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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: GrandpaT on Sunday 30 October 11 17:51 GMT (UK)
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Looking for birth details for Alexander Thompson b 1847/50 Corthouse/Corehouse ? Nr Lanark. d 1910 Swindon.
He married (for second time) in Swindon in Jan 1879 and have traced him from that time on.
I have both his marriage and death Certs, but try as I might can't trace his origins. I spent a lot of time on Scotlands People but my big problem is I am not familiar with the geography of the area, and I quickly lost the plot!
If it helps he was shown as a Widower on the m cert, and fathers name also Alexander Thompson, Fathers occ shown as Farmer
Thanks in advance
Many thanks to all that assisted
T
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There is an estate called Corehouse near Lanark, though it's actually in Lesmahagow parish. I've looked on the IGI but there are no births/baptisms of an Alexander Thom(p)son in either Lanark or Lesmahagow between the dates you mentioned.
The 1851 census shows an Alexander Thomson, aged 1, born Lesmahagow living with his parents (father is also Alexander) and siblings in Kirkfieldbank, which is a village near Corehouse in Lesmahagow parish. However the father is a cotton handloom weaver, not a farmer. Do you know Alexander's mother's name? - the mother in the census seems to be called Rose or Rosa. (The family is also in the 1861 census, still in Kirkfieldbank, and the father still a weaver).
Lizci
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Hi Lizci
Thanks for that. Seems a credible possibility, and am not too fazed by the differing occupation. Didn't people exagerate Fathers occ in m certs?
No I don't unfortunately have any info on his Mother, so guess I have to keep digging.
Thanks
Terry
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1851 census has this with Alexander older and I can't follow the family in 1861
Alexr Thomson 52 born: Dolphinton, Lanark Occupation: Farmer Of 20 Acres
Doratha Thomson 48 born: Dunsyre, Lanark Occupation: Farmers Wife
Archibald Thomson 18
Alexr Thomson 16 born: Dunsyre, Lanark Occupation: Ag Lab
Elisabeth Thomson 14
Marrion Thomson 9
Address: Tweend Gill Carluke Lanarkshire
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Thanks for the info. As an aside how accurate generally are ages reported in the census?
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Not always accurate and transcription sites can cause more confusion
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Terry - here's another couple of census entries. Alexander Thomson, aged 9, father Alexander, born and living in Lesmahagow parish in 1851. This time the father is a blacksmith. There's no mother, just an 11-year old sister. The address has been transcribed as Dumhill or Damhill Smithy - I know the area but have never heard of that place so can't tell you where in Lesmahagow parish it is. They're still there in 1861 and 1871, and Alexander Jnr is also a blacksmith.
In 1851, Alexander Thompson, aged 1, born and living in Lanark, and described as grandson. The people he's with are called Ballantyne. However in 1861, he appears to be living with his parents in Dunbartonshire, and his father's called Samuel (he's a blacksmith too!). There are Ballantyne brothers-in-law in this household, so I think it's the same Alexander.
This links to quite a good map of Lanarkshire parishes:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/LKS/parishmap.html
Lizci
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Terry - here's another couple of census entries. Alexander Thomson, aged 9, father Alexander, born and living in Lesmahagow parish in 1851. This time the father is a blacksmith. There's no mother, just an 11-year old sister. The address has been transcribed as Dumhill or Damhill Smithy - I know the area but have never heard of that place so can't tell you where in Lesmahagow parish it is. They're still there in 1861 and 1871, and Alexander Jnr is also a blacksmith.
In 1851, Alexander Thompson, aged 1, born and living in Lanark, and described as grandson. The people he's with are called Ballantyne. However in 1861, he appears to be living with his parents in Dunbartonshire, and his father's called Samuel (he's a blacksmith too!). There are Ballantyne brothers-in-law in this household, so I think it's the same Alexander.
This links to quite a good map of Lanarkshire parishes:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/LKS/parishmap.html
Lizci
Lizci - that's really helpful thanks and the map is particularly useful
Will I ever find out when and where this man was born? - Ah well onward and upward!!
T
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/LKS/parishmap.html
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It would be helpful to find out where and when he 1st married
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Terry - here's another couple of census entries. Alexander Thomson, aged 9, father Alexander, born and living in Lesmahagow parish in 1851. This time the father is a blacksmith. There's no mother, just an 11-year old sister. The address has been transcribed as Dumhill or Damhill Smithy - I know the area but have never heard of that place so can't tell you where in Lesmahagow parish it is. They're still there in 1861 and 1871, and Alexander Jnr is also a blacksmith.
This links to quite a good map of Lanarkshire parishes:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/LKS/parishmap.html
Lizci
That could be him
1871 census has this
Alexander Thomson 67 head born: Lesmahagow, Lanark Occupation: Blacksmith Farmd Of 34 Acres
Alexander Thomson 28 son born: Lesmahagow, Lanark Occupation: Blacksmith Mester
Maron Thomson 32
Alexander Thomson 6
William M Thomson 23
Alexander Gray 15
Address: Damhill Smithy Lesmahagow
In later census records in England he is a Spring Maker which would fit with his Blacksmith background
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I agree its looking good.
Re your earlier post I think you're right - details of first marriage seem the next step. On his second marriage cert in England (Jan 1879) his age was given as 32, so I guess that narrows the gap a bit for searching.
Incidentally, whats the cheapest method to obtain copy birth certificates in Scotland - via SP?
T
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Terry -I think he is the one. I've just looked at my Ordnance Survey map, and Damhill Farm and Smithy is close to Corehouse Farm, so presumably was part of the Corehouse estate. The OS map is a modern one, so it must still exist.
The National Library of Scotland website has some very good maps so you might be able to find it on one. Look for Lanark, then look on the other side of the Clyde (which is Lesmahagow parish) and you should see Corehouse. I think it's roughly south from Kirkfieldbank (to the right on the map!!).
Lizci
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Hi All
Following the family that Lizci has potentially found, someone has an A/try tree for this Alexander. Not clear on sources as they are not shown/given, but this is the line that they have:
Alexander Thomson Snr = Elizabeth Wiseman
Son Alexander born 2 May 1841 at Damhill Smithy. Three marriages ::) given for him:
Mary Meikle on 23 May 1863
Jane Gladstone in 1868
Rosa in 1877
Not sure on this at all (the above first two marriages) as sometimes people put things down on these trees in 'pencil' but interesting as Lizci has found that they have made the same connection from Alexander Snr to Rosa for this Alexander.
The only only thing is that the age difference for this Alexander Jnr is anywhere between 6-12 years younger on later censuses. Not impossible but less common - where 2/3 years are perfectly normal as a variation.
Monica
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There is a possible marriage showing for an Alexander T and Mary Meikle in 1863. IGI entries for children show two sons, Alexander b. 1864 and a William b. 1867. SP shows a death for a Mary Meikle/Thomson in 1867 in Lesmahagow.
The 1871 census entry that Sancti posted earlier:
1871 census has this
Alexander Thomson 67 head born: Lesmahagow, Lanark Occupation: Blacksmith Farmd Of 34 Acres
Alexander Thomson 28 son born: Lesmahagow, Lanark Occupation: Blacksmith Mester
Maron Thomson 32
Alexander Thomson 6
William M Thomson 23...age mistranscribed as born in 1867 - the M stands for Meikle.
Alexander Gray 15
Address: Damhill Smithy Lesmahagow
The original image would confirm Alexander Jnr's marital status which more than likely would be a widower with wife Mary's death in 1867 (we can probably ignore for now that possible marriage to a Jane Gladstone in 1868...can't see any trace of it :-\).
Guess the questions I would have now are: with an established occupation as a blacksmith based at the Damhill Smithy for many years,how did he end up in Swindon doing something completely different (also shows as a mechanic on his MC to Rosa?) and also, what happened to the two sons from this first marriage who don't show with him and Rosa in later years?
Monica
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This is Alexander and new wife Rosa in 1881 (Terry, sure you have this but just helps others for background):
Alex Thompson 36, spring maker b. Scotland
Rosa F. Thompson 20 b. Wroughton, Wiltshire
Address: 2 Andover Street, Swindon
Some children given for them include:
Stewart Richard b. 1882
Gilbert Samuel b. 1891
Robert b. 1895
John b. 1898
The two boys look to be still with their grandfather:
Alexander Thomson 77, Farmer 50 Acres Arable
Marrion Thomson 35, daughter
Alexander Thomson 16, grandson
William M Thomson 13, grandson
Helen Sharp 17, servant
Address: Damhill Smithy
Monica
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One possible double check that you could do...
William Meikle Thomson married Ellen Neilson in 1893. It may be that you get some clues from what details are included for his father Alexander on William's marriage certificate (I am thinking here of an occupation that may match what you have in Swindon for him).
This is William and young famiy in 1901:
William M Thomson 33, gamekeeper domestic b. Lesmahagow
Ellen Thomson 30
Alexander M Thomson 7
Gracie Thomson 6
Deans Neilson Thomson 4
Address: Gamekeepers House Corehouse, Lesmahagow
This is an example of what is included on Scottish marriage certs post 1855 www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&403
Monica
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The 1841 Census shows Alexander as 1 month old living at Damhill Smithy (wrongly transcribed as Camhill) with parents Alexr and Elizabeth and siblings Samuel 15, Robert 11, Agnes 8, Marion 7, Elizabeth 5 and Janet 2. Parents' ages given as 35 but in 1841 Census ages of adults were "rounded down" to nearest 5 years so not necessarily accurate!
IGI shows 2 marriage entries for Alexander Thomson and Elisabeth Wiseman - 13 Mar 1824 in Avondale parish (Strathaven area) and About 14 Mar 1824 in Douglas parish. This suggests one partner came from each parish, so the marriage was entered in both registers.
There are a number of children born to this couple - a mixture of extracted baptism dates (from Old Parish Registers) and submitted birth dates (by members of LDS):-
Samuel - born 19 Feb 1825, Douglas
Lilias - baptized 15 April 1827, Douglas
Agnes - baptized 28 Oct 1832, Lesmahagow
Marion - baptized 21 Sept 1834, Lesmahagow
Elizabeth - baptized 14 Aug 1836, Lesmahagow
Janet - baptized 19 May 1839, Lesmahagow
Alexander - born 02 May 1841, Lesmahagow
The 1841 Census was carried out on 07 June, so that would fit in with Alexander being one month old.
I live just a few miles from Damhill (I know the farms surrounding it, but had never heard of Damhill). When I get a chance I will drive over and see what's there.
Lizci
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Lizci, when you do get a chance to have a wonder, this might help to orientate regarding locations. From 1881, the enumerator's walk for District 18 see http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LANARK/1999-07/0931725519
Monica :)
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Click the map to zoom in
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/284125
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MonicaL
I will check out M cert of William Meikle Thomson for details of Alexander, but I don't share yourdoubts about differing occupations.On the contrary springmaking is very much a smithy/forging occupation and now seems to me such a natural transition. What was always niggling away in the back of my mind was how he went from a farming background to engineering which was a big leap of faith.
As to the term Mechanic on his marriage cert, I think of that as no more than a generic term used to describe engineering, maybe even given to impress!
For interest I attach a pic of the Springmaking shop in GWR Swindon where he worked
Lizci - I really appreciate your offering to visit Damhill, I so want it to be close to Corehouse.
We seem to be nearing our goal
T
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Great photo...and see 100% what you mean.
Monica
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According to the map it is adjacent to Corehouse Farm and looks to be across the road from it
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Just checked William Meikle Thomson mar cert for Alexander occ details and came up trumps!! Alexander occupation shown as Journeyman Engineer.
Euraka seems we are all but there!
T
Many thanks to all that assisted
T
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Great news!
Monica
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Terry - I have managed to take a couple of photos of the Damhill Smithy, or Smiddy (as we say in Scotland!). I can't promise that it is the same building that was there in 1841, but it is old (unused now), and if a replacement building I would think would have been built on the same spot as the original ... maybe the old building was just "shored up". I also have some other information which I got from someone living nearby, which I'll send you in a PM.
Monica - thanks for the enumerator's list ... that'll come in very handy for lots of future searching.
Lizci
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Hi GrandpaT
Just found your post today. Your Alexander Thomson is my Great Great Grandfather. He had an illegitimate son, James Gladstone Thomson born 1872, with Jane Gladstone. She was working as a servant at a farm just down the road from the Damhill Smithy. I have also been in contact with another of his descendants through his legitimate son Alexander Thomson married to Mary Heggison. I live in Australia now having moved here from Scotland in 1978. The other descendant was born in Australia and it is through her mother that the Scottish connection comes from.
Funnily enough we only just recently found out that when he left Scotland he moved to Swindon and that he was working as a spring maker for the railway and had married Rosa and had children - four boys. We had both been searching for him for ages and couldn't find out where he had disappeared to.
How are you related to Alexander?
I have not really used this site before so I am not sure how to go about finding out what information you already have and what you would like to know about Alexander. However, it is getting quite late here and I will need to get back to you tomorrow.
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Hi
That's quite a development for me given that a couple of weeks ago I was struggling to identify him from all but the sketchiest information. Had a lot of the later detail because it was in living memory.
This Alexander Thomson (and as you probably already know seems there were several) was my Great Grandfather too!.
Best way to catch up is via PM /email - I will PM you
T
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LJMcL, Welcome to RootsChat :)
T, WOW!
Monica
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Hi - my name is Alan Thomson and I am descended from Alexander Thomson, born in 1841. My Father has done a fair bit if research into his past (he regularly visited his Grandfather William Thomson in Corehouse Estate (William was one of Alexander's 2 sons)).
I too can see the trail where Alexander moved south to Swindon and married Rosa. One of their sons (Robert) is buried near where I live in a Commonwealth War Grave. I'm looking for any info on Alexander and happy to pass on anything I have. Please get in touch.