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Independent Islands => Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark => Channel Islands Lookup Requests => Topic started by: cailean on Sunday 08 May 05 17:00 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to trace the family history of my late father THOMAS FRANCIS JACKSON said to have been born 20 April 1908 in Melton Mowbray. I am new to genealogy so please be gentle! My father was the illegitimate son of CHARLOTTE SERAPIS SOADY JACKSON who was born circa 1869 on HMS troopship Serapis. She died on 2nd Feb 1940 in Nottingham. My father had a sister (half-sister?), also illegitimate, called ELIZABETH HELEN BUCKENHAM nee JACKSON (UPDATE - LOCATED AS ELIZABETH ELLEN AND BIRTH CERTIFICATE SENT FOR) said to have been born in Melton Mowbray on 23 November 1891 (although I can find no record of her birth).
Charlotte Serapis Soady Jackson's parents were THOMAS JACKSON born in Harston circa 1846 and CHARLOTTE ? born in ST. HELIER JERSEY circa 1843. Charlotte Serapis Soady Jackson had an older brother called CHARLES EDW. LIDDELL JACKSON born in Portsmouth circa 1863. I did wonder whether Charlotte's maiden name might be LIDDELL or SOADY, the third names given to her son and daughter respectively as these do not sound like conventional forenames. Of course, this could be a total red herring. I should like to find out Charlotte's maiden name and wondered if you could offer any assistance in this endeavour please.
Charlotte from St Helier seems to have died (less likely divorced) sometime between 1881 and 1890. In the 1881 census she is living with her family at 101 Park Street Lenton Nottingham. She is 38, a laundress and they have three boarders in their house, all railwaymen. Her husband Thomas is a drayman. However, by the 1891 census Thomas has a new wife ANNIE ? and a young son called JOHN WILLIAM and they are living at 19 Main Street in the village of Eastwell in Leicestershire. Ten years later, they have moved to a farm in Goadby Marwood and have another child called LILY JACKSON.
Thank you for any assistance you are able to offer me in this search.
Colin Jackson
Username cailean
Postscript
I was a little confused myself by the place of birth of Thomas Jackson. The 1881 census has him living with Charlotte C. and his two children and three boarders at 101 Park street Lenton Nottm and says his birthplace was Hants Harston. The 1891 census has his birthplace as Leicestershire Harston and the 1901 census (looks like Leicester) Harston. As far as I know, there is no Harston in Hampshire but there is a place called Harston in both Leicestershire and Cambridgeshire. Although I can find no place called Harston in Hants., there is a Hampshire connection because Thomas Jackson and Charlotte C 's first child Charles Edw. Liddell Jackson was born in Portsmouth. Also, there second child Charlotte Serapis Soady Jackson was born on HMS Serapis a troopship which was at times in 1863 in Portsmouth. In fact, this troopship was loaned by the Navy to the government in April / May 1863 to carry emigrants to Quebec Canada. Most of these emigrants were unemployed Portsmouth dock workers. I am trying to obtain the passenger list for this voyage as I suspect the family may have emigrated but then returned to UK later ... and, of course, then showed on the 1881 census. ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO FIND THE INDEX OF THE BIRTH OF SOMEONE BORN AT SEA IN ORDER THAT I CAN ORDER THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?
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Hi Colin !
This is the 1861 census
William Jackson head age 58 born Harston Leics
Elizabeth wife age 42 Marston Lincoln
Ellen daughter age 18 Harston Leics
Thomas son age 15 Harston Leics
Mary Granddaughter age 6 mths Harston Leics
James Bell Son in law age20 Marston Lincoln
Sam Bell Son in law age 18 Harston Leics
I need to get you the address and census info I'll post it with the other Thomas Jackson I found OK?
Regards
Annie
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Colin
I just sent you some images let me know what you think - can you sort them out ????
Annie
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Colin
Just for a change of pace found a picture of Serapis
http://www.barnardf.demon.co.uk/pictures/jumna.htm
Enjoy!
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Hi, now see that the HMS Serapis image was via a link... it is the same image I referred to with the famous Dreadnought in front of it. Thanks.
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Colin
What's funny is - that Ellen the daughter - is transcribed on the census as ELLEN JACKSON not BELL.................... !!
Annie
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It is odd James Bell son-in-law was born in Marston Lincs where William's wife was born but the other son-in-law, Sam Bell was born in Harston Leicestershire where husband William Jackson was born. Actually, these two villages are about 8 miles apart, although in different counties. If Ellen is still called JACKSON it suggests that she wasn't married at that point but if either James or Sam was her partner, son-in-law was a courtesy title! And if the granddaughter, Mary was her child then yet another illegitimate child in the family!
Colin. (cailean)
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Boy Colin!!
Your family must be "Goers" - don't forget there was no TV !!!!!!
But isn't this exciting - better than any book I reckon...!!!!!!!
Annie
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OK heres 1881
101 Park St Lenton Nottingham
Thomas Jackson 35 Drayman
Charlotte Jackson 38 Laundress
Chas Edw Liddell Jackson 18 First hand lace maker
Charlotte SS Jackson 13 scholar
Everything is the same as you had it Places of birth and stuff But added tidbits are as follows
Charlotte SS Jackson is listed as " Lame "
also have 3 boarders
Thomas Wm Emms age 25 Porter at Midland Railway b, Aston Magna Notts
George Heartop age 18 clerk "' " b. Ampthill
Wm Scull age 21 Porter " " b. Gloucester
Thought you might be interested - the boarders could turn out to be family.....!
Annie
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Found a death notice for
FRANCIS THOMAS JACKSON - note the name transposed!
Death registration Nov 1997
age 89
Reg. district Basford Nottingham
Reg # BS20C entry # 17
also
THOMAS FRANCIS JACKSON
Death registration Sept 1993
age 84
Reg district Carlise Cumbria
Reg # A44E entry # 63
What do you think?
Annie
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Hi annie,
Yes I had the 1881 census information putting the family at 101 Park Street and, as I said, believe that I have followed Thomas Jackson in the next two census records when he has a new wife Annie and starts a second family. I am pretty confident it is the same Thomas Jackson because of Charlotte S.S. Jackson his daughter who is still residing with him in 1891 whilst working as a general servant but by 1901 Charlotte S.S. Jackson is working as a general servant living in at The Rectory in Wyfordby near Melton Mowbray working for the Rector, a CofE clergyman, and his wife and children, the Ramsay family. At this stage 1901, Charlotte S.S. has a ten year old daughter Elizabeth Helen (Nellie) but where is she???? I can find no reference to her birth and I don't know where she was living. Perhaps, she lived in with her mother but wasn't recorded on the census as living at the Rectory because of her illegitimacy. Perhaps she had been fostered and was living with other relatives? UPDATE : MY DAD'S SISTER (MAYBE HALF-SISTER) NELLIE NOW LOCATED AS ELIZABETH ELLEN AGE 9 LIVING IN NEARBY SCALFORD WITH A 63 YEAR OLD WIDOW CALLED SARAH KNAPP AND HER SON. NELLIE'S RELATIONSHIP TO SARAH KNAPP HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD IS DESCRIBED AS A NURSE CHILD (NOT A TERM I'M FAMILIAR WITH)
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Hi,
FRANCIS THOMAS JACKSON was my father (Transposition of forenames was my error in earlier message). I was responsible for registering his death at age 89 in 1997.
He was born 20 April 1908 and the illegitimate son of Charlotte Serapis Soady Jackson. His older sister (or maybe half-sister), also illegitimate, was Elizabeth Helen Buckenham nee Jackson (Nellie) and was supposedly born in vicinity of Melton Mowbray on 23 Nov 1891. ..... but I can find no reference to her birth being registered nor can I find her on the census for 1901 when she would be about ten years old. As I said, she is not living with her mother Carlotte S.S. Jackson who in 1901 was a live-in servant at The Rectory in Wyfordby near Melton Mowbray. ELIZABETH ELLEN JACKSON NOW LOCATED AND BIRTH CERTIFICATE ORDERED FROM INDEX MELTON MOWBRAY MAR 1882 VOL 7a PAGE 316
Colin (cailean)
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Colin
1901
1. There is an Elizabeth Jackson aged 11 in a workhouse in Northants
2. Elizabeth aged 10 in Melton Mowbrey parents John and Hannah
3. Elizabeth aged 9 in Birmingham parents William and Elizabeth
4. Elizabeth aged 8 in Durham parents John and Elizabeth
I can give details if you think anyone fits....
Annie
One more thing - don't forget dates are sometime births and sometimes baptisms....!so you can't always rely on the date........as being date of birth!!
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Re. Elizabeth Helen (known as Nellie) Buckenham nee Jackson.
I have a pretty firm date of birth for her (23 Nov 1891). This is because, after her marriage to her husband Robert (aka Bob) Buckenham and the birth of two daughters, Lucy and Ivy, Nellie and her family emigrated to Canada joining Thomas Buckenham, (Robert's brother who had emigrated years earlier) and Thomas's wife, Ethel Blanche See. Thomas had established himself as a farmer in Canada and for a time Robert worked with his brother but life in Canada was not to Robert's liking and the family returned to Nottingham UK where Robert resumed work in a brickyard and he and Nellie had a third daughter, June. All of this information is printed in North of the Gulley History Book Committee by Turner Warwick Printed Maidstne Mirror Saskatchewan 1981.
Census asks for age last birthday (I think) so in 1901 census am I right in thinking Nellie should be declared as 9 years (or 10 years if the census was held on or after 23 Nov that year). Do we know what date the census was taken?
I suppose it is conceivable that Nellie could have been farmed out to relatives of whom I am unaware and who recorded her as their own child on the census, perhaps to avoid embarrassment. It is possible that as a child Nellie was sent to a workhouse although I thought such institutions were more for orphans or destitute parents and their children. Clearly, Nellie did not lose contact with her mother Charlotte S.S. as in later life, certainly in the 1930s Nellie and her family, my father (Francis Thomas Jackson) and his mother were all living in close proximity to each other in the Meadows area of Nottingham. Also, when my father was a young child he lived with his mother in the Meadows area and his grandfather, Thomas Jackson, (who never spoke to him owing to his illigitimacy or so he claimed), lived close by. My father had a childhood recollection of attending the funeral, along with his mother, of his grandfather in Wilford....... This is another line of enquiry I am trying to follow. If I can locate the grave, I might be able to ascertain his precise date of death and also whether other family members are buried with him. I have already located the grave of my father's mother Charlotte S.S. in The City of Nottingham Sothern Cemetery. This grave was purchased by my father in 1940 and his mother is the only occupant. I discovered that this grave can be transferred now to my ownership and that there is room in it for the burial of three more bodies or the ashes of I think it was ten people! Food for thought!
Anyway, I'd like the details .... certainly of No 2 on your list as Melton Mowbray looms large in all of this and the age for her is about right. No 3. is a possibility on basis of age although Birmingham is 35 miles or more distant from where Charlotte was living age 22 when she gave birth to Nellie in 1891. No 4 seems unlikely - child too young and Durham is a long way North . The workhouse is I suppose another possibility - Northamptonshire County is adjacent to Leicestershire so not too far away.
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Colin
1901
2 Soho Court Melton Mowbray
John Jackson age 34 Furnace Labourer b. Melton Mowbray
Hannah Jackson age 34 b. Melton Mowbray
Elizabeth age 10 b. Melton Mowbray
Polly age 7 b. Bullwell Notts
George aged 3 Broughton North Hants
Kate aged 1 b. Melton Mowbray
72 St Giles St Thomas Hospital Alms Houses
Elizabeth Jackson aged 11 b. North Hants
9 New John St Birmingham
Alice M Jackson aged 7 b. Birmingham
Elizabeth Jackson aged 40 b. Birmingham
Elizabeth H aged 8 b. Birmingham
John Jackson aged 36 Colliery Banks man b. Birmingham
Martha J aged 5 b. Birmingham
This will give you an idea....
Annie
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Guess what ??
I found some Soady"s in Jersey in 1861...........!!!!
5 Bond Street
Abraham Bandins b. 1816 St Peters Port Guernsey
Elizabeth Bandins b.1826 Devonport England
SUSAN SOADY servant b. 1843 St Helier Jersey
Daniel Kennedy Lodger age 19 St Helier Jersey
John Kennedy Lodger age 23 Ireland
Samuel Madifer Lodger age 14 Ireland
2 Cross Street
Prudence Soady age 57 School Mistress b. England
Elizabeth J? Soady age 21 Dress maker b. Jersey
Kitty Soady age 15 Ironer b. Jersey
Martha J Dorey age ? lodger b. Jersey
1 Byron? Road
Mary Jane Soady married age 29 b. St Helier Jersey
Henrietta MJ Soady age 2 b.St. Helier Jersey Jersey
it says Mary Jane is head of household !!
these 2 ladies were included with the Soadys
38 High Cliff
Charlotte De St Crois servant b. 1845 St Lawrence Jersey
54 King St
Mary De St Crois boarder age 26 Needlewoman b. St. Peters Jersey
Hope this helps
Annie
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Hi
I was wondering if this young lady might be your Elizabeth (h)ellen Jackson. She is about the right age and at that age would not really know where she was born. And the family she is with may have had to take a guess?????
Elizabeth Ellen Jachens 9 Eastwell, Leicestershire, England Nurse Child Scalford Leicestershire
Sarah Knapp 63 Waltham, Leicestershire, England Head Scalford Leicestershire
William Knapp 17 Scalford, Leicestershire, England Son Scalford Leicestershire
On the image it does say JACKSON.
If you want a copy of the iomage let me have your email address.
Wendy
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Hi
and here is the record of her birth. Just remember that as she was as you say born NOV her birth entry would not have made it that quarter of OCT - DEC And the month shown is not when she was born but the last month of the next quarter JAN - MARCH So that's why is shows MARCH 1892.
Name: Jackson, Elizabeth Ellen
Record Type: Births
Quarter: March
Year: 1892
District: Melton Mowbray
County: Leicestershire Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 316
Wendy
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Hi Colin
Just thought I'd tell you I have sent those images again - let me know when you receive them OK?
Annie :D :D
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Hi Annie ,
Many thanks ...will do.
Colin
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Re. Elizabeth Helen (known as Nellie) Buckenham nee Jackson.
I have a pretty firm date of birth for her (23 Nov 1891). This is because, after her marriage to her husband Robert (aka Bob) Buckenham and the birth of two daughters, Lucy and Ivy, Nellie and her family emigrated to Canada joining Thomas Buckenham, (Robert's brother who had emigrated years earlier) and Thomas's wife, Ethel Blanche See. Thomas had established himself as a farmer in Canada and for a time Robert worked with his brother but life in Canada was not to Robert's liking and the family returned to Nottingham UK where Robert resumed work in a brickyard and he and Nellie had a third daughter, June. All of this information is printed in North of the Gulley History Book Committee by Turner Warwick Printed Maidstne Mirror Saskatchewan 1981.
Census asks for age last birthday (I think) so in 1901 census am I right in thinking Nellie should be declared as 9 years (or 10 years if the census was held on or after 23 Nov that year). Do we know what date the census was taken?
I suppose it is conceivable that Nellie could have been farmed out to relatives of whom I am unaware and who recorded her as their own child on the census, perhaps to avoid embarrassment. It is possible that as a child Nellie was sent to a workhouse although I thought such institutions were more for orphans or destitute parents and their children. Clearly, Nellie did not lose contact with her mother Charlotte S.S. as in later life, certainly in the 1930s Nellie and her family, my father (Francis Thomas Jackson) and his mother were all living in close proximity to each other in the Meadows area of Nottingham. Also, when my father was a young child he lived with his mother in the Meadows area and his grandfather, Thomas Jackson, (who never spoke to him owing to his illigitimacy or so he claimed), lived close by. My father had a childhood recollection of attending the funeral, along with his mother, of his grandfather in Wilford....... This is another line of enquiry I am trying to follow. If I can locate the grave, I might be able to ascertain his precise date of death and also whether other family members are buried with him. I have already located the grave of my father's mother Charlotte S.S. in The City of Nottingham Sothern Cemetery. This grave was purchased by my father in 1940 and his mother is the only occupant. I discovered that this grave can be transferred now to my ownership and that there is room in it for the burial of three more bodies or the ashes of I think it was ten people! Food for thought!
Anyway, I'd like the details .... certainly of No 2 on your list as Melton Mowbray looms large in all of this and the age for her is about right. No 3. is a possibility on basis of age although Birmingham is 35 miles or more distant from where Charlotte was living age 22 when she gave birth to Nellie in 1891. No 4 seems unlikely - child too young and Durham is a long way North . The workhouse is I suppose another possibility - Northamptonshire County is adjacent to Leicestershire so not too far away.
UPDATE : NOW LOCATED AS ELIZABETH ELLEN LIVING IN NEARBY SCALFORD IN 1901 AGED 9 YEARS WITH A LADY CALLED SARAH KNAPP WHO DESCRIBES HER AS A NURSE CHILD.
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Colin
did you get your images ? I asked Wendy to help us ...
Annie
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Colin, this family is directly linked to mine. I have the full history of Charles Edward Liddell and his parents. I have the line for Charlotte in Jersey back to 1475 and have traced the line for the Liddells. I have the marriage records for Thomas Jackson and Edward Liddell who married Charlotte Clark Howe of jersey. Please get in touch regards John Colam
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I have this family line back to Charlotte Clark Howe who firstly married Edward Liddell and in 1867 she married Thomas Jackson. Have lots of information - happy to share. regards John
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CHARLOTTE SERAPIS SOADY JACKSON who was born circa 1869 on HMS troopship Serapis.
I wonder if you have seen the GRO index of marine births 1862-1875 includes this birth - reference page 173. I am not sure how to get a copy of the entry (possibly from www.gro.gov.uk - overseas births) but if possible this could provide more information.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
No, I haven't seen this entry relating to the birth of my grandmother Charlotte Serapis Soady Jackson on board the troopship HMS Serapis in the GRO records of births at sea 1862 -1875 and am wondering if it is possible to view this on line. I have no real expertise in genealogy research so please be gentle with me! Is it possible for you to tell me how to view page 173 of the records. I looked at the GRO website and it looks as if you can buy a hard copy of a marine birth for around £7 on line but they seem to need a lot of detail to order a certificate and it would be nice to view the record on line first if this is possible. I presume it must be. I did find just one page of marine births for this period on a site called Familyrelatives.org but the birth I'm interested in seeing the record of wasn't among those on that page.
Thanks very much for getting in touch and, if you can help further, it would be appreciated.
Regards, Colin.
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Hi Colin -
I have never ordered a marine birth so I'm not sure about the process myself. I think you will have to order a hard copy - and I hope the name, years and page number will be sufficient detail. If it is anything like an ordinary birth certificate, it will have lots or additional information that is well worth the £7 and it can be ordered on-line with a credit card.
PS - I got the reference from the index on Familyrelatives.org in the free 'Overseas births' bit.
Mike
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Thanks very much for the extra information.
Regards, Colin
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I have this family line back to Charlotte Clark Howe who firstly married Edward Liddell and in 1867 she married Thomas Jackson. Have lots of information - happy to share. regards John
Colin -
I have located the marriage reference for Thomas Jackson and Charlotte Clark Howe -
St Helier Parish Church, 28 March, 1867 -
Thomas Jackson, 22, bachelor, Private 69 Regiment, residing St Helier, born Harlston, Leics; father William Jackson, labourer
and
Charlotte Clark Howe, 23, widow of Edward Liddell, residing St Helier, born St Helier; father George Howe, engineer.
The birth certificate reference for Thomas Jackson is in the Registrars index 1.8.1842 - 30.9.1843, page 79.
I did not locate the birth reference for Charlotte C Howe, but noticed a probable sibling in the St Helier Parish Church baptisms -
HOWE George Charles, b.2.8.1841 bapt. 26.9.1841
son of George Howe, joiner, and Mary Le Moignan.
I don't know if you had this information, but hope it helps. Let me know if you need any more look-ups in Jersey archives.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Thank you very much for providing this information. Most kind of you. Since I wrote the inquiry to which you responded on Roots Chat, I have been contacted by John Colam whose wife shares with me a common ancestor, specifically a great grandmother who was Charlotte Clarke Howe. It now appears that Charlotte Clarke Howe was married twice, both times in St Helier. Firstly in her late teens to an older man, Private Edward Liddell with whom she had a son, Charles Edward Liddell. Sadly, Edward Liddell died within a year or so of marrying (possibly en route back from India as he was invalided out of the army). Charlotte then married a man about three years her junior, my great grandfather, Private Thomas Jackson. Shortly after the marriage the family were posted to Ireland for a few months and from there they travelled on the Royal Navy troopship HMS Serapis, captained by John Clark Soady R.N., to Canada where Thomas Jackson served in the Lincolnshire Regiment possibly for a few years. The family were living in Lenton, a suburb of Nottingham by the time of the 1881 census and Thomas was no longer a soldier. John Colam has obtained a copy of the Ship's Log showing that Charlotte, Private Thomas Jackson's wife, gave birth, on board, to a female child (my grandmother) about 9 hours after the ship set sail at 4.10 pm on 19th August 1867 and that this child was baptized Charlotte Serapis Soady Jackson three days later when the ship was mid-Atlantic.
I am gradually building this information into my own amateur website : www.mealsgate.tk see Nottingham links and Channel Island Links - if interested.
John Colam's wife, Gillian, is directly descended from Charles Edward Liddell who was Charlotte Serapis Soady Jackson's half brother. Last week I located the grave of Charles Edward Liddell and, as recently as yesterday, I found the burial record of his mother, Charlotte Clarke Jackson, formerly Liddell nee Howe. We are now hoping to locate her grave. She died aged just 38 and was buried on 27th December 1882 in Trinity Churchyard in Lenton Nottingham.
What is really mind-boggling is that John Colam has managed to trace some ancestral lines of Charlotte Clark Howe back in Jersey to 1478..... I think that represents going back 16 generations or thereabouts! This was possible, I suppose, because the family stayed put in Jersey ... in fact most were in the same Parish! Anyway, there's even a Le Bastard in there somewhere which, I understand, was the family name of the Duke of Normandy.... so who knows, could be related to William the Conqueror!! The other spooky thing is that my wife's late mother came from Guernsey so my wife has many relatives on Guernsey. Until John Colam identified Charlotte Clarke Howe as definitely coming from St Helier, I had no idea that I myself had Channel Islanders as ancestors.
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Hi Colin,
Just a very short note as your original message is a few years old - I am doing some research for a granddaughter of Charlotte SS Jackson's daughter (Elizabeth Ellen). Are you still researching?
Regards,
Phil.