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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: paulwaring on Wednesday 02 November 11 13:22 GMT (UK)
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ive found the marriage record for my great great grand parents and wanted to know who their parents are here is the details i have found would be grateful of any help
marriage 14 aug 1859 st martins in the fields liverpool lancashire
john collins - minor labourer bachelor of tenterden st liverpool
ellen grady minor spinster of tenterden st liverpool
grooms father william collins labourer
brides fathe andrew grady
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1861: 17, Chesnut Street, Liverpool
John COLLINS, Head b1833 Ireland - Boot Maker Employing 1man 1boy
Ellen COLLINS, Wife b1836 Parkgate, Cheshire
Joseph COLLINS, Son b1858 Liverpool
John COLLINS, Son b1860 Birkenhead
John C GRADY, Boarder b1818 Ireland - Schoolmaster
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Piece: 2682
Folio: 103
Page: 33
Edit: See here (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,564151.msg4166318.html#msg4166318) for details
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Can't find on 1851 at the moment
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1861: 17, Chesnut Street, Liverpool
John COLLINS, Head b1833 Ireland - Boot Maker Employing 1man 1boy
Ellen COLLINS, Wife b1836 Parkgate, Cheshire
Joseph COLLINS, Son b1858 Liverpool
John COLLINS, Son b1860 Birkenhead
John C GRADY, Boarder b1818 Ireland - Schoolmaster
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Piece: 2682
Folio: 103
Page: 33
I wondered about that one too - John's occupation given as a Labourer on marriage 1859 both minors at marriage
Information on the Marriage Certificate for Genealogy Research
if it says "minor" or "under age" that means between the ages of 12 and 20 for a girl and 14-20 for a boy,
I can't place a John & Ellen with occupation Labourer on 1861c there's this one wrong occ. though ??? and it would mean son Thomas born before marriage 1859 ???
1861 RG9; Piece: 3098; Folio: 101; Page: 33
John Collins 24 Ireland cotton spinner
Ellen Collins 21 Ireland
Thomas Collins 4 (1857) Blackburn
Anne Collins 2
Edit
Don't think the above is your John & Ellen as there's a marriage in Blackburn 1855 John Collins & Ellen Hagan names on same page ??? ???
Haven't been able to find an Ellen Grady with father Andrew occ. Labourer on 1851 census either
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Hi,
Where do they say they were born on a later census?
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Where do they say they were born on a later census?
Good question mosiefish from paulwarings post I'd assumed he only has the marriage details
John COLLINS, Head b1833 Ireland - Boot Maker Employing 1man 1boy
Ellen COLLINS, Wife b1836 Parkgate, Cheshire
Joseph COLLINS, Son b1858 Liverpool
John COLLINS, Son b1860 Birkenhead
John C GRADY, Boarder b1818 Ireland - Schoolmaster
here's this family on 1871 & 1881c
1871 RG10; Piece: 3792; Folio: 36; Page: 1
John Collins occ Bootmaker & Ellen
have 5 additions to 1861c
Phillip 10, Frances 8, Mary 6, Joseph 4 & Vincent 1
1881 Ellen Collins widowed 3 more children
Edward 7, Ellen 6 & Annie 4
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I wondered about that one too - John's occupation given as a Labourer on marriage 1859 both minors at marriage
Information on the Marriage Certificate for Genealogy Research
if it says "minor" or "under age" that means between the ages of 12 and 20 for a girl and 14-20 for a boy,
Don't think the above is your John & Ellen as there's a marriage in Blackburn 1855 John Collins & Ellen Hagan names on same page ??? ???
Oops :-[ I think I jumped ahead of myself, as I saw the name Grady listed with the family & may have jumped to conclusions
Edit: - apologies - It appears the one I suggests is this couple:
Mar 1857
Ashurst Ellen Wirral 8a 542
Collins John Wirral 8a 542
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Oops :-[ I think I jumped ahead of myself, as I saw the name Grady listed with the family & may have jumped to conclusions
chickadee2212 I was refereing to the 1861c census I had posted John Collins occ. cotton spinner
Hopefully paulwaring will let us know if he has any further info. on this family :)
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john collins on the 1901 census living in 344 fleet lane parr aged 70 born much woolton nr liverpool
ellen collins was at same address aged 60 born up holland
when they married they were both living in the same street tenterden street
i know that johns dad was william from the marriage record but doent give williams wifes name
and ellens dad was called andrew
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just looked up the street they both lived in looks like they were in the work house in liverpool any idea where i would get the records for these
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Workhouse records can be found at Liverpool Record Office - which is situated at Liverpool Musuem for the time being
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1881 Brook St Whiston
John Collins H M 48 coal miner bn Much Woolton
Ellen 48 bn Upholland
Esther Ellen daur 19 bn Upholland
Charles son 10 bn Upholland
Mary Ann daur 8 bn Prescot
Gibel
PS I can't see them in the workhouse. I'm not sure what you mean.
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1871 Ormskirk Road Rainford
John J Collins H M 29 coal miner bn Much Woolton
Ellen wife 35? bn Upholland
Esther E daur 5 bn Upholland
Charles son 7 months bn Rainford
Gibel
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Gibel
PS I can't see them in the workhouse. I'm not sure what you mean.
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hi the street they lived in when they got married seems to be attached to the liverpool workhouse from the info i got off the internet no one can find them on the 1861 census
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marriage 14 aug 1859 st martins in the fields
john collins - minor labourer bachelor of tenterden st liverpool
ellen grady minor spinster of tenterden st liverpool
grooms father william collins labourer brides father andrew grady
john collins on the 1901 census 344 fleet lane parr aged 70 born much woolton
ellen collins was at same address aged 60 born up holland
1901c RG13; Piece: 3525; Folio: 97; Page: 26
John Collin's age 70 gives birth c1831
Ellen age 60 born c1841 Upholland
You mention that both John & Ellen are minors on their marriage 1859 looking at the 1901c John should have been about aged 28 in 1859 when he married so I would have thought of full age ??? Is this definately the correct family 1901c
1891 RG12; Piece: 3024; Folio 89; Page 13 – 348 Fleet Lane
John Collins 62 (1829) Woolton
Ellen 60 (1831) Upholland
Charles 20 (1861)
Mary ann 18 Prescot
Thomas Collins 48 coal miner Woolton
1881 Brook St Whiston
John Collins H M 48 coal miner bn Much Woolton
Ellen 48 bn Upholland
Esther Ellen daur 19 bn Upholland
Charles son 10 bn Upholland
Mary Ann daur 8 bn Prescot
1871 Ormskirk Road Rainford
John J Collins H M 29 (1842) coal miner bn Much Woolton
Ellen wife 35? (1836) bn Upholland
Esther E daur 5 bn Upholland
Charles son 7 months bn Rainford
This looks to be son Charles birth entry unfortunately it doesn't give mothers maiden name to check whether it was GRADY - Do you have any of the childrens birth certificates ? It maybe worth checking that this is the correct family
Birth entry from lancashire bmd
1870 COLLINS Charles Rainford St Helens RAI/7/33
I can't find a John Collins born c1831 Much Woolton & Ellen born c1836/41 Upholland on the 1861 c the appear very elusive ???
As hard as I try I can't seem to find a match for Ellen Grady born c1836 Upholland on 1841 or 1851 censuses ???
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Do you know if John & Ellen's parents were alive when they married?
I have found this John Collins born Woolton on 1851 c
1851 HO107; Piece: 2194; Folio: 225; Page: 31- Head William Atherton 39 Coal Miner
John Collins 13 (1838) Woolton Lancashire Servant
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well im more confused than ever now so will go to the older members of my family to try get more information off them
thanks for all your help
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witness to marriage Edward and Elizabeth Anderson
are these two related to John or Ellen
it doesnt say the fathers are deceased,on the marriage record
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Which of the 3 children esther Ellen, Charles and Mary Ann is thought to be your direct ancestor?
If the couple were in Liverpool Workhouse in the 1861 census they would show within the pages for the workhouse. It's more likely they have been badly transcribed or they are using a different name.
Gibel
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What does this mean on the marriage record , it says married by registrars certificate ?
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There may be more than one John Collins and Ellen
Joannes Morgan Collins
son of Joannes Collins and Helena Grady,
Holy Cross,
born 11th of August,
baptism 19 th of August,
God parents Joannis McGun and Maria
Ellen,Helena Collins
born 19th of April,baptism 4th of May
God Parents ,Edward Anderson and Margarite Riley
Catherine, Catherina
7th of October 1863
baptism 18 th of October,
God parents Joannis McVeigh,and Maria McGun?
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To add to those 3 children there's also a Michael in 1869.
Then there are the children of John Collins and Ellen Ashurst!
We really need the name of the proven ancestor - a child of John and Ellen and what it says on the child's birth certificate. Otherwise we're going round in circles.
Gibel
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To add to those 3 children there's also a Michael in 1869.
Then there are the children of John Collins and Ellen Ashurst!
We really need the name of the proven ancestor - a child of John and Ellen and what it says on the child's birth certificate. Otherwise we're going round in circles.
Gibel
charles collins is my great grandfather who married bridget in 1900 they are on the 1901 census at 344 fleet lane parr living with john collins and ellen collins
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charles collins is my great grandfather who married bridget in 1900
1901 census at 344 fleet lane parr living with john collins and ellen collins
1901 RG13; Piece: 3525; Folio: 97; Page: 26
John Collins Head 70 (b1831) Much Woolton Coal Miner
Ellen wife 63 (1838) Upholland
CHARLES son 30 (1871)Rainford Nr St Helens Coal Miner
Bridget wife 28 Galway Ireland
Martin GAVIN son 2 Prescot
Ellen dau 6 months St Helen’s
Jun 1900 Prescot vol 8b page 1128
Charles COLLINS
Name on same page
Bridget GAVIN
1891 RG12; Piece: 3024; Folio 89; Page 13
Charles age 20 Lancs Coal Miner with parents John (b1829) Coal Miner & Ellen
1881 RG11; Piece: 3728; Folio: 68; Page: 26
Charles age 10 Upholland with parents John (b1837)Coal Miner & Ellen
1871 RG10; Piece: 3868; Folio: 11; Page: 16
Charles age 7 months Rainford with parents John J (b1842) ??? Coal Miner & Ellen
Is the 1859 marriage the correct one for John Collins & Ellen?
We really need the name of the proven ancestor - a child of John and Ellen and what it says on the child's birth certificate.
Otherwise we're going round in circles.
Yes I agree Gibel
Do you have Charles or any other child’s birth certificate to confirm mother’s maiden name?
This is his birth entry from Lancashire BMD http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi?county=lancashire
1870 COLLINS Charles Rainford St Helens RAI/7/33
Have you checked the 1911c for Charles & Bridget to see if he is still living with his parents
John & Ellen this may give an indication as to how long J & E have been married
Do you know if boarder Thomas Collins b1843 Woolton living with John & Ellen on 1891c is related ?
for info. in case it relates - don't know if there is a connection to John Collins but this looks to be Thomas Collins with his mother & siblings 1861
1861 RG9; Piece: 2740; Folio: 99; Page: 7;
Foly Vale Little Woolton
Jane Collins Sr. Wife Mar. 48 Much Woolton
William 21 Much Woolton Labourer
Charles 15 Stone Mason (ap.)
THOMAS 18 (1843) Little Woolton
Jane 10
Henry 6
James 3
and brother William & mother Jane on 1841
1841 HO107; Piece 511; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Childwall;; ED: 1; Folio: 14; Page: 21; - Delfham Much Woolton
Jane 28, Charles Collins 29 Stone Mason, children Mary, Elizabeth, Ellen & William age 1
19 Feb 1832 St Peter, Liverpool
Charles Collins - Stone Mason of This Parish
Jane Guy - (X), Spinster of This Parish
Wits: Joseph Thelwell; Ellen Hignett, (X)
Lancashire OPC
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Hi paulwaring there's a public tree on A******y but there is no source for the info. given so cannot say how accurate it is
No parents names given for John & Ellen or marriage details, they name two children Mary Ann 1872 – 1955 & Charles 1870 Rainford married Bridget Gavin dau Mary Ann 1902
Death John Collins 13/02/1911 48 Perckershill Road Sutton born 1838
Death Ellen Collins 15/12/1904 90 Perkshill Road Sutton born 1836 - Ellen Bannister bapt. St. Thomas Upholland 28/8/1836
I have found this christening record to confirm parents names of Ellen Bannister
Christening date 28/8/1936 Upholland Lancashire parents James Bannister & Esther
and here she is on the censuses
28 Feb 1829 All Saints, Wigan
James Bannister (X) Esther Heaton (X)
both of Wigan Parish
Wit Samuel Hickox Saml. Vizard
1841 HO107; Piece 522; Book: 20; Civil Parish: Wigan ED: 4; Folio: 7; Page: 6; Line: 9
Damels Lane Upholland
James Bannister 30 Cotton Weaver
John 12
Edward 10
Elizabeth 7
ELLEN 5
All born in this county
14 Jul 1845 All Saints, Wigan
James Banister (X), 38 Weaver Widower father John (dead)
Ellen Howarth (X) 34 Weaver Spinster
Both of Up Holland
Wit Thomas Hirst, (X); Catharine Bancks, (X)
1851 HO107; Piece: 2201; Folio: 75; Page: 5;
James Banister has remarried Ellen
3 step children surname Howarth & 3 Banister (ELLEN is 14)
1861 Ellen is not at home with father James
The only way of confirming these details is to obtain Charles Collins 1870 birth certificate (details given above) to confirm his mother’s maiden name - you can then look for John & Ellen’s marriage
I may have missed something but I can’t find a BANNISTER/COLLINS marriage on Lancashire BMD or FreeBMD ???
Looking at the free index 1911 Charles & Bridget are living in Warrington Lancashire with their children Martin 12, Ellen 10, Mary Ann 8, James 6, Thomas 5 & Charles 10 months
Hope the info. may prove helpful in your search please let us know if you find out anything or have any more details on you Collins family so we may be able to help further :)
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thank you ladyhawk will have a look into that and repost if i find any more information