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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: yosser on Thursday 17 November 11 19:09 GMT (UK)

Title: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: yosser on Thursday 17 November 11 19:09 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find a location and death date for Robert Boucher Herbert, born about 1867 in Gloucester.

Robert Boucher Herbert married Charlotte Frances Chappell 6 June 1892 in St. James, Upper Edmonton.

Children.

Percy Robert                   1894 Sussex
Arthur Montague Charles   1895 Sussex
Ernest Wallace George       1897 Sussex
Frank Leslie                      1901 Surrey

After their father deserted the family the three youngest were picked up off the street and shipped to Canada in May 1908 under the Home Children label.

Charlotte is listed in the 1911 census in Seven oaks, Kent as a widow.
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: t mo on Thursday 17 November 11 20:20 GMT (UK)
hi yosser
on looking at ww1 records one or two come up for robert herbert,s born gloucestershire to help elimination of records do you know the name of robert,s father and mother also was he actually born in gloucester itself or in gloucestershire .
regards
trevor
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: suzard on Thursday 17 November 11 20:49 GMT (UK)
this looks like marriage details -so may help in research
Marriage after Banns
St Johns Church Edmonton 6 Jun 1892
Robert Boucher Herbert 25 Bachelor occ Outfitter of 38 St Johns Rd Clapham father John Herbert occ Sergeant major
Charlotte Fanny Chappell 19 spinster of 9 Rose Terrace Edmonton father George Chappell occ labourer

witnesses
James (?) Boucher Herbert
Montague Boucher Clapp
all signed

Suz
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: suzard on Thursday 17 November 11 20:56 GMT (UK)
There is a death reg for James Boucher Herbert in 1903 age 39 Norwich reg dist

There is a marriage reg in Norfolk for him too

Wonder if he was a brother???

Can't find birth reg's for either of them

Suz
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: yosser on Thursday 17 November 11 21:11 GMT (UK)
t mo and Suzard

I am not sure if Robert was born in Gloucester or some place in Gloucestershire.
His father was John Boulbee Herbert 1831-1904, his mother was Sarah Pimble 1827-1911.

One brother was James Boulbee 1863 died in Norwich in 1903.

This is a quote from a previous researcher for this family, I have no documentation.

“Barnardos reported that the children's father was a blackguard”, drunkard and destitute" and had deserted the children”.

Yosser
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: Sandymc47 on Thursday 17 November 11 21:22 GMT (UK)
Hi there

I noticed someone thought he might have died in the First World war.
I was thinking he was a little old to go but my son said not unless he
was a Officer.

There is a Officer who died in 1915
Robert B. Herbert, Capt,  unit - London R T F 1915   vol 0.2 page 439

Shame about the children, hope they found a good life in Canada.

regards Sandymc 
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: yosser on Thursday 17 November 11 21:45 GMT (UK)
Sandymc47

Thanks for the input.
I checked out your response and found out it that it was a Captain Robert Bingley Herbert.
I realize that his wife said that she was a widow in the 1911 census, which could have been wishful thinking.

Yosser
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: suzard on Thursday 17 November 11 23:37 GMT (UK)
1891 Robert is in edmonton -lodger occ Outfitter - p.o.b. Gloucester

Suz
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: suzard on Friday 18 November 11 00:32 GMT (UK)
t mo and Suzard


One brother was James Boulbee 1863 died in Norwich in 1903.

This is a quote from a previous researcher for this family, I have no documentation.


Yosser

His death reg is James Boucher Herbert age 39 when he died

Suz
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: t mo on Friday 18 November 11 09:02 GMT (UK)
hi all
in reply to sandymc  regarding home children in canada , unfortunately not all did find life good over there some were used as no better than slaves to the families they were sent to ,abuse was also an issue at times some ran away to escape the trap they were in ,so it could be said it was sometimes out of the frying pan into the fire , there is a good book on the whole episode called NEW LIVES FOR OLD  it,s well worth a read believe me , but as you say let,s hope that at least some found a better and happier life god bless them
best wishes
trevor
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: Valda on Friday 18 November 11 09:50 GMT (UK)
Hi

There are two Robert B Herbert death registrations (presuming his death was registered in his full name which it might not have been) with a birth year circa 1867.


Robert B Herbert
March 1938    
Hull    Yorkshire East Riding
aged 70      

Robert B Herbert
Dec 1940    
Essex South Western Essex
aged 72

The first from census information is probably the death of this man from his birth registration.

Births Jun 1867 
Herbert    Robert Bower       
York    9d   41

There doesn't appear to be any other Robert B Herbert birth registrations in that decade in the domestic GRO index which might fit the second man's death.



Regards

Valda

Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: yosser on Friday 18 November 11 16:27 GMT (UK)
Valda

Thank you for your response to my query.

The Dec 1940 Essex SW death for Robert Boucher Herbert is the correct one.

Yosser
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: Annette7 on Saturday 19 November 11 00:24 GMT (UK)
Hi there

Having been looking into this family in an effort to find Robert's birth and any early census records.   Whilst no success there, I have discovered something and this would refute that John Boultbee Herbert and Sarah Pimble are his parents.

John Boultbee Herbert died in 1863, 2 years after his marriage.  He was buried 21/3/1863 aged 32 at Goodrich, Ross, Herefordshire.

'Your' John Herbert - Sgt. Major - according to his service records and 1881/1891/1901 Census was born Chepstow, Monmouthshire circa 1841 - his wife Sarah is shown as bc.1833-37 Blaisdon, Gloucestershire.   There were Boucher's in Blaisdon and I suspect that wife Sarah's maiden name was probably Boucher.   Unless Sarah had been married previously I cannot find an obvious marriage for them nor births for sons James and Robert under Herbert or Boucher.

Certainly though, John Boultbee Herbert was not Robert's father.

Annette       
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: yosser on Saturday 19 November 11 14:02 GMT (UK)
Annette

Your right, John Boultbee Herbert was not Robert’s father.

If this was an ancestor of my own family I would try to obtain a birth certificate for Robert, seeing it’s a side lineage I won’t bother.

Thanks for all your input.

Yosser
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: yosser on Saturday 19 November 11 16:29 GMT (UK)
Annette

I have just found this from a previous researcher. I thought you might be interested in seeing you have done so much work.

Apparently they obtained a copy of Robert Boucher Herbert’s marriage license, 6 June 1892, which gives his father as John Herbert, Sergeant Major.
One of the witnesses was his brother, James Boucher Herbert. He was married in 1887

Yosser
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: suzard on Saturday 19 November 11 17:24 GMT (UK)
Annette

I have just found this from a previous researcher. I thought you might be interested in seeing you have done so much work.

Apparently they obtained a copy of Robert Boucher Herbert’s marriage license, 6 June 1892, which gives his father as John Herbert, Sergeant Major.
One of the witnesses was his brother, James Boucher Herbert. He was married in 1887

Yosser


I posted full details of Robert Boucher's marriage -see reply#2

Did you miss my post????

Suz
Title: Re: Robert Herbert 1901-1911
Post by: yosser on Saturday 19 November 11 19:56 GMT (UK)
Suzard

Thank you.

I did read your post and then I forgot the details when I replied to Annette.
I’m sure you have seen what I have posted so I will say no more.

Yosser