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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: thelly on Saturday 05 November 11 05:49 GMT (UK)
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Good afternoon,
I have a mystery that whichever way I turn I can't solve, so do hope someone can help.
My g-g-grandmother, Catherine Hinchey was born in 1834 in Manchester, Lancashire, UK, her parents were Lurran Hinchey (not sure if Lurran is a nickname for Laurence) b1811 in Cork Ireland, her mother, Mary Fitzgibbons was b1816 in Cork Ireland, they married at Cathedral Manchester UK on 22 May 1834, and had four children, Catherine b1834, John b1836, James b1838 and William b1841, all in Manchester, the family appears in the 1841 census, and then it is as though they have completely disappeared except Catherine.
The name Catherine Hinchey appears on the passenger list as a free settler on the Royal Saxon into Botany Bay Sydney on 29 June 1844, but she would have only been 10 in 1844.
Catherine's name appears again when she married Laurence Hickey on 9 April 1855 in Richmond Tasmania, they had 7 children, and lived in the Huon Valley, where they had one of the biggest apple orchards in Tasmania.
Catherine died on the 18 August 1913 at Honeywood Tasmania.
Sorry this is so drawn out, I and others have tried many avenues but come up with nothing as to the whereabouts of the rest of Catherine"s :) family, do hope someone can help me with this mystery.
Many thanks,
Thelly
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So, are you saying the Catherine who married in 1855 is definitely your relative. Do you have the marriage and death certs, if so do they give any indication of parents.
I looked at the passenger list you mentioned and next to Catherines name it says engaged and two other words I can't make out. Do you know what they are?
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Hi,
Yes, Catherine is my ancestor, I haven't seen the passenger list, other family members have told me, I think it was another Catherine Hinchey, as it was a fairly common name.
Thelly
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Trying a name variation as in HINCHY this Catherine was born c1823. :'(
Maybe they went back to Ireland. :-\
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Hi
Do you have the marriage certificate of Catherine b 1834 to confirm her parents
Margp
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hi all i,ve looked in FindMyPast doing an overall search for each of the children and apart from the 1841 cen the only other thing that shows up is for births .
catherine oct-dec 1838 manchester vol 20 p 524
john july - sep 1843 " vol 20 p 552
james jan-march 1839 " vol 20 p 572
william apr - june 1841 " vol 20 p 582
william jul - sep 1845 " vol xx p 697
now i appreciate these may not be the children were looking for but they are the nearest to the census years and as they would have been rounded down by 5 year or so it should be worth looking closer at them as you can see there are 2 williams within 5 years of each other which one is the one we need i can only guess would be the second one if the census years are out by 5 years ? .
i,ve also looked in passenger list records but as they don,t start till 1890 as you can guess found nothing i also did a check in passport records which start in 1851 but again found nothing for any hincheys of any form of spelling the nearest was hinchcliffe which even allowing for phonetics in speech and that a lot of folk has trouble reading and writing back then i feel is to way off the mark for us .
regards
trevor
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Hi
I have looked at the ships record that you mentioned for 29 June 1844 Royal Saxon the Catherine Hinchley on this record is aged 20???
Margp
Edit Catherine is traveling with Mary Hickey aged 22 it also states that Catherine was born in Lemerick???
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I have found the marriage record for Catherine, if this is definitely her on the Royal Saxon she would have been b 1823 and her age would have been 10 years out on the marriage record
She married Laurence Hickey b 1823 it gives Catherine b 1833
I think that to confirm that you on the right track with this, you need a copy of the marriage certificate
Margp
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Hi MargP, Sue and Trevor,
Thanks for your help, but my ancestor was born in 1833/34, the Hickey family have done a lot of research, but couldn't find the family after the 1841 census in Manchester. I have sent a query to the Tasmanian Archives to see if I can get a copy of their marriage cetificate, I have looked on Ancestry and Genes Reunited and found nothing.
Laurence was born in Abington, Limerick Ireland, not Catherine.
I didn't realise that there was a 2nd William, perhaps the first boy died.
Regards,
Thelly
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Hi Thelly
So the record for Catherine on the Royal Saxon is not your Catherine, she is too old, so you need to look for another Catherine Hinchey coming to Tasmania, let us know how you get on with the marriage certificate, if you send me your e-mail details via a PM I will send you the record of Catherine on the Royal Saxon and you can put this to other family members who have been researching Catherine
Margp
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Hi MargP,
I know it is very confusing, some researchers here have suggested that her father was sent to Australia a a convict, and the family followed, but her mother and brothers would show up somewhere.
Thanks again,
Thelly
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Hi Thelly
My gut feeling on this,is that the Royal Saxon is the correct record for Catherine, and that you may have the wrong parents for her, she is traveling with a Mary Hickey and she is married Laurence Hickey, did he have a sister Mary,Catherine DOB on the marriage could have been mistranscribed or she lied about her age?
Margp
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Hi MargP,
You could be right, although I believe the information about Catherine came from family records, and I just presumed they were correct, because the family members who researched the Hincheys were grandchildren or nieces and nephews, and I am only a g-g-grandchild.
Laurence did have a sister Mary, and two brothers Daniel and Patrick, their parents were Laurence and Bridget, I don't know Bridget's maiden name.
Laurence was in the British Army Royal Lincolnshire Regiment, he was aged 20 years when he was charged with mutiny against his superior, Colour Sgt Richard Gwydr, Laurence while drunk fired a musket at him, he was tried and convicted at Fort William, Calcutta, India, and transported to Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania) as a guest of His Majesty, Laurence never returned to Ireland or England.
Perhaps as you suggested Catherine came from Ireland, and there was a reason her age was out by 10 years, the inscription on her headstone gives her name and 1833-1913. If you are correct how do I go about finding the exact information about her?
Regards,
Thelly
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hi all
my 2 ha,peth on this , ;D canyou ask who ever gave you this info if the dates in question are/have been checked as definitive proof to be correct only like i sais earlier woth the 1841 cen is notorious for inaccuracies especially with the buisiness of rounding down birth years in which case the year date i gave for catherine of 1838 rounded down on the census would be 1833 which you say is correct .
unfortunately in all our searches if you look solely on age given they can vary from census to census by as much as 5 years anyway , as i see it they are the only guide we have but not definitive proof of accuracy so allowances have to be made they are only as good as the info people wrote down and i,m sorry to harp on but what we have to remember is that most folk back then could neither read or write so big mistakes with names dates and places being written down wrong is all too common .
sorry to ramble on but it,s what i do best ;D ;D
regards all
trevor
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me again
just reread your reply Thelly and realised i didn,t explain the 2 williams i posted in the birth info i put both down as they were both from manchester and within your time frame so either could be right or as you say perhaps the earliest one died my apologies on not saying earlier and for any confusion caused .
regards
trevor
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Hi Trevor,
Thanks for getting back to me, Catherine was supposed to have come out here on the Royal Saxon in 1844, which would have made her only 10 years old, one of your colleagues, MargP has suggested that Catherine was in fact 20 years of age, and travelled with Mary Hickey, Laurence Hickey's sister, and that Catherine was born in Limerick, Ireland, and maybe the family I have been researching isn't her family at all, I am just so confused, and contacted ancestors of Catherine and Laurence about this information, the information apparently came from the immediate family, and on Catherine's headstone it states that she was born in 1833.
I do agree with you though that old records aren't always accurate, so I guess back to the drawing board.
Regards,
Thelly
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Hi Thelly
I think that the key to this is the marriage certificate, once you have that you should be able to go forward with Catherine, I have seen another family that she could belong too, can you give me a list of all her children and there dates of birth, to see if there are any similarities with the names.
Margp
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Catherine's children were - Patrick 1856-1930, David 1857-1858, Daniel 1859-1877, Mary Honora (my g-grandmother) Catherine 1865-1948, Laurence 1868-1914, Richard 1871-1896.
Regards,
Thelly
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hi both
i,m with margaret as somewhere along the line you need positive proof so if the marriage cert gives you that then at least your in the right ball park ,
margaret good work so far i look forward to the next thrilling instalement , and i,m not being patronising believe me good finds need praise .
regards
trevor
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Catherine's children were - Patrick 1856-1930, David 1857-1858, Daniel 1859-1877, Mary Honora (my g-grandmother) Catherine 1865-1948, Laurence 1868-1914, Richard 1871-1896.
Regards,
Thelly
Sorry Thelly no clue's there with the names, but I have noticed that Catherine's last child was born in 1871, if Catherine was born in 1823 she would have been coming to the end of her child bearing age
Marg
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hi both
i,m with margaret as somewhere along the line you need positive proof so if the marriage cert gives you that then at least your in the right ball park ,
margaret good work so far i look forward to the next thrilling instalement , and i,m not being patronising believe me good finds need praise .
regards
trevor
Thank you Trevor for those kind words, it is much appreciated,but I love a challenge and I am really loving helping Thelly with her quest.
Margp
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Hi Thelly
I don't think you will find out who Catherine's parents were from the marriage, I have just found this information
Marriages
Prior to 1896 particulars recorded were:
•Names of the people being married.
•Date and place of marriage.
•Age at marriage (sometimes only whether "under" or "over" age, i.e. 21).
•Occupation and status (e.g. bachelor and spinster).
•Names of witnesses to the marriage.
Names of parents, and places of birth, of the people being married were not added until 1896.
Where the marriage took place in a church no other information is contained in the church record of the event.
Margp
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hi margp
just a thought on your last posting it,s just possible the witness names may help .
regards
trevor
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Good Morning all
I have just found 2 more records on the Royal Saxon if this is your Catherine her parents were David and Mary both alive.
The other is for Mary Hickey Parents Laurence Hickey Blacksmith and the mother looks like Biddy ?
I will send both these records to you shortly Thelly
I hope your enjoying this Trevor lol
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Good evening to you,
Laurence Hickey's parents and siblings never came to Australia, and he never went back to Ireland.
The people here researching the Hickeys/Hincheys don't believe that Catherine was born in 1823, they still say that her parents were Lurran and Mary.
Thanks,
Thelly
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Hi Thelly I would keep an open mind on this
The 2 records I have just found for the parents,they are not with Catherine and Mary it just giving information about them, who were Mary's parents and her DOB do they tally with this record, as there been any other record found for a Catherine Hinchey coming to Tasmania??
Marg
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Hi Thelly
Look at this link
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-NSW-SYDNEY/2008-01/1200180580
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Laurence did have a sister Mary, and two brothers Daniel and Patrick, their parents were Laurence and Bridget
The other is for Mary Hickey Parents Laurence Hickey Blacksmith and the mother looks like Biddy ?
who were Mary's parents and her DOB do they tally with this record
Biddy is a pet name for Bridget so there does seems to be a connection
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Thank you David
Margp
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Hi Thelly
Does any one in the family have copy of the death certificate for Catherine, it may say on that where she was born, but the information these is only as good as the informants knowledge, you could also check the marriages for the older children, the later the date the more information was given about the parents
Margp
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Hi Thelly
Look at this link
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-NSW-SYDNEY/2008-01/1200180580
Hi Thelly I don't think Catherine b 1823 is your Catherine I have looked at other posts that Kay Steward from this link as done on different sites, and Catherine b 1823 married a James Steward.
Margp
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Hello MargP,
No my Catherine was not born in 1823, I still believe that the family members who researched her years ago are correct, it is mainly what happened to her family, and how she got to Australia, but I will do what you suggested and perhaps find (or try) the death certificate of my g-grandmother, but as you said that would only show what people knew about them at the time.
There is too much information on Ancestry and Genes Reunited from people researching Catherine to ignore the fact as to who her parents and siblings were, it is just that none of us can find anything after the 1841 census.
Regards,
Thelly
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Hi Thelly
The information about the Royal Saxon was this an handed down storey, or was it found by a family member, I can't find any record for them,I am wondering if the went some where else and then went on to Tasmania????
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Hi MargP,
Someone researching the Hincheys was looking at passenger lists from 1841, and found the name Catherine Hinchey, but the age difference was too great.
I will send for a copy of her death certificate, but I'm not sure what would appear from 1913.
Thanks again,
Thelly