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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: pembsgal on Wednesday 12 October 11 08:08 BST (UK)
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Good morning wonderful people
Help needed once again please:)
Am looking for anything of my Great Grandparents on mothers side. My Grandmother was called Magwen Morgan and she was born 13 Jan 1920. Her Dad was called John Morgan and her Mother was Hannah John.
following siblings of Magwen:
brothers Morian, 1911 – 1967
Illtyd - 1913 – 1980
and a sister Ceinwen morgan - 1916 – 1946
I do know they were a St Nicholas family and moved at some point to Tremaenir, Solva. By the time Illtyd married both his parents were dead. ~So they were dead by the time my Grandmother was married in 1942. Illtyd and Eunice farmed Tremaenir until the mid fifties when they moved to Rosepool, Roch. Magwen moved to Milford Haven and married my Grandfather.
The family all seemed to die very young, its a tragedy that noone knows much about them :(
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Does the mother's name of Hannah John come from Magwen's birth certificate? How do you know her first name?
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Q2 1898 John Morgan + Hannah John on the same page, Neath v11a pg1055
Maybe Morian wasn't the first child??
So, are they on the 1901 census together??
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does Morian show up onthe 1911 census ? or was he born after this date ?
when does Illtyd marry ?
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Morian's birth registered - Q3 1911 Haverfordwest 11a 2900
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Only Illtyd/Eunice marriage I can find is 1944??
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Just saw Morians Birth regsitered as Jul qtr 1911 so after the 1911 census however the registation district is given as Haverfordwest which might narrow down JOhn & Hannahs location on the 1911 census
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Only Illtyd/Eunice marriage I can find is 1944??
this is after 1942 which is when Magwen marries
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Hello all :)
Magwen married William Fairbairn 1943
Illtyd Morgan married Eunice Maya Phillips 1944
Parents were already dead by then and I have been assured by my aunt names were John morgan and Hannah John :)
Thanking you all so much for helping me, i really do appreciate it. might be a little slow replying as am at work :)
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Do you have any certificates that give John Morgan's occupation?
Will be very difficult to pick them out on any census without it.
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it might pay to get the certificate of birth for one for of the children probably Magwen seeing as she is your direct line
putting that aside i have done a basic search for Hannah Morgan & John Morgan in the same household in 1911 in Pembrokshire (which covers Haverfordwest)
there are 3 options
MORGAN HANNAH aged 47 thus born circa 1864 Narberth
i am not sure if her age allows her to be having children in 1920
MORGAN HANNAH aged 24 thus born circa 1887 Haverfordwest she is of the right age but not old enough to marry in 1898
MORGAN MARY HANNAH aged 18 thus born circa 1893 Haverfordwest
this is Mary Hannah not Hannah Mary and therefore i dont know if she would be yours but again re the marriage if it is correct she would have been aged 5
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Hi
I just typed up a long winded 'tutorial' of narrowing down the possibilites in 19eleven searches - but now it's out there ;D
John MORGAN 36 (1875) born either Dale Pembrokshire or Pembroke Llanrian
and
Hannah MORGAN 24 (1887) b Robison Pembrokshire
and
Married 1911
(Once years of birth & location are known ;), You can use this census database to get PoB's.
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/search.page/index/census_1911
Cheers
AMBLY
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Working backwards:
1901: Lower Rickeston Mill, Robeston West, Haverford West, Pembrokeshore
RG13 / Piece: 5128 / Folio: 142 / Page: 11
Head: Tobias CODD 43, Corn Miller, b Rickeston
Wife: Jane CODD 53, b Walton West
Son: James CODD 20, unm, Corn Miller Assistant, b -----? Rickeston
Dau: Hannah CODD 14, b Lower?? Rickeston
1891:Broad Haven, Robeston West, Milford, Pembrokeshore
RG12 / Piece: 4534 / Folio 111 / Page 4
Head: Tobias CODD 32, Miller
Wife: Mary CODD 30
James CODD 11
Dau: Sarah CODD 8
Dau: Martha CODD 6
Dau: Hannah CODD 4 (b abt 1887)
All b Rickeston
1881: Rickeston Mill, Robeston West, Milford, Pe,brokeshire
RG11 / Piece: 5416 / Folio: 107/page5
Head: Tobias CODD 65, Corn miller with Land, b St Ishmaels,
Wife: Letitia CODD 61, b Marloes
Son: Tobias CODD 28, marr, Millers son, b Robeston West
Wife: Mary CODD 21, marr, Miller son's wife, b NK
Grandson: James CODD 1, Millers son son, b Robeston West
Looks like Tobias jnr's wife1 Mary died btw 1891 & 1901, and he had remarried to wife2 Jane by 1901.
MARRIAGE:
Haverford West Jun Qtr 1893 Ref: 11a, 1519 and on that same page:
Tobias CODD
Jane JOHN
Bet Jane came to the marriage with some JOHN children in tow! see reply 16
Forward to 1910:
MARRIAGE: FreeBMDJohn MORGAN - Jun Qtr 1910, Haverfordwest, Vol 11a, Page 1_59
The transcriber hasn't worked out the full page nr so John's not linked to his possible bride choices. The scan of the image though, shows clearly his number is page 1859.
If you search FreeBMD for that year & Qtr, district, Volume and full page nr - there we get Hannah CODD, sitting with another bride and just one groom.
So it looks a lot like Hannah married John MORGAN using her step-father's surname - but used her birth surname as the mms on her child's birth record?
Cheers
AMBLY
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that sounds very good Ambly :)
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It does, doesn't it ! ;D
In a world of Johns, Morgans, Johns again - and visons of Thomas', Williams, Evans, Harris etc etc etc - one is rather pleased to find Tobias CODD s' ;D ;D ::)
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Well done Ambly - very impressive!
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Opps though - not sure about the final theory - spot my error, Hannah CODD's mother in 1891 is wife1, Mary....so not wife2 Jane JOHN. ???
Still think the 1910 marriage is probably the right one though?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hmm, 'tis strange that she would use the surname of her father's second wife as her maiden name.
If it was me I would definitely be sending for Magwen's birth certificate!
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some more info:
Gareth was Ceinwens son who died aged 4 in (not sure of the year)
Ceinwen herself died inn 1946/7 aged approx 29 years.
The Father of Ceinwen and Magwen etc (John morgan) died in approx 1942 of lung disease.
Have found out that the Mum Hannah John (Morgan) died in around 1942 as was 'just' alive when Nanny and Gags (Magwen and William) married in 42.
She(Hannah) died of a stomach growth that she went to the doctor too late about
Does any of this help?
J
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Just had long conversation with my aunt - turns out Hannah could be Anna... and she had one sister Ruth.
Hopefully I can trace them now :)
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i think you need Magwen birth certificate as otherwise you are working on could be's
if you can also find the detah registartion whihc i think youhavethis whould give an approximate year of birth for both John & Hannah
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Hi
I do agree with Toni, as there is more than 1 possibility even with a sister named Ruth into the mix. I wonder if the birth cert of the child born 1911 would be a good idea - as it was close to the Census and the address may be able to be traced?
Just in case though:
Magwen & William married Dec Qtr Haverfordwest. and if Hannah/Anna is said to have died very close to that time, in Haverfordwest RD area the only possibility I can see is: Harriet A MORGAN age 58 (born abt 1884) in Dec Qtr 1942.
I wonder if the following is her: right sort of area in the Census! The marriage area isn't as far as what we 'know' so far, but the names fit...
FreeBMD Marriage: on that same page are:
Mar Qtr 1909, Bridgend, Glam, 11a, 1075
John MORGAN
Harriet Anna JOHN
FreeBMD Birth: Mar Qtr 1884, Haverfordwest, 11a, 942
Harriet Hannah JOHN
1891: St Nicholas, Haverford West, Pembrokeshire
RG12 / Piece: 4541 / Folio 67 / Page 8
Benjamin HARRIES 70, widr, Farmer, b Llanwnda, Pemb.
Son; William HARRIES 22, single, Farmers Son, b Mathry, Pemb.
Dau: Phoebe JOHN 37, wid, b Mathry, Pemb.
Gr-Son: Richard JOHN 11, b Mathry, Pemb.
Gr-Dau: Ruth JOHN 9, b Jordanston, Pemb
Gr-Dau: Harriet 7, b Mathry, Pemb. (abt 1884)
1901: The Village, St Nicholas, Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire
RG13/ Piece: 5133/ Folio: 75/ Page: 2
Benjamin HARRIES 80, widr, Farmer, b Llanwnda, Pemb.
Son; William HARRIES 22, single, Farmers Son, b Mathry, Pemb.
Dau: Phebe JOHN 48, wid, b Mathry, Pemb.
Gr-Son: Richard B JOHN 21 , farmer's Grandson, b Mathry, Pemb.
Gr-Dau: Harriet A JOHN 17, General Domestic Servant, b Mathry, Pemb. (abt 1884)
I wonder if your Hannah, can be recalled as having had an older brother named Richard :)
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thats her!
This post with the names jogged the memory of an aunt who remembers some of them and the names etc etc fit.Thank you so very much everyone :)
x
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Just wanted to thank everyone once again, it's been quite a journey and is amazing to have found long ago family who we thought we wouldn't ever know a thing about!
My family tree is looking wonderful now!
Thank you all
Jayne
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Well done all.
A search for Morgans living with Johns in Haverfordwest on the 1911 census confirms that Harriet A and John are living with Harriet's mum Phoebe John. John Morgan born 1877 Llanwnda is listed as a farmer so perhaps his status has changed with the death of grandad Benjamin Harries the farmer in 1908.
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do we know who Benjamin married
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Ruth David 1851 Haverfordwest
HTH
Howard
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Hello all,
I am still searching for more details of John and Harriet Anna , I know when they were born and where, I also know when they died. I am trying to find their final resting places and it's difficult.
Any ideas where to search, have tried church secretary of parish where family were told they lay to rest (Llangloffan) records were searched, they are not there.
Jayne
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Hello all,
I am still searching for more details of John and Harriet Anna , I know when they were born and where, I also know when they died. I am trying to find their final resting places and it's difficult.
Any ideas where to search, have tried church secretary of parish where family were told they lay to rest (Llangloffan) records were searched, they are not there.
Jayne
Still searching for resting place :(