RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: ajayr on Tuesday 01 November 11 17:54 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find the marriage of Dorothy Violet Wisbey and Arthur Warwick Beament in Canada probably 1924-1930 and I think in Ottawa. Any information would be greatly appreciated. I believe that Dorothy Violet died and that Arthur Warwick may have married again in later life.
Tony Randall
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Unfortunately Canada does not have a Central registries/indexes for BMDs. Canada has very strict privacy laws and each province imposes its own even further. Additionally, some provinces are more research friendly than others so researching in Canada can be challenging. The last available Canadian Census was 1911 apart from Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta which was 1916. As a guide BMD Records are only available for births more than a 100 years ago, marriages 80 years ago and deaths 70 years ago. Trying to trace modern day families in Canada you depend on newspaper announcements, cemetery records, obituaries, telephone directories etc.,
Can't help with the marriage but came across - Supreme Court of Canada
Beament et al. v. Minister of National Revenue [1970] S.C.R. 680
Date: 1970-03-20.
This seems to indicate they had a son and a daughter.
http://csc.lexum.org/en/1970/1970scr0-680/1970scr0-680.html
Also mentioned here as Brigadier Arthur Warwick Beament - 1898 - 1966 Chief of Canadian Section Headquarters. 1st Echelon 21 st Army Group England - North West Europe in 1944.
and probably his brother Brigadier George Edwin Beament
http://www.houseofnames.com/beament-family-crest
http://www.beament.com/our-history/beament-green-ottawa-law-firm-history.html
Sandra
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Might help with a time-frame - Arthur Beament aged 55 years of 410 Cloverdale Road. Rockcliffe. Ottawa and a wife Vivienne aged 50 years of the same address are on a four continents cruise - first class from New York 9 th February 1954 - 15 th March 1954 - SS Flandre.
Sandra
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The same couple are together a few years earlier on De Grasse out of New York - 9 March 1951.
2 other Beaments are listed above Geoffrey (Thomas) aged 47 years and Hester 44 years of 286 Bay Street. Orilla. Ontario
Sandra
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2194&dat=19660721&id=Y8gyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4-wFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4973,1465089
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Welcome to Rootschat
See where you got the 1924 ... https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/M3Z1-ZS6/p1
I imagine 1930 would have been the birth of the first child, but if married before then, not yet transcribed.
The odd rootschatter did marriage index lookups at one time, but I haven't seen anyone doing it lately for Ontario...( May have been more trouble than it was worth)
http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/archival-records/interloan/v-myear.aspx
I imagine he'd have married in Ottawa, but if a world traveler, may have also taken place elsewhere...
His cemetery listing says "Index only" which I think means he may be buried elsewhere?
http://ocfa.islandnet.com/ocfa-search.php
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* I made an error, this is HIS BROTHER* Calls himself a bachelor in 1939 on this dispute over taxes ( while away at war) says he married Feb 22 , 1941, in Oxford, England and had 2 children there before 1944
http://www.taxwiki.ca/Beament+v+MNR+%28SCC%29
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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The 1924 Passenger List JJ refers to above:-
Dorothy V D Wisbey. born about 1903 and aged 21 years and 6 months. Born Southsea. Occupation:- Actress.
Southampton to New York, arriving 22 September 1924 on the Leviathan.
Also ntravelling Violet Wisbey aged 43 yrs. Widowed. Nurse.
Nearest relative country whence came was Uncle John Absolon. 125 Honor Oak Park. London.
Destination was Uncle William Judd Green. 532 River Street. Hoboken. NJ
Sandra
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Arthur Beament. Born about 1898 and aged 35 years. Occupation:- Barrister.
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada to Liverpool, arriving 18 June 1933 on the Laurentic.
Going to Bank of Montreal. Waterloo Place. London.
and
Arthur Beament Born about 1898 and aged 39 years.
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada to london. England, arriving 14 June 1937 on the Ascania. Going to Bank of Montreal. 9 Waterloo Place. London. Intended place of future residence:- Other parts of the British Empire.
Arthur Warwick Bement. Born abt 1898 and aged 39 years.
Arrival Date: 24 May 1937
Port of Departure: St Hubert, Quebec to Newark Airport. New Jersey to Newark Airport, Newark, New Jersey for 2 days.
Sandra
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Looked into url submitted by kaz ...If his wife was Dorothy when he died, then she may have been the second wife not the first...
I don't see a marriage to Vivienne or anyone else in Oxford...or elsewhere? even miss spelled.
The children's names are even listed in there, but can't find her surname from a birth on FreeBMD either...that fits back to him...stumped on that
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Beechwood Cemetery Registers -
Arthur Warwick Beament. Born 1 st April 1898 Ottawa. Ontario.
Died 24 May 1966. Aged 68 years. Barrister.
95 Lakeway Drive. Rockcliffe.
Parent(s): Thomas Arthur Beament and Edith Louisa Belford
Sandra
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Mother Violet stayed in Hoboken. NJ but made numerous trips to England.
Violet Wisbey. Born about 1882 and aged 69 years
Port of Departure: Southampton, England to New York on the Ile De France. Arriving 23 October 1951.
Going to 410 Cloverdale Road. Rockcliffe. Canada.
If Dorothy was an actress could she have changed her name to Vivienne ........ ??? The age of the 2 look about the same. ???
Sandra
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Violet Wisbey. Born about 1881 London. England and aged 53 years,
Plymouth, England to New York 16 August 1934 on the Ile de France, arriving 16 August 1934.
Widowed. Occupation:- Manager. Nearest relative was Mrs L Papa, 38 Cavendish Road. Sutton. England. Had been in the USA since Sept 1924 to June 30th 1933. Daughter Castle Stevens. Hoboken. NJ (written in pencil looks like Favian Beisenberge) ???
This seems to be the last time Violet gives herself the title of Manager.
Have looked at the UK BMD's & thought Dorothy Violet was an only child ???
Sandra
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Hmmm, yes seems to be just the three of them, her husband Walter Wisbey ( don't see any marriage for them either, nor a death for Walter)
So was the Stevens daughter Dorothy with an acting name?
This lady, all gussied up and in the senate chamber, is called Mrs Warwick Beament...column one page 11/1935
So he was married before the war...and prior to 1935...and also went as Warwick
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=XnYtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jZgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6613,2281913&dq=arthur+warwick+beament&hl=en
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=pPMuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=5dsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7127,5101546&dq=warwick+beament&hl=en
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ixwvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=0tsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5738,4510970&dq=warwick+beament&hl=en
She may be still ailve in 1932
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=We8uAAAAIBAJ&sjid=RdsFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7268,6843034&dq=warwick+beament&hl=en
Prior to 1927, as here she has a young son ...Just newborn??
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=aDg0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=ivUIAAAAIBAJ&pg=7055,1794924&dq=warwick+beament&hl=en
So this must be that son
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cTRgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=h28NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3687,1788811&dq=arthur+beament&hl=en
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1925... Getting closer, but this groom's party shows her last name was Quesnal....so do we have 3 marriages? :P This one took place the next sat. which would have been Oct 24 1925
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=4VkuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=m9kFAAAAIBAJ&pg=7069,4488398&dq=warwick-beament&hl=en
ah, that's why it doesn't come up the announcements page is a mess....looks as though she's the daughter of the late Dr. Quesnel?
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=QBJtjoHflPwC&dat=19251026&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
So this marriage isn't coming up under Carleton 1925, so did it take place elsewhere? ::)
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maryc/carl1925p4.htm
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Thanks everybody - the response has been amazing.
My major problem is in establishing that the Dorothy Violet Wisbey who sailed on the 'Leviathan' with her mother Violet Wisbey and arrived New York 22 Sept 1924 is the same as she who married Arthur Warwick Beament date unknown. The Beament references on the internet place them in the Ottawa area of Canada - some distance from New York.
All the information is plausible but I feel that relying simply on the name Dorothy Violet Wisbey, although a fairly unusual combination, needs something more concrete such as a mother's or father's name on a marriage certificate or a newspaper report of the wedding - any ideas??
Tony Randall
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Looks like we are fresh out of ideas at the moment - still trying to piece together the story.
Sounds as if you probably knew most of this already ?
Hmmm, yes seems to be just the three of them, her husband Walter Wisbey ( don't see any marriage for them either, nor a death for Walter)
HI JJ
There is a marriage of Violet Absolon to Percy Francis Wisbey - Epsom - June 1902 - 2a 29
There is a family tree entry with Violet (Dorothy's) Mother described as Violet de Mansfield Absolon.
Another showing a death date for Percy 1909 - no source ???
Reply 6 - It was George Beament who married in Oxfordshire in March 1941 to Brenda Thoms. - 3a 4083.
Found 2 newspaper announcements for Beament children but to G E Beament and Brenda Thomas.
One in Cambridge Uk 20 Jan 1942 (Redg March 1942) and the other Leatherhead 4 May 1944 (Couldn't see that one redg)
Sandra
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My booboo on the tax page..How did I miss that? Duh...Thanks for pointing that out, Sandra. I also saw the marriage of a Percy & Violet but it didn't follow through, I guess because the husband died so young...
...have crossed it out then... perhaps Walter was a brother to Percy.
Anyway, Tony, the marriage must have been later than you thought and so not transcribed yet. We took a roundabout way to get to it, but now you see there was a previous marriage, and so the marriage to Dorothy may have taken place in the 1930s. There may be a date and place for their marriage mentioned in the newspapers, but I couldn't find it. Also it could have taken place elsewhere, if they were both globetrotters
Sandra, it is odd that the tree you found does not follow through with Dorothy's information ?
J.J.
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It would probably be worth your while to use this pay per view site for the Toronto Star archives, as the Beament family would probably have announced the wedding date and its whereabouts so you at least know the time frame and where it took place. http://pagesofthepast.ca/
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O.k. I have a name for the first wife, Eleanor as both children are spoken of as being with her in 1938
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yZEjAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dqgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2537,555881&dq=eleanore+beament&hl=en
1946 http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=3vsuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=G9wFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6086,1088400&dq=eleanore+beament&hl=en
Still spoken of in 1950 http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yM8vAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mdwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=901,4285861&dq=eleanore+beament&hl=en
As I see no divorce for the couple, your wedding likely took place late in life...
sometime after 1950, so you will find only newspaper information for the meantime...
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Great stuff JJ. Even more curious now - you have Eleanor (Presume Quesnal ?) up until 1958. But who is Vivienne appearing on the 2 cruises in 1952 and 1954. ??? Could it possibly be a middle name for Eleanor ???
Noticed that the daughter was an accomplished pianist.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fRMvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gdwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5506,6968237&dq=patricia+beament&hl=en
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=HjowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fdwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6563,6028847&dq=patricia+beament&hl=en
Sandra
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Eleanore Quesnel Beament burial not listed in Carleton
re: the daughter...I found this when looking to see who attended the children's weddings...but couldn't find either marriage in the news...I wonder if she may be the textile curator at this museum in Ohio, although she may have been in her 70s ;D Not that it helps Tony, http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2002/03/01/loc_fabric_artifacts.html
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Oh, just noticed...I only have Eleanor up to 1950...If you saw 1958 that was the OCR seeing the 0 as 8 when it first came up...I may have written 1958 first then changed it later...? So who knows what gives with the Dorothy Vivienne thing...I can't find anything more on either of them...
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Think you've done a brilliant job with what you have found. It isn't just as easy as finding a marriage, is it ? That's why it's nice to know or have an idea what has been found already, saves hours of work, trying to piece the story together.
One of your last links in reply 19 - the Ottawa Citizen was dated 14 Sept 1958
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yM8vAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mdwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=901,4285861&dq=eleanore+beament&hl=en
Sandra
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I know, it is the OCR ( optical character recognition) sees it as 1958...If you go to the actual image pages it is 1950 not 1958... :P Guess they should check their checker ;D
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http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/e/a/David-C-Beament/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0232.html
Seems to be a descendant - apologies if this has already been posted PM
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http://generals.dk/general/Beament/Arthur_Warwick/Canada.html
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/36310/supplements/50/page.pdf
Who's who in Canada: an illustrated biographical record of men and ...: Volume 42
books.google.ie
Charles Whately Parker, Barnet M. Greene - 1956 - Snippet view
ARTHUR WARWICK BEAMENT, CBE. VD, CD., yc CMHQ, England. May, 1940-Feb., 1941; OC "B" Gp. CR.U. (Colonel I, Feb., 1941-July. 1941; DAG, CM. ... Married Dorothy Vivienne Wisbey. daughter of the late Percy Wisbey, London, England. May 26 1938. Has two children one son and ond daughter by previous marriage.....
PM, again apologies if you have all that already.
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I find Arthur Warwick inBeechwood Burial Index, OT-96-08
If you contact the Ottawa History Society, they may have more information.
I didn't see Dorothy there.
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Yes vbain that was posted twice already....The poster's only interests were in the marriage details...which Pastmagic has posted, Thanks ...which still leaves some doubt as to whether or not is the correct lady although correct name for father...although people adopt names, and she was an actress.
I just do not get why the original wife would still call herself "Mrs." Beament...Mind you I suppose that is the media's name for her...and why there is no divorce to be found. ( husband a lawyer) >:(
Here is the paper from the next day
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=QBJtjoHflPwC&dat=19380527&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
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U.S. Social Security Death Index for Possible Eleonore Beament
Eleonore
last name: Beament
birth date: 15 September 1902
social security number: 116-32-2833
place of issuance: New York
zip code of last residence: XX953
death date: June 1977
estimated age at death: 75
If this is correct , divorce might have been in the US. In those days it was very usual for women to keep their married name after a divorce, - think of Wallis Simpson - especially if they had children. No sign of UK divorce in National Archives UK
Pm
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Great find on the marriage.
The SSDI record shows that Eleanor died in Canada.
Eleonore Beament. Born 15 September 1902 and died June 1977.
Last Residence: 953 (U.S. Consulate), Canada
SSN issued: New York (1958-1959)
She is listed as Marie Eleanore Beoment (correct spelling) in the Beechwood Cemetery Registers.
Not much more information - except she was cremated. (see cremation 2082 is all it said
Sandra
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Thanks for all the help.
Do you think that 'Dorothy Vivienne Wisbey' and 'Dorothy Violet Wisbey' are one and the same person? It may be that Violet thought that 'Vivienne' might be a little more sophisticated than the very English 'Violet'. I guess the only way to find out would be to see a copy of the marriage certificate - am I correct in thinking this is not possible in Canada? Dorothy would have been thirty-five in 1938 so there would be the chance of having children but this appears unlikely.
It is possible that she may have been married between 1924 and 1938 but, again, the marriage certificate would be be the only source I suppose. There does not seem to be a newspaper report on the marriage.
I guess we are coming to the end of the line!! Thanks for all your ideas
Tony Randall
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We can't speculate for you...It looks as good to us as it does to you... ;D That's why we need marriage certs... and never a guarantee that the full info will be on them either...
Marriages are only available to the public up to 1929, so in 9 years?
Marriage Registrations after 1930 are held by the Office of the Registrar General.
Contact:
Office of the Registrar General
189 Red River Road
P.O. Box 4600
Thunder Bay, Ontario
Canada P7B 6L8
Tel: 416-325-8305
1-800-461-2156 (toll-free in Ontario)
Good find, Sandra...
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Can't find the marriage in the UK, so maybe it is Canada. The Vivienne/Violet thing is not uncommon, plenty of people in the UK were called one name and christened another. With the amount of travelling her husband did it could have been anywhere, and sometimes people in that type of work got married in Consulates, so its hard to trace.
Can't find anything else, so good luck!
Pm
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Hi Tony
I've arrived at this post a little late but had only just spotted the Beament connection & whilst reading through the replies realised that Arthur Warwick is a descendant of one of my ancestors who had vanished from the census.
Just wondered if you had managed to discover if Dorothy Violet is the one who married Arthur Warwick Beament.
If I can help with the Beament's I'll be glad to, now I have to do more digging for myself. ;)
Maddie
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Hi Maddie
Have not managed to progress this marriage. Have to take a break from it for a while but if anything bubbles up I will let you know.
Tony Randall
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Hi Tony
OK, that's great, I am now researching the whole of this family back to my Joseph & Martha Beament. Quite a lot to discover I think. ;D
If I find anything to confirm Dorothy Violet I will let you know.
My thanks to all for opening this door for me. :)
Maddie