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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Leicestershire Lookup Requests => Leicestershire => England => Completed Leicestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Framesmiths1816 on Monday 07 November 11 15:43 GMT (UK)

Title: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810 - No longer available
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Monday 07 November 11 15:43 GMT (UK)
I am probably telling many of you something you already know but I recently came across a database that holds details on the taxes paid by masters on the fees received from their apprentices from 1700 to 1810. I think it covers the whole country and certainly has many Leicestershire ones in it. I was able to find quite a few members of my family with additional information such as "where from", "son of" and sometimes "deceased" for father's status.

I can do some lookups if anyone is interested.

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: chfl on Wednesday 09 November 11 07:13 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I have a brief note from these records of Joseph Tomlinson 19 Aug 1780, am interested in his master Samuel Gilbert so anymore info on this record at all  ?
Also any records of Fletchers,  in Worthington, Breedon areas of Leicestershire?

Chris
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: HeatherLynne on Wednesday 09 November 11 08:00 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the offer FS  :)  Can you find any 'Rassell's at all please?  I have Journeymen Butchers and Bakers of that name in the family.  Also many plasterers named Edden if you could check that please. 

Heather
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Wednesday 09 November 11 10:38 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I have a brief note from these records of Joseph Tomlinson 19 Aug 1780, am interested in his master Samuel Gilbert so anymore info on this record at all  ?
Also any records of Fletchers,  in Worthington, Breedon areas of Leicestershire?

Chris

Hi Chris,
There is a also these
Feb 10th 1761 Sam.l Gilbert of Osgathorp Leic.r Cordwainer - Sam.l Massey 29th Dec. 1760
Jan 14th 1755 Sam. Gilbert of Osgathorp Leicester Cordw.r - Mathias Hope 13th Jan 1755

I can't find any Fletchers in the Worthington/Breedon on the Hill areas. I have looked for a good few villages close by. The closest is this one

9th June 1712 Jos. Fletcher of Ashby Delazouche in Cou'y Leice~shire Do - Tho. son of Tho. Smith late of Hapenhill in Cou.y Derby yeo.n

Do = ditto and looks to be Framework Knitter

Hope this is useful to you

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Wednesday 09 November 11 11:29 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the offer FS  :)  Can you find any 'Rassell's at all please?  I have Journeymen Butchers and Bakers of that name in the family.  Also many plasterers named Edden if you could check that please. 

Heather

Hi Heather,

I am sorry to say there are no Rassell's I can find for Leicestershire. There are some Rossell's and some other name variations like Rushall and Russell and none of these are Butchers or Bakers. The only Rassell's I can find are in Surrey, Hampshire and Kent and they are related to woodcraft, Carpteners, Joiners, Shipwrights.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful.

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Wednesday 09 November 11 11:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Heather,

No Edden's or close variants in Leicestershire that I can see. I am not sure if Plastering trade is not in this DB. I have also been looking for my own family who where plasterers from Staffordshire moving to Leicester and I can find any plasterers in the database. Is there a special name for this trade that I might not be aware of?

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: HeatherLynne on Wednesday 09 November 11 13:34 GMT (UK)
Hi FS

Thanks for your replies  :)  I'd be interested in the Rassell records from Hampshire please.  Some of the family lived in Portsea, Fawley, South Hayling over the years so any information might be connected.

As for Plasterers, they were also called Plaisterers - see this link:

http://www.plaistererslivery.co.uk/

and I'd like to think that mine were craftsmen making beautiful plaster decorations rather than just slapping on a flat skim coat!  (however there's no reason to think they were doing the fancy stuff :( )

You might find this interesting too:  http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/plaster/lime-plaster.htm

The furthest back I've traced my plasterers so far is around 1850 in Marylebone/St Pancras London and the trade was passed down the generations.

Heather
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Wednesday 09 November 11 13:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Heather

I will have another look for the Rassells. Thanks for the additional information. Please note the info is 1700 to 1811 so your 1850's people will not be in it.

My own family's Plasterers learnt their trade working in the Staffordshire Potteries where they made plaster moulds for raised decoration, the same process for making fancy plaster decoration for ceilings and walls. This was around 1800. I mention this because it might be a connection you hadn't thought of yet.

FS

Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: HeatherLynne on Wednesday 09 November 11 14:03 GMT (UK)
Thank you FS.  The earliest Rassells I have are in Hampshire around 1750 so that might fit.  (If the database is searchable online then by all means send me a link and I'll do it myself  :) ).

That's interesting about your plasterers and something I'd not thought of.  Did your plasterers live to old age?  Mine seem to have made it to late 70s/early 80s in most cases - I was surprised as I thought the dusty nature of their work might have lead to lung disease and an early demise but it seems not.

Heather
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Wednesday 09 November 11 14:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Heather,

These are all the Rassell entries I can find.

Dec. 16th 1717 John Baigont of Midhurst Sussex ShovelTreeMak.r - Rob.t son of  Wm Rassell Dece'd 30th Sept 1717

26th June 1802 Rich'd Binsted Havant Co of Hamps. Rich'd Rassell

6th June 1786 Tho' Cobden & Geo. Cooper; Chichester Co of Sussex Carpenters - Rob.t Rassell

Thursday Aug.t 4th 1743 Will. Lymbery of Chatham in Kent Shipwright - John son of Geo. Rassell of Rochester.

Hope this is useful

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Wednesday 09 November 11 14:51 GMT (UK)
Thank you FS.  The earliest Rassells I have are in Hampshire around 1750 so that might fit.  (If the database is searchable online then by all means send me a link and I'll do it myself  :) ).

That's interesting about your plasterers and something I'd not thought of.  Did your plasterers live to old age?  Mine seem to have made it to late 70s/early 80s in most cases - I was surprised as I thought the dusty nature of their work might have lead to lung disease and an early demise but it seems not.

Heather

They seem to live to early / mid 70's. but they had hard lives and very big families (15 and 13 children in two generations). I suspect from my own experience of DIY that puttung plaster up is not such a dusty occupation whereas pulling it down or sanding it is and these would have been labourer's jobs. I my families case I suspect the trade was passed father to son(s) without a formal apprenticeship.

FS

PS - see previous post for Rassells
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: HeatherLynne on Wednesday 09 November 11 15:16 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for your searches FS, will check this out later when I have a chance.

As for the dustiness or otherwise of plastering, I suppose you're right.  My plasterers didn't have quite such large families although they did tend to have 2 or 3 wives each  :o 

Good luck with your research and thanks for your help
Heather
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Wednesday 09 November 11 18:39 GMT (UK)
Opps, sorry Heather I copied out the 1802 incorrectly. It should be

26th June 1802 Rich'd Binsted Havant Co of Hamps Carpenter. Rich'd Rassell

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: chfl on Saturday 12 November 11 07:40 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your earlier reply on Samuel Gilbert, cordwainer in Osgathorpe was interesting as this profession was continued by his grandson, my great grandfather
Are there any records of Kings in Leicestershire, and also Butlers  (possibly Blacksmiths) in Nottinghamshire/

Chris
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Monday 14 November 11 20:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your earlier reply on Samuel Gilbert, cordwainer in Osgathorpe was interesting as this profession was continued by his grandson, my great grandfather
Are there any records of Kings in Leicestershire, and also Butlers  (possibly Blacksmiths) in Nottinghamshire/

Chris

Hi Chris,

King Leicestershire - There are approx' 100 entries. Any more information to narrow it down a bit?

Butler Nottinghamshire
1711 Sept' 4th Rob.t Butler of the town and cou.y of Notts Blacksmith - Tho.s son of W.m Harvey of the town and cou.y of Notts Felmonger

This is the only Blacksmith entry. Others are Cordwainers, Grocers, Bakers and Ropers.

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: chfl on Wednesday 16 November 11 19:27 GMT (UK)
Hello again,

I am looking for Kings from Osgathorpe and also from Twycross both in leicestershire

Chris
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Friday 18 November 11 09:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Chris,

Twycross - the only one I can see is this one
Monday Jan' 10th 1736 Will King of Twicross in Leicester butcher - Tho.s son of Tho.s Hodgkins of Do ( I think Do (ditto) = Twycross but it isn't clear)

There are none for Osgathorp I can find. The closest are Loughborough Hinckley, Long Whatton and Stoke Golding.

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Winterbloom21 on Friday 18 November 11 09:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Framesmith - I am looking for a George Serjeant who was a cabinetmaker in St. Pancras London (or anywhere in the East End of London) and also a George Serjeant who was a watchmaker (spellings vary horribly).    Many thanks for your offer. S
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Friday 18 November 11 10:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Winterbloom,

I cannot see any obvious entries. No cabinet makers or watch makers, although they might be guilds so Metropolitan Archives might be another route. In the greater London area there is a Pewterer, a Tallow Chandler, a baker and one that looks like a Silk Throwsler?

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Winterbloom21 on Friday 18 November 11 12:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks FS.  It was a long shot with a bit of guesswork thrown in.     I'm trying to match up an 1819 birth with a 1790s potential father and just wondered if the father would have had the same occupation as the son, which I know to be cabinetmaker.     I found one in 1791 who was a watchmaker and one in 1792 who didn't say what he was.     I will get down to the Met Archives one day and have a look there.  Thanks again.  Siobhan
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Gert on Friday 25 November 11 01:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Framesmith,

Thank you for the offer, i have 2 that  i think were born to late for what you have, but as they are both brick walls, here goes,

John Gough born Leicester abt 1802 was a tailor.

John Spencer born Crich Derbyshire abt 1803 was a corn miller in Matlock.

Any help appreciated

Gert
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Friday 25 November 11 16:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Gert,

The only 2 Goughs are both in Shropshire (bricklayer and currier) and as you say, the dates make it unlikley they will be in the list. Given most apprenticeships started at about 14 although even if they started at 10 they would still missed out.

There is a John Spencer as follows who could be connected maybe?
8th July 1805 John Spencer (Master)  of ( Brapington ?) County of Derbyshire Blacksmith - Henry Whatson.
The record is also dated 1803 and on is the date of the start and the other is the date the duty was paid.

Guess this isn;t very helpful, sorry.

FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Gert on Friday 25 November 11 23:22 GMT (UK)
Thank you for looking Framesmith.

Gert
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: ourbill on Thursday 19 January 12 00:56 GMT (UK)
I hope you are still doing the kind business in helping us find things which would otherwise cost the earth.

Would you kindly have a look if any of the below are mentioned.

They were both tailors, and I know from the censuses that John was a Master till his death in 1877.

George Emerson
Christened: 30 July 1769 St Margaret, Leicester.
John Emerson
Born: 29 Nov 1791
Christened: 11 Dec 1791 All Saints, Leicester.


Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Thursday 19 January 12 18:37 GMT (UK)
Hi ourbill,

There is one possible entry for Leicestershire but not for  either of the two names given.

Tho.s Emerson - Sheepshed Co. of Leicester Taylor - Jn.o Smith

Dated payment 27th Nov 1795. Could Thomas Emerson (master Tailor) be a brother of George?

There is this one as well but Emerson seems to be a rare name in this spelling at least.

John Sneath of Birmingham Taylor - Geo. son of rob:t Emerson 16th June 1730 (payment dated 28th Sept 1731

I cannot find any Tailors in the east midlands spelt Emmerson although there are many other  trades.

ATB - FS
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810
Post by: ourbill on Friday 20 January 12 17:45 GMT (UK)
Framesmiths1816

Many thanks for your reply.
It seems that none fit. Could you possibly try Lincoln and Rutland for George.
May I ask what you are  using?

I've been toying with sending for the Merchant Taylors' Company Membership Index 1530-1928 from Docklands Ancestors but at £31, I decided to wait till I found somebody who has used it so they can give me a report before I bought it.
Title: Re: Apprentices and masters 1700 to 1810 - Nolonger available
Post by: Framesmiths1816 on Saturday 04 February 12 10:15 GMT (UK)
I am sorry to write that I nolonger have access to the information that enabled me to do these searches.

Sorry folkes :(