St. Katherine's Parish Churches
in the Town of Northampton,or the children born to John and Elizabeth.

I did find an obituary for John though just stating he died in the
Lunatic Asylum on August 24th 1870 in the Mercury newspaper.

Sandy
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: cherylj on Monday 21 November 11 11:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Sandy, me again, god you must be getting sick of seeing my posts  ;D

The mary I found was Christened in 1838, so I cant be positive on that.

Also you quoted you found a death in the Mercury for a John Kinneir who died on the 24 August 1870.
Are you able to get me a copy of the obituary or let me knwo where you found it??

Cheers

Cheryl
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Monday 21 November 11 14:04 GMT (UK)
Hi yet again Cheryl.  :)

Make as many posts as you like if you need us to help you.  :)

The notice was merely noting the death so not an Obt. naming
names etc.

I will e-mail it to you if you wish.

Sandy
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: cherylj on Tuesday 22 November 11 00:19 GMT (UK)
Hi again Cheryl.

If you have a burial date and place you can look at the G.R.O.
Indexes to see which quarter and Registation District the death
took place in and order it that way.

Also if you wish you could send me a gedcom and I could enter
any other information for you from here although I do not wish
to take over your research else the fun goes out of it. 

I searched Free BMD, http://www.freereg.org.uk, http://www.freecen.org.uk, and Family Search and did not find anything relating to the death/marriage ro birth of John Kinneir/Kinnear/Kinnier/Kernier.

What a p[ain.. :)

Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Tuesday 22 November 11 08:06 GMT (UK)
It is noted as such on freebmd Cheryl.

Deaths Sep 1870  Kinnear  John  36  Northampton  3b 51

Sandy   

Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Tuesday 22 November 11 09:14 GMT (UK)
Hi again Cheryl.

I was only joking about the gedcom. I am much too busy making Christmas Cards.  ;D

I have now confirmed and am listing the Dickens/Dickins marriages
at Boughton from 1813-1837 below.

x  means they made their mark.

1. Boughton By Banns
Pg. 02 No. 06, 12 Oct 1816
Lydia DICKENS x otp Spinster & William BOTTERIN x otp Bachelor
Witnesses: William Wills x, James Butlin            

2. Boughton By License      
Pg. 08 No. 22, 29 Aug 1822
William DICKENS of Lamport  Bachelor & Sarah CRANFIELD otp Spinster
both being of lawful age
Witnesses: Benj. Cuffley, James Butlin                              

3. Boughton By Banns
Pg. 12 No. 36, 18 Oct 1827
George DICKENS x otp  Bachelor & Elizabeth FAULKNER x otp Spinster
Witnesses: Daniel Corby, William ?x                           

4. Boughton By Banns
Pg. 15 No. 43, 14 Oct 1829
Samuel DICKINS otp Bachelor & Charlotte ALLEN otp Spinster
Witnesses: George Tipler, Sarah Allen

5. Boughton By Banns
Pg. 15 No. 44, 27 Oct 1829
Allen DICKINS x otp & Elizabeth ARTHUR   x otp   
Witnesses: Jane Marshall, Thomas Arthur x

4. Boughton By Banns
Pg. 16 No.47, 22 Feb 1831
Sarah DICKENS x otp & Thomas BLUNT x of Moulton
Witnesses: David Butlin, Daniel Corby

5. Boughton By Banns
Pg. 18 No. 53, 28 Feb 1832
George DICKENS x otp Widower & Elizabeth BUSWELL x otp   
Witnesses: Jos Ward, Daniel Corby            

6. Boughton By Banns
Pg. 20 No. 58, 11 Nov 1834
John DICKENS otp & Hannah MASH otp
Witnesses: Thomas W Mash, Daniel Corby

Although these still need checking against the originals John Dickens
certainly married in Nov not Dec as on the N.M.I.

Off to make some Snow Globe Cards.  ;D

Sandy                           
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: cherylj on Tuesday 22 November 11 20:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks again, just curious are snow globe cards easy to make, it sounds fun.
Title: Re: Annie Kinnier/fenton/Dickens
Post by: seahall on Thursday 24 November 11 09:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Cheryl.

They are fun but take quite a bit of time especially as I like
to make family ones using photos from different images and
combining them into one.  :)

I will list some more information for you later on re: your Dicken family.

Sandy