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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: cnickless on Tuesday 01 November 11 22:29 GMT (UK)
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This is a true shot in the dark! Family history has told our family that two brothers, sons of David Michie & Helen Morris settled or at least lived a time at Dumfries / Dumfriesshire. Their names were James, born 1816 & William born 1818, both born in Kilmonivaig, Inverness. Or that is at least what the OPR tells me though I do wonder why David & Helen were way up there for a short time after their marriage. David & Helen were married 1814 at Clunie. There five next children were all born at Clunie.
Given the marriage and the five other children I do wonder about their recorded births and Kilmonivaig is very similar to Kilmaveonaig, but unless their is something wrong with the OPR records on Scotland's People I have to go with that.
In anycase back to the story, this two brothers born Kilmonivaig, evidently settled or went to Dumfries according to family history.
The parents and the 5 youngest children emigrated to Canada in 1838.
I have had absolutely no luck in trying to find out what happened to James & William Michie. I cannot find any record or mention of them anywhere including the census returns, and none of the Michie families in Canada seem to tie to either of them. Did they die before 1838 or did they head off somewhere else? Like I said, a bit of a shot in the dark but maybe hoping someone somewhere has stumbled across something about them. Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Regards, Cary
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...sons of David Michie & Helen Morris ...
Hi Cary
Just so that people can help better. Sure you meant to put down down Alexander rather than David Michie, husband of Helen Morris.... ::)
Monica :)
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Oh dear! ::)
Yes, you are correct, they are the sons of Alexander Michie & Helen Morris. Their eldest son David Michie came to Montreal, the next two brothers are the two lost in Dumfries and the five youngest siblings all came to Ontario, Canada with their parents in 1838.
Thank you for catching that!
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There is always the possibility, which I am sure you have considered, that James and William may have died as children. Without a census to cross check against, it is hard to say isn't :-\ Given this is all before the start of official registration in Scotland, coverage of OPR burial/death entries is the worst of all unfortunately.
There does seem to have been a complete exodus by the family to Canada in 1838 from what you have said you have found.
Monica
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Hi Monica,
That is a possibility for sure. But two things lead me to believe the brothers were at one time in Dumfries.
1) the eldest son David's marriage entry in Montreal, Quebec in 1837 states that his parents were of Dumfriesshire, Scotland, so this lead me to think that the parents had come with the family down to Dumfries sometime in the 1830's from Perthshire.
2) An old family history or should I say tree, written about 80 years ago lists the two brothers as being in Dumfries but there is no other details about them, nor any indication if they married or not.
My feeling is that they were in Dumfriesshire and may have both died there in their early 20's (but as you say the death records in Scotland are rather dismal to say the least), and at that point the parents and five youngest children came to Canada.
But this is just conjecture at this point! Was hoping to find some fact of any kind but ultimately that may never come about!
Cheers, Cary
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Cary, what was father Alexander's occupation back in Scotland? Have I got the right David from what I have seen, a brewer in Canada?
Monica
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Hi Monica,
From what we know he was a farmer / agricultural labourer back in Perthshire. He youngest children were born at Cottertown Farm, Drumellie, Caputh, Perthshire, though the youngest John, born about 1829, I have never been able to find a birth record, so he may have been born elsewhere.
Yes, David was a brewer in the Montreal region. Where did you find that out? Now you have my curiosity going! ;)
Cary
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Cary, not really anything excitingly new I am sure on David:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/michie/messages/115.html and
www.rootschat.com/links/0gej/
Monica
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Hi Monica,
That's my man. He ran the Brewery in Ste Martine a village south of Montreal. One day I would love to find out where the source material for that book came from though it was written so long ago.
And the genforum link is actually myself many years ago. Have found out much since those days and have a lot of the structure of the family in place till about the early 1700's. Now spending time trying to figure out some of the lose ends and lost cousins, like the two brothers in Dumfriesshire...maybe one day their tale will come to light.
Thanks so much for your efforts, much appreciated. Next option might be to try and look at the gravestone inscriptions for Dumfriesshire and see if anything comes up there. Problem at this point is I don't even have a village to go on... :P ...but genealogy is about those hard to find ones isn't it!
Cheers, Cary
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Cary, there's an actor named Michie appeared on a travelogue on the box recently. He claimed they're a branch of MacDonell of Keppoch, which would fit in with Kilmoniavaig. Skoosh.
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Hi Skoosh,
Yes, I think he is correct, the Michie's of Perthshire I do believe are connected to the McDonnell's Clan, as opposed to the Michie's of Aberdeen are from a different clan I think...though the Michie's in Perthshire have been there since at least the late 1600's, if not earlier...so maybe is was a case of going back to their roots, :D. I truly think that will be a mystery never solved - why they went for about 4 years to Kilmoniavaig!
On that old family history there was something written about Alexander being a gamekeeper for the Lord Lyons but I think that is hooey as the title Lord Lyons only came about in 1840, so maybe it was some other Lord!
Cheers, Cary
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Cary, I think the title Lord Glenlyon is a subsidiary title of the Duke of Atholl. Skoosh.
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This is a true shot in the dark! .....
.... Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Regards, Cary
Thought I would check to see if Cary's ‘shot in the dark’ for his MICHIE family name scored any hits in the DGFHS MIs database. Although not totally comprehensive (no MIs database can every be complete) this database draws on surveys from more than 160 graveyard in Dumfries and Galloway. The data comprises records of MIs taken from 24 thousand gravestones covering 5 thousand different names and variations.
DGFHS on line at www.dgfhs.org.uk [database is NOT online.]
The search reports given below record only one MICHIE hit and two MECHIE hits, one of which is actually in Wigtownshire.
Location: Dumfries (St. Mary's Churchyard), Dumfriesshire
In Memory of
Janet KEDIE, spouse of Robert MICHIE, who died at Brownhall in this Parish on the 14th November 1847 aged 27 years
Also Jane REIR his mother, who died on the 14th June 1883 aged 87 years
Location: Gretna Old Parish Graveyard, Dumfriesshire
Here lyes the corps of
Mary JOHNSTON, spouse to Alexander MECHIE in Guard, who died January 19th 1732, of age 22
And her child
Location: Glenluce Cemetery (Church St. opposite Old Kirkyard), Wigtownshire
In Loving Memory of
Jessie CAMPBELL, beloved wife of William MECHIE, who died at Glen of Luce 21st Feb 1914 aged 58 years
Also the above named William MECHIE, who died at Glen of Luce 23rd Dec 1914 in his 53rd year
DGFHS archives also comprise many Old Parochial Register indexes for deaths and burials in Dumfriesshire.
A search of these indexes simply confirm that the MICHIE family is little known in Dumfriesshire.
The following is NOT indexed by Scotlandspeople but IS indexed in DGFHS publication –
Dumfries Parish, Deaths and Burials Registers Index vol. I:
Amilie MICHIE, Sept 29 1648
[Although not found in Scotlandspeople Indexes, I have viewed the film of this OPR entry.]
The Tynron Parish OPR, which are indexed by Scotlandspeople, lists this child death in 1770.
Agnes MICHIE - daughter to William MICHIE and Isobel CORSON
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Update: Queried missing Dumfries index reference with Scotlandspeople -- they have corrected the error
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Thanks Skoosh, that is an interesting lead and I did follow it but have now received another lead which has helped me place things a bit better but still missing information on what happened to the two brothers.
And Johnner, just wonderful. Great source the DGFHS obviously is. Yes, I think the Michie name is rather rare in the county. Thank you for the effort to locate anything on the family there.
Now for an update. I have come across some more family history that details a bit better when the family went in Dumfriesshire. In addition the eldest son David's marriage in Montreal, Quebec in 1837 specifically states that his parents Alexander Michie & Helen Morris were of Dumfriesshire, so we know they were there then but left and came to Canada in 1838.
Now a bit more on the further family history that ties to this Lord Lyon story. It now seems this Lord Lyons was in fact not a Lord but in fact John Stewart Lyon, Esq, who owned Kirkmichael House, Kirkmichael, Dumfriesshire. Kirkmichael House had a wooded land and therefore a gamekeeper was probably engaged.
This John Stewart Lyon evidently came to Upper Canada (Ontario) at one point, prior to 1836 and owned or inherited property through his wife, who was a Mary Theresa Dickson born in Ontario. It appears the wedding took place in London in 1836 and John & Mary returned to Kirkmichael, where their children were born. The family continued to own the property for some time but also property in Upper Canada.
So now I think we have a place where Alexander & his family were living and probably where his sons were if they died in Dumfriesshire. So next big question - is there a listing of the cemetery incriptions from Kirkmichael? Or did the Lyon family have their own cemetery? Maybe all getting a bit clearer or mabe more murky! :P
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I have all the MIs for Kirkmichael -- sorry Cary but none of your MICHIEs are listed.
The LYON family have this huge memorial.
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Well if I have ever seen an impressive grave that is it!
Thanks for that, I didn't put much hope in finding anything there but just a long shot but at least I think I am on the right track for where the family was. These two brothers may end up a mystery for all time...
Cheers, Cary
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Maybe all getting a bit clearer or mabe more murky!
Hi Cary, I'm not sure if this makes things clearer or murkier -- you wiil have to be judge of that !
I was a duty volunteer in the DGFHS Research Centre this morning and wasn't too busy.
Had a look at the OPRs for Dumfriesshire Marriages to see if there was anything on your 'rare' MICHIEs.
What do you make of these two OPR extract clips? :
- the Dumfries Parish clip identifies a Robert MICHIE, widower & freeman in Kingholm Mill (so probably a miller) declaring his intention to marry Agnes Coupland both of the same parish.
- the Mouswald Parish clip confirms they were married in Dumfries 4th June 1849
Do they belong to your lot ?
Cheers,
Sy
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re the lyon family kirkmichel photos available,john william stewart LYON
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from the morning post London fri. nov 11th 1836
on the 10th inst at st.georges hanover square john stewart lyon esq. of kirkmicheal dumfrieshire to mary Theresa only surviving child of the late Thomas Dickson esq. of queenston upper Canada the ceremony having been previously performed according to the rites of the roman catholic religion