RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: Myfanwy 65 on Friday 11 November 11 18:49 GMT (UK)
-
I would really appreciate some help with this !!!!!!!!!!
1911 census William Watts age 39 ( birth c 1872 )Tredegar mon living 12 Plummers Row Married 17 years marriage 9th july 1894 got cert
Fathers name on cert Henry Watts coal miner
1901 census William Watts age 30 birth 1871 living 8 Plummers row
1891 census William Watts age 18 ( c1873 ) living Aberdare mon with William & Margaretta Morgan
I think this is him as a Margaret Morgan was a witness at wedding in 1894
All above census are definitely him as proved by the children including my Grandmother Charlotte Watts born 1900 I know all her sisters and brothers names are correct as well.
1881 census
This is where I get stuck the only family I can come up with on this census is that seems to fit is:-
James WILLIAMS
Head M Male 30 Llanwenarth, Monmouth, England Coal Miner
Ruth WILLIAMS
Wife M Female 32 Trevethin, Monmouth, England
Ann WILLIAMS
Daur Female 14 Aberystruth, Monmouth, England Scholar
Thomas WATTS
Son Male 11 Mynyddislwyn, Monmouth, England Scholar
William H. WATTS
Son Male 9 Aberystruth, Monmouth, England Scholar
Sarah WATTS
Daur Female 8 Aberystruth, Monmouth, England Scholar
George WATTS
Son Male 7 Aberystruth, Monmouth, England Scholar
Ada WATTS
Daur Female 5 Aberystruth, Monmouth, England Scholar
Now back to 1901 census they had a visiting Williams Family could be coincidence as not uncommon name in Wales
I checked with registry office and they confirmed that William < sarah and George all had same parents can’t find Thomas and didn’t confirm Ada
I then got this Williams birth cert
William Henry watts 12th June 1872 born West side Cwmtillery sub dist Aberystruth dist Bedwellty father William Watts mother Ruth Watts formally FRANKS fathers occ coal miner
Working on the assumption it was Ruth’s second marriage I searched for the marriage and drew a blank for Ruth Franks and HENRY Watts which my William said was his fathers name.
I found marriage for James Williams & Ruth Franks in 1880 q4 Reg Pontyprdd
All in right area.
Next I looked for deaths Between 1871-1881
William Watts found age 40 Q4 Bedwellty 1879
And Henry Watts age 30 Q3 Newport 1879
Do I assume Ruth never married William and That as My William was so young when his father died that he got his name wrong or am |I missing something???
Now my problem is where do I go next !!!!!!!!!!!!
Many thanks for reading all this
-
Did you look at 1871 - Ruth Franks age 22 is a servant of a Jenkins family, but I think she may be their daughter in law, Ann Franks age 5, and young Thomas Franks are with her. I think Ruth Thomas married John Jenkins 1865 Brecon. And late in 1871 in Newport a William Watts married a Ruth Frances? So easy for Frances to become Franks with the handwriting of the day. So she was a widow possibly for the second time when she married James Williams 1880. Hope this leads you somewhere. Fred
-
Hi Fred, many thanks for your reply. I did not look at 1871 for a Ruth Franks I assumed maybe wrongly that she would have been Watts by then as she already had Thomas and that Franks was her maiden name. This is definately a possibility. I shall look further. ;)
I did find the marriage between William Watts and Ruth Frances and thought the same as you especially as she signed with a cross on Williams birth cert.
I still am not sure I have the right William Watts born 1872 ( my gt grandfather ) though as where does Henry Watts come into this as William said that was fathers name on his marriage cert !!!!
It is always a problem when children are between census' proving their parents, out of 4 gt grandparents I can't find two of them !!!! Anybody want to swap families ;D
-
Hi - I recently had a look for a friends family and hardly one of them used the name they were registered with at birth. William Henry was Henry William, and with a surname like Watkins I set off following the wrong family. Some adopted middle names as first names, and some used first names when married that weren't official even though I believe they were supposed to produce birth certificates? In census they had an initial for a middle name but they were registered with just one first name. There are times when you have to make guesses and hope you later validate the information, and it is always good to have somebody else look because you can keep missing things.
My granfather Harry is listed as Mary, nobody seems to have questioned that he is marrying Emily in 1902, and my grandfathers sister seems to have given up on her birth name of Minnie and called herself Matilda when she married, I had to buy the certificate to prove it was her because the 1911 census wasn't out at the time. Sometimes it's just click click and there they are in every census, but not very often.
-
Did you look at 1871 - Ruth Franks age 22 is a servant of a Jenkins family, but I think she may be their daughter in law, Ann Franks age 5, and young Thomas Franks are with her. I think Ruth Thomas married John Jenkins 1865 Brecon. And late in 1871 in Newport a William Watts married a Ruth Frances? So easy for Frances to become Franks with the handwriting of the day. So she was a widow possibly for the second time when she married James Williams 1880. Hope this leads you somewhere. Fred
I looked at the census and agree this could be her. I found a death for ann JENKINS age 7 in Bedwellty so that could account for her not being on the 1881 census.
Now I am confused as to where the marriage of Ruth THOMAS and JOHN Jenkins comes into this. Am I missing something ? ???
I think my my 2xgt grandmother had a lot of children out of wedlock :-\
I really appreciate your help with this
Val :)
-
It is a lot of info to take in. But when I saw Ruth Franks with children already I wondered if she had married before, in 1871 she is with a Jenkins family and it doesn't say daughter. So I entered a search for a marriage on Freebmd in Monmouthshire. Jenkins marrying a girl named Ruth and that marriage came up. I didn't check for a death of John Jenkins?
-
Ruth Franks is enumerated as unmarried in 1871. Also, she married James as Franks, so it looks like she didn't marry Mr Watts. I'd say that Ruth would be more likely to get his name right when registering the births of the children.
Do you have the marriage cert for Ruth & James? That would confirm her maiden name. This is probably her birth reg
Ruth Franks march qtr 1849 Pontypool vol 26 pg 154
1861 Snatchwood, nr Abersychan RG9/4008 folio 27 pg 19
William Franks head widower 50 collier b. Somerset, Pensford
Ruth dau 13 b. Abersychan
Eliza dau 7 b. Abersychan
Charlotte dau 2 b. Abersychan
possible death for mother
Sarah Franks dec qtr 1860 Pontypool vol 11a pg 77
Her burial is transcribed here, address given as Snatchwood
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/trevethinprt.htm
Possible marriage for William & Sarah in 1834 as well
-
Seems like my 2xgt grandmother was " a bit of a girl " :-[ I will check out these possibilities and keep you informed of progress. ::)
Many Many thanks both of you for your efforts. ;D It always helps when someone else confirms your suspicions.
Watch this space as they say :-*
Val