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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hertfordshire Lookup Requests => Hertfordshire => England => Herts Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cappy on Friday 28 October 11 11:59 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have found David Ayling on a family search record, bap/chr 25 Jan 1749, father Jesse, at Hemel Hemstead. Just wondered if there would be anymore info on the actual record if anyone has access to this. Also anything on Jesse. Thank you as it is difficult for me to visit the parishes as I live in France.
Cappy
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Hi Cappy,
Found the parish record for the baptism - 25Jan1749 David son of Jesse AYLING a Trooper. In present day terms the date would be 1750 as the new year at that time did not start until April.
Regards ... Peter
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Thank you for that Peter,
Cappy
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David Ayling bapt 25 Jan 1749 Hemel Hempstead, Hertford, son of Jesse Ayling
David's father Jesse may have been born in Buriton, Hampshire in 1702 to a father Jesse. David ends up in nearby Alton, Hampshire. He marries Elizabeth Winkworth (1744-1828) there in 1770 and their first child Elizabeth in 1771. He was a "hollow turner" (i.e. maker of wood bowls, drinking vessels, etc). He and his family hop over to Petersfield Hampshire for a time where his son David dies there in 1777. David Sr. dies in Alton in 1828. Some of his descendants end up back in Hertfordshire in the mid/late 1800's.
Note also the marriage preceding David's birth:
Jesse Ayling m Sarah Sanders 16 Oct 1748 St Giles, Northamptonshire
This might have been a second marriage for Jess because there does seem to be some baptisms for Jess in Buriton for a William and Elizabeth in 1726 and 1730 respectively.
It is an interesting family line that branches off into two very large family trees via David's two surviving sons, James (B. 1774) and George (1782-1831). The former includes Denny Ayling who won the Academy Award for special effects in the the movie Alien. The latter family line includes a great-granddaughter Rosa Collins who married a completely unrelated Edmund Ayling whose own line goes back to Greatham, Sussex.
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Just to add from the original Marriage Entry.
Northampton St. Giles
Jefse Ayling and Sarah Sanders both of this town were married by Lic. Oct 16 1748.
Sandy
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There are also 1 child baptised at St. Giles.
Northampton St. Giles
Sarah daughter of Jefse Ayling and Sarah his wife May 13 1754
Sandy
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Interesting. Thanks. Implies that this may be a different Jesse and Sarah or that they moved back and forth. I understand that on David's baptism record it apparently says father Jesse was a "trooper". I haven't seen the original but this military role might explain the movement.
On a related note, I have attempted to capture some of the AYLING family lines coming out of Petersfield, Hampshire from the inception of parish record keeping, including David Ayling. See "John Ayling (B. abt 1540) of Petersfield Hampshire & descendants Family Tree" on ancestry.com. It is a public tree. The two main AYLING lines to the present descend from brothers Thomas (B. 1594) and William (B 1598) of Petersfield. Some guess work here, obviously, but tries to be consistent with movement across Hampshire parishes over time. See slideshow post from Oct 16/16 on Facebook page called "Ayling Family History" which shows parish inhabitants from 1540 to 1770 at 30 year intervals.
Chris
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Thank you Chris for all the information, i will certainly look at the Facebook page as I want to learn all I can about the Aylings. (This was my Mother's maiden name.)
I still need to try and confirm that David's father Jesse is the one from Buriton and was as you say because he was in the military he may have been living in Hertfordshire at the time of David's birth.
Would be grateful for anything else you find,
Sharon
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The key, I think, for this family line is the given name "Jesse". It is a somewhat unusual name for the period. Using the parish transcriptions from the Hampshire Genealogical Society, I find only 16 references to the first name "Jesse" in all of Hampshire between 1537-1659 for ALL surnames --one of these being a Jess born about 1616 in East Meon, son of Thomas Aylline. This surname is likely a derivation of the surname AYLING. A John Aylline has two girls baptized in East Meon at about the same time.
There are only 37 "Jesse" for all of Hampshire between 1660-1751 for ALL surnames --only two of which is for an AYLING: Jesse, son of Jess, in Buriton in 1702. There is also Jesse and Margaret having a son William baptized in Petersfield in 26 Apr 1726. They also have a daughter Elizabeth in 1730. I suspect this Jess father is the Jess baptized in Buriton in 1702. This might have been a first marriage with Margaret. Then a second marriage to Sarah in Northhampshire with David Ayling (B. 1749) as their child. So I think it might be reasonable to assume that this unique name is passed down from father to son. Obviously, this is not 100% certain; a completely separate Ayling family might have heard the name and adopted it into their line, but the name is retained with Jesse's descendants right down to the present. This implies that the same "ownership" of the given name carried back into generations before Jesse (B. 1749). As noted above, on that basis I built that Jesse Ayling tree and incorporated it into the larger tree "John Ayling (B. abt 1540) of Petersfield Hampshire & descendants Family Tree" on ancestry.com.
If you are interested you can "check my math" via the all Hampshire parish transcriptions for AYLING (and derivations) that I have posted at http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.ayling/mb.ashx. I believe these message boards are accessible to anyone even if not an ancestry.com member. They come up in google searches, for example.
Another avenue to explore might be military movements/stations/regiments in Hertfordshire and Hampshire. I did have a quick look on the internet via various military records for Hertfordshire, but didn't come up with Jesse.
There are a number of descendants working this line. I will certainly let you know if I or they come up with anything further to confirm or change my guesses. I should say that David Ayling is not my direct ancestor. My folks were in the Stedham/Woolbeding area at the start of parish record keeping in the 1540's, but some of those folks owned land in Hampshire and some moved there in the 1600's (eg. John Ayling, founder of the Ayling clan of Liss, descends from John Aylyng D. 1546 of Terwick who, along with his brother Richard Ayling D. 1545, a burgess of Midhurst, founded the Ayling clan of Stedham/Woolbeding, Sussex).
I think the northwest Sussex and north east Hampshire lines all come together in Bramshott and Petersfield pre-record keeping. For example, the Court of Common Pleas has a John and Philip Aylyng of Bramshott suing for trespass a Richard Aylyng of Bramshott and a John Ayling of Terwick in 1516.The "trunk" of the tree probably goes back centuries before that. DNA would probably be the only way to confirm links. However, there was likely constant movement across the county lines. For example, the miller of Stedham, Sussex was a Michael Aylyng in 1460, so it is not a straigh line movement from Hampshire to Sussex.
My guess is that our ancestors were originally living on or around Hayling Island in Hampshire. The Island was reduced in size over the centuries due to climate change and erosion. Those living near there may have had to re-locate and used that geographical feature as a ancestral memory when providing surnames in the late 1200's. "I am John of Haying". The "H" could have been dropped due to local dialect. I go into this idea in more detail at http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.ayling/164/mb.ashx.
Chris Ayling
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Pro
The Hertfordshire baptisms name and date of birth of January 1749 seem about right given his marriage in September 1770 in Alton. Also the name Jesse is used in this Ayling family of Hampshire over many generations and is a somewhat unique.
Also while David's two sons, James (B. 1774) and George (1782-1831) remain in Alton, James' son, Jesse (1801-1888), is living in Berkhamstead, Hertfordshire in the 1851 census. Jesse's oldest daughter Sarah Jesse Ayling is said to be born there in 1840, so Jesse would have been living in Hertfordshire from at least that time. Jesse marries Jemimma Attfield in Somerset in 1831, so we might assume he had left Alton even before 1831. It could be a simple coincidence that Jesse (1808-1888) chose to move to Hertfordshire. Jesse, his alleged grandfather would probably have been deceased by 1780, but there could have been some kind of familial link maintained to that area, perhaps via the maternal line.
Cons:
Hertfordshire seems to be too far north (over two counties) from Hampshire to be right. It could be that father Jesse of Hertfordshire was born there. There is a John & Elizabeth Ayling in Sandon, Hertforshire having a son Thomas in 1750, and daughters Elizabeth in 1753 and Sarah in 1757. Jesse, father of the David baptized in 1749, could be a brother and from a completely separate Ayling family living there with no obvious links to Hampshire. The "Jesse" name could be just coincidental.
Further support for a separate family line is that there are earlier records of AYLINGs in Hertfordshire:
England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980
Birth, Marriage & Death
Name: Mathew Ayling
Father: Matthew Ayling
Baptism: 24 Aug 1633 - Barley, Hertfordshire, England
Name: Susana Ayling
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 14 Jun 1668
Baptism Date: 5 Jul 1668
Baptism Place: Aldenham,Hertford,England
Father: Rich. Ayling
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 1040851, 1040852
Name: Mary Ayling
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 1 Dec 1735
Baptism Place: Great Amwell,Hertford,England
Father: John Ayling
Mother: Sarah
FHL Film Number: 991303
A reference in the 1871 census to a Richard Ayling born about 1800 in Cradeley, Hertfordshire.
The above are using the ancestry.com search engines. There are possible variations of "Ayling" mixed in with the above such as Eeyling and Aling.
Perhaps the answer is that David was born in Buriton or Petersfield and his baptism was not recorded.
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I should add that if anyone interested in this line is not using ancestry.com to view the ree mentioned above, I'm happy to e-mail you a .GED file of the tree that you can import into whatever tree program you use. Either message me here --or better yet message me via "Ayling Family History" on Facebook.
Chris Ayling
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I just found another thread that referenced James (B. 1774) in a 1841 census for Herts. I can't find this reference in the ancestry.com search engines, so have asked the original poster if she can provide a copy or URL to the doc. If correct, this perhaps makes the connection from Hants to Herts a bit stronger. I will post back here if I find anything.
Chris Ayling
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Doesn't come up in ancestry.com search but does come up on ancestry.co.uk:
Name:
James Ayling
Age:
60
Estimated birth year:
abt 1781
Gender:
Male
Civil Parish:
Great Berkhampstead
Hundred:
Dacorum
County/Island:
Hertfordshire
Country:
England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district:
Berkhampstead
Sub-registration district:
Berkhampstead
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:
440
Book:
3
Folio:
13
Page Number:
20
Household Members:
Name
Age
James Ayling 60
Charlotte Ayling 40
Mary Isaac Ayling 15
The 1841 census does not distinguish family status or place of birth. They are all listed as turners. James does not seem to appear in 1851 census. Given his age, likely deceased. I find no burial record for him in Hertsfordshire of Hampshire. Who is Charlotte? Born around 1800. She is likely his daughter, given her age, but no baptism record in Alton, Hampshire for her. Who is Mary Issac (which is James' wife Mary maiden name) Ayling? I thought she might be his granddaughter via son Issac 1806-1886, but his family, including Mary, is captured in the 1841 census for Buckinghamshire. So Mary would have to be the daughter of one of James sons: William, David (B. 1796) of George (B. 1802) --all in Alton, Hampshire.
This may be Charlotte from the 1851 census:
Name:
Charlotte Ayling
Age:
53
Estimated birth year:
abt 1798
Relation:
Visitor
Gender:
Female
Where born:
Alton, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish:
St Pancras
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
County/Island:
Middlesex
Country:
England
Registration district:
Pancras
Sub-registration district:
Kentish Town
Household schedule number:
65
Piece:
1498
Folio:
522
Page Number:
15
Household Members:
Henry Budd 40
Sarah Budd 33
William Budd 3
Mary Ann Budd 1
Charlotte Ayling 53
Henry Pratt 21
Richard Patrick 33
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Thank you Chris for looking into this, I have presumed that my 'David' is the one born in Hertfordshire, but of course he could come from Hampshire but no birth record.
I look forward to any information you find,
Sharon
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Its interesting that Charlotte Ayling was living in Kentish Town in 1851, as my great great Grandfather born in Alton in 1831, living in Berhamstead in 1851, was married and living in St Pancras in 1858 which is very near to Kentish Town.
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And I am now wondering if the person above who saw the original baptism for David and thought he father's occupation was "trooper"....mis-read it for "turner". This is a trade that is consistent for David and James and perhaps other descendants. If so was there something that would have required travel as a "turner of wood vessels, bowls, etc to travel from Hertfordshire to Hampshire and back over generations? But I think with son, James living in Hertfordshire, this strengthens the idea that father David was born in Hertfordshire to Jesse. I don't think this discounts Jesse originally coming from Hampshire. I'll keep chipping away.
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David's father was in fact a "trooper":
UK, Royal Hospital Chelsea Pensioner Admissions and Discharges, 1715-1925
Name Jesse Ayling
Pension Admission or Examination Age 52
Birth Year abt 1702
Birth Place Petersfield
Pension Admission or Examination Date 27 Feb 1754
Regiment Royl. Regt. of Horse Gds.
Jesse was actually baptized in Buriton, Hampshire in 1702. His father was Jesse, deceased in 1710. Jesse Sr. was a mason. He left a Will (I have a copy) where he bequeaths to wife Rachel and sons Thomas and Jesse, both under 25 years. He married Rachel in Kirdford, Sussex in 1696. Thomas was baptized in 1697 in Buriton.
Jesse (B. 1702) married twice. First to Margaret Standford at St. Martins in Chichester, Sussex on May 28, 1723. His name was recorded as "Aylwin" in error. The interchangeability of Ayling and Aylwin happens a lot in the pre mid 1700 period but usually settles out to Ayling. Jesse then married Sarah Sanders in Northampshire in 1748. Son David was born in Hertfordshire in 1749. Jess was obviously moving around as part of his occupation in the military.
Jesse (D. 1710) was probably born somewhere around 1670. I haven't found his birth record yet. I am presently working through the Hampshire records checking all variation of the "Ayling"
name. There was a a Jesse Ayling born to Thomas at nearby East Meon in 1616. This may be Jess (D. 1710) grandfather.
With some guesswork I have this line going back to the 1500's. See "John Ayling (B. abt 1540) of Petersfield Hampshire & descendants Family Tree" on ancestry.com. It's a very large tree in that many of these folks ended up moving to Worthing, Sussex in the 19th century where the intermarried with other Ayling family groups, often via maternal lines so they probably would not have been aware of their surname ancestors.
I suspect these lines are linked up with the Aylings further south in Portsea, etc (e.g. Sir William Bock Ayling) but I have yet to make the definitive link.
These family lines probably link up to mine which runs through John Aylyng of Bramshott, Hampshire (D. 1511) who was likely the Reeve of Droxford Manor in the late 1400's. However, the link obviously pre-dates parish record keeping.
Chris Ayling
Canada
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Jesse Ayling (1665-1710) has a stone memorial within St. Mary's in Buriton, Hampshire. It says:
"Near this place
lies interr'd the body
of Jesse Ayling
of this parish Mason
who died Decem 17 1710
aged 45
Also W. Hall who died
Sep 15 1751 Aged 60".
Jesse married Rachel Collins in Kirdford, Sussex in 1696. William Hall may have been Jesse's mason apprentice. When Jesse died Rachel then married William. She died in 1757. Her Buriton burials says : 'Widow Hall of Weston 15/3/1757.' She likely did the memorial for both.
Jesse's father is a guess (because the Buriton parish records being in the late 1690's), but there is a John Ayling paying hearth taxes in Buriton in 1665. John's father was likely Jesse Aylline (B. 1616) of East Meon.
See "John Ayling (B. abt 1540) of Petersfield Hampshire & descendants Family Tree" on ancestry.com for the entire line back to the 1500's in Petersfield, Hampshire and the many intermarriage lines going to the present.
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Not sure if this query is still ongoing or if my input will help. In my tree there is an Annie MM Ayling b.1894 (not entirely sure where but could be Chichester) who married Albert Bettesworth (b.1890) in the first quarter of 1915 in Chichester. Albert was my father's half-brother (very big family from Hayling Island) If you'd like to join the Bettesworth Family Information on Facebook you'll find photos and relations of this couple.
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In my tree there is an Annie MM Ayling b.1894 (not entirely sure where but could be Chichester)
AYLING, ANNIE MAUDE MARIAN
Mother's maiden surname: PRATT
GRO Reference: 1894 S Quarter in DROXFORD Volume 02C Page 139
1901 has birthplace as Friern Barnet.
Debra :)
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The entire line is on my Ancestry tree called "Aylings of Walberton, Sussex Family Tree". Annie's parents were Henry "Harry" Thomas Ayling (1861-1931) and Kate Pratt. The lines can be reliably traced via the parish records to William Ayling, deceased in Yapton in 1809. He was probably born around the 1740's (based on the longevity of his descendants). Harry's father was William Ayling, born 1822 in Walberton, West Sussex.
While we aren't sure exactly how all Aylings connect, YDNA testing of 11 Ayling men (so far) with ancestors in Iping, Stedham, Lodsworth, Graffham, Woolavington (now called East Lavington), South Stoke, Houghton and Walberton to at least the 1700's confirm we all descend from the same man. I believe he was Thomas Aylyng, noted in a tax document for Easebourne in 1379. His father was William Aylyng, whom I believe was the grandson of Richard Aylyng, one of the first men to record that surname in the 1296 Tax Subsidy for Heyshott, West Sussex.
The surname derives from Hayling Island (not aetheling as I have seen expressed via other web sites). YDNA testing confirms were are Anglo-Saxon in origin, and Hayling Island is presumably where we settled post Roman period. The Island eroded significantly in the 1000AD or so period, so we can imagine Ayling groups migrating up into Hampshire and West Sussex and retaining a memory of their origins. In fact the 1296 Subsidy for West Sussex includes men listed as "de Hayling" living in the same areas where the Aylings eventually settle --the bulls-eye center of their homelands being the parishes around Easebourne. The Haylyng surname disappears and only Ayling (and Aylwin) remain.
Bettesworth is a strong West Sussex name with many family groups. There are some earlier marriages of Ayling to Bettesworth, notably via William Ayling (1605-1671) whose family held Ash House in Stedham for over 200 years.
There is no near-term connection between the Ayling of Petersfield, Hampshire (of which David Ayling on this message string refers) within parish record keeping timeframes. The ancestor-in-common of the West Sussex and Hampshire groups probably resides in the 1300's.
Check out aylinghistory.net
Also if you are on Facebook "Ayling & Aylwin Family History group".
Cheers,
Chris Ayling, Canada
(descendant of William Ayling D. 1690 of Woolavington)