RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: karrienz on Saturday 12 November 11 01:43 GMT (UK)
-
Hi, would much appreciate any help with my query:
My Gt Gt Grandfather, [William] Richard Richmond married a young lady by the name of Agnes McArthur - age 20 on 21 Dec 1863 at St John’s Church, Invercargill.
I have no further information about Agnes McArthur.
Richard and Agnes Richmond had 3 daughters; Susan Agnes, Rhoda Rebecca, Isabella Jane and Nina Elizabeth and one son, William Richard. Looking at the girls names I thought at least one of them would be named for Agnes’ mother and possibly a couple of her sisters.
Agnes died in January 1873 (age 31) and is buried in the Invercargill cemetery with her daughter Rhoda and husband William Richmond.
I also found:
the burial in 1879 of Isabella McArthur in the Invercargill cemetery with a daughter Marion Hume McArthur buried in 1862 and husband Duncan buried in 1888.
[Paperspast has a lot about a Duncan McArthur that was immigration officer in Invercargill and was ‘late of Oban’]
I found Duncan McArthur’s arrival at Bluff, with wife and 4 girls and 3 boys on the ship “ Melbourne” on paperspast website - Otago Witness, 26 January 1861
I can find Agnes McArthur in the Scottish census’ for 1851 but none appear to be with Duncan and Isabella.
Any hints on how to go about finding more about Agnes would be much appreciated; I don’t have a middle name or initial. She made her ‘mark’ on the marriage register - in all probability I don’t think Duncan’s children would be unable to write their names, him being of a sound community standing and an immigration officer. I’ve tried to ‘nut’ it out for some time. I don’t know if she was born in New Zealand or not.
-
Any hints on how to go about finding more about Agnes would be much appreciated; I don’t have a middle name or initial. She made her ‘mark’ on the marriage register -
Is this the marriage register at the church..or do you mean the certificate from NZ BMD
Just If it is the certificate, then it would pay to check with the church records.
Intention to mArry..would indicate time in region?NZ
Death certificate..for length of time in NZ
BYe
althea
-
Hi Althea
I have a copy of the marriage register entry which is not a certificate in itself - I hadn't thought to find out if there were any other church records. I'll look into it. Unfortunately Agnes died before the death registrations included the extra detail of 'how long in NZ' - but maybe also there is a church record with more detail. Although she was buried in the Invercargill cemetary, I guess there might have been a funeral service recorded; maybe not Anglican.
Thanks.
-
Karrienz .. Good Morning from Invercargill
Another longshot try the Archives Section of the Invercargill Public Library. Have been most helpful to myself in the past.
If you require anything else by way of searching newspapers etc down here please let me know and only to willing to assist.
Have a good day
Alex G :)
-
Good morning to you Alex - lovely fine morning it is too after a rainy Canterbury holiday weekend in Christchurch.
Thank you for your reply; yes, I think it would be best if I got in touch with someone 'down there' - I've had William and Agnes 'sitting' for some 10 years now (my family history attention elsewhere for sometime in the UK and up in North Island). I used to go to the town library here a lot...wonderful resources.
Agnes is a bit of a mystery...I thought it very sad that she lived such a brief life.
Hadn't thought of the Invercargill Library. Will do. I have a lot of family history from the area; Riverton, Otautau etc too. I've enjoyed many years learning about the early years of Southland as whole. All very interesting.
Alex, do you know if there might have been a 'local' newsheet or paper from the Invercargill area in the 1880/90's that might mention the McArthur's/Richmond's - I've trolled through paperspast and it would seem the Southland Times and Otago dailies were very 'up' on court news and political current events and I've found a few snippets. The Richmond children went to North Public School in late 1870's and received prizes etc...my gt grandmother, Susan, was a clever wee thing. The family lived in the Gladstone area...and Richard died in Duke Street.
Alex I'd appreciate any assistance you might have time for; not urgent but if you think of it whilst you are looking up other things, would be most welcome.
regards
Karen
-
Hi Karen,
Agnes is buried in St Johns Cemetery in Invercargill
http://www.icc.govt.nz/ServicesA-Z/Cemeteries/CemeterySearch.aspx?CER_Surname=RICHMOND&36629
It may be worth emailing them to see if they have any more info
Cheers Janette
-
Karen
Yes there is some other papers other then the Southland Times in the Invercargill Library. Will check for you when next in there.
Can also have a look at the St Johns cemetery as noty to far from me and locate/photograph the gravesite site for Agnes.
An after thought the Southland Museum in Invercargill have a rather large photographic archive in addition to other records and would be worth an inquiry.
Cheers
Alex G
-
Thanks for that Janette; yes I see that detail now; buried with her husband and daughter - hadn't noticed the St Johns. Rhoda, or Rebecca, as she seems to have been known at school, was a clever wee girl - I found a newspaper article about her school prize giving and she did well in a lot of subjects.
regards Karen
-
Thanks Alex, would be much appreciated.
Have a lovely Sunday.
Karen
-
Hi Karen,
I was reading your topic and thought you might like Agnes and Richard's Intention to Marry Notice:
Intention to Marry Notice. Archives NZ Ref: BDM 20/8 1863 Invercargill p.428/147.
Dated 21 December: Richard RICHMOND, bachelor, a Sawyer aged 26 years living at North Road, Invercargill, length of residence 2 years, intends to marry Agnes MCARTHUR, spinster, a Servant aged 20 years living at North Road, Invercargill, length of residence 10 months, at the English Church, Invercargill. Minister: W.P. FARMER.
Spades
-
Dear Spades - how kind of you to post that info for me - I don't know when I was going to get around to making enquiries about the other possible church records - pobably later this year - and wasn't sure where to begin looking - you've helped enormously - the dates of residence gives me so much to go on with searching passenger lists etc (I've spent a lot of time on that search online too) Thank you again for your help. If you could keep this topic 'open' for awhile longer would be great too.
I also want to say thank you on this topic to Alex G who kindly sent photographs and other wonderful information from the Southland archives about the Richmond family he researched for me back in November 2011. Since that time, apart from Christmas and New Year, I had a house to find and a job to find and 3 months later we are nearly there. I've moved out of the ruined eastern suburbs of town and almost sorted a full time job. I hope to get back into the family history files again very soon. :)
-
Dear Spades
I know this topic has been completed, and for some time now, but I'm wondering if you can advise me. I am currently looking at another marriage for a member of the same family and when I was on the Archives NZ site researching about "Intention to Marry Notices" and where to locate them, the information states:
- place of residence at time of notice and length of residence in registration district -
http://archives.govt.nz/research/guides/personal-identity
as one of the bullet points. What I am wondering is, for the Intention to Marry Notice details you gave me for Agnes and Richard Richmond in 1873 where her residence is 10 months and his is 2 years, should I be looking at just the time they were in Invercargill or the length of time they were in NZ? If it's the former (district only) then I will broaden my search for Agnes arrival in NZ from Mar 1/4 1863 which is what I've been concentrating on. Any comments much appreciated.
regards
Karrienz
-
Hi Karrienz,
Certainly :)
'Length of residence' commonly meant how long an individual had been at the address provided, in the case of both Richard and Agnes, North Road, Invercargill (or just Invercargill).
They could certainly have arrived years earlier, and not necessarily at Bluff either. You should certainly consider Port Chalmers.
Don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions. ;D
Spades
Addendum: I will move your topic back to the New Zealand Board in the hope that others might be able to help advance your search.
-
Hi again,
I can't see a New Zealand birth for Agnes, however there is no wildcard search function so this must remain a possibility.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
She doesn't seem to have arrived in NZ on any vessels that travelled via Australian ports.
Nor could I see any obvious choices on FamilySearch's Immigration to NZ lists, but don't take my word for it.
https://familysearch.org/search
I know your search is focused on Agnes MCARTHUR, but have you seen the articles on Papers Past relating to William Richard RICHMOND, drunk and disorderly in 1889 and sentenced in 1891 to two years imprisonment for theft?
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
-
Hmmm, I don't know if you have Agnes' 1873 death certificate but it's unlikely to help a great deal as parents weren't listed until 1876.
See A Guide to Information contained in NZ BDM certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=259108.0
Have you tried local family history societies and museums?
Spades
-
:) Thanks Spades - much appreciated. I really am a goose as I thought the residence part meant length of time being in NZ! I will broaden my search more...although I haven't restricted the search to just 1863 for Agnes. Richard Richmond may have come further down south from the Otago goldfields there's a few mentions of the names on paperspast. I suspect he may have come over from Victoria in 1858 or 59.
The paperspast references to William Richard Richmond are for their son...unfortunate chappy. I have searched famsearch.org shipping...I have had some research done on my behalf at Southland museum but no results. I hadn't been looking at this family for awhile and just gotten back to it recently. Also lately was contacted by a 'cousin' in the family and she and I have been swapping titbits about Agnes and Richard's children...which is nice to finally have a research buddy to 'brainstorm' with.
regards karrienz