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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: joshuadwilliams on Wednesday 26 October 11 18:19 BST (UK)
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My great x2 grandfather was David Thomas born about 1872 in Llanelly, from 1901 onwards he lived in Abergwynfi, Glam. His last child was born in 1918, and I know he committed suicide, but im not sure when, it could be from this time onwards into the 1920s and possibly the 1930s. So would anyone know if this kind of event would be in a newspaper, and if so, which newspaper would have covered the area during this time, and where would these papers be kept?
Regards, Josh.
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Hi there Josh, very likely to be in a paper, but I'm not sure which one exactly. Abergwynfi is under Neath Port Talbot, so there may be details in Swansea archives, but you are also possibly going to find reports in the papers in the Bridgend records offices as they cover a lot of Glamorgan - probably depends where you live.
No idea where he may have been buried at all? May be easier to find a burial record than a death cert with that name.
Another question is whether you have the death certificate for his wife, of a marriage certificate for any of his children - one may mention that he was deceased or that his wife was a widow at the time of her death - would help you scale down the dates a bit anyway.
I'm in Bridgend tomorrow doing some digging of my own, so if I get a chance, I'll keep an eye out. As morbid as it sounds, any idea of the method of suicide? It may be mentioned in a headline so it would be easy to spot and disregard non-matches
Chris
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Hi chris, well the nearest cemetery to Abergwynfi would be Cymmer, so perhaps that would be the best bet to find if he was buried there.
And in answer to your 2nd question, no I do not have a death certificate for his wife (mary ann thomas), its such a common name and too many records come up for the BMDs, so without a narrower date it'd be a lot of money. As with a marriage certificate, i have as of yet, not ordered one, so another route to follow there to help with the dating.
And the only other piece of information i could give you, is that he had 11 children and the story is that he could not afford to look after them or something along those lines, im not too sure how he did it though.
Regards, Josh.
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Hi Josh,
Most common method seems to have been throat cutting:-(
I guess that cut-throat razors would have been readily available as it were...
My late Uncle committed suicide by cutting his throat in Swansea in 1930, and it was certainly in the papers then.
Worth having a look through 'The South Wales Post' I would have thought.
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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I'll have a look at the burial records for this area and see if any possible matches come back.
Romilly, suspect you're right as have seen a lot of that type around that time - very odd.
Will see if I can locate anythng
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Hello :)
If you think that David was still living at the same address as he was in 1911, you may be able to get access to Coroner's records at West Glamorgan Archives:
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=33275
but you will need to narrow down the year of search.
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hello :)
If you think that David was still living at the same address as he was in 1911, you may be able to get access to Coroner's records at West Glamorgan Archives:
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=33275
but you will need to narrow down the year of search.
Kind Regards
Morgan
Sadly, a lot of the Coroner's Records for Swansea were destroyed after flooding in the 1970's:-(
I know this because I tried to trace the ones concerning my late Uncle, - after reading about the Inquest in 'The South Wales Post.
Romilly.'
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I visit Swansea Archives every Tuesday afternoon.
I do know that the Library holds newspapers from 1906 onwards and the Archives office have the newspapers on film reel before 1906
PM me if you need a lookup at the Library as that is in the same building.
Regards
Jim
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Oh right, thankyou everyone, I guess my next avenue is to narrow down the year to which he died.
Cutting your own throat seems a nasty way to end it :o
Regards, Josh
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Been down Bridgend records office today, but was short on time so only managed to check 1918 but with no result. I may be getting down there again for a Saturday and will see if I can pick anything else up for you if no-one replies by then
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Been down Bridgend records office today, but was short on time so only managed to check 1918 but with no result. I may be getting down there again for a Saturday and will see if I can pick anything else up for you if no-one replies by then
Thankyou halfasheep, look forward to seeing if you find anything.
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Just a thought, but you could try ordering death certificates from Neath district for David Thomas in the right age range, with Abergwynfi address.
This thread helps you to speed up freebmd searches:-
Speed up FreeBMD searches:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,460492.0.html
Kind Regards
Morgan
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There are some Newspaper Links on GENUKI, - might be worth a look?
I can't see anything relating to your David Thomas, - but these extracts are from 1894, 1926 and 1936 I think...so might be worth checking other years too.
See:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0g4x/
Romilly.
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I am researching for you on Tuesday next
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Is this your David Thomas?
A tragedy of unemployment was revealed at the inquest conducted on Saturday by Mr. B. Edward HOWE on David THOMAS, 62, builder's labourer, of Scotch-street, Abergwynfi, who was found hanging by some copper wire in an outhouse at the back of the house on Thursday morning. The widow, Mary Ann THOMAS, said her husband had not worked since Wednesday week, and could get a turn only now and again.He went out on Wednesday to see the pit manager, but failed to get work, and on his return told her, " It is very hard; I am out all day and can't get work " The question of work was on his mind, and he was happy when working. He appeared to be a little depressed the day before. She had noticed that for the past few weeks he had been a little quiet and strange. A verdict of "Suicide whilst of unsound mind" was returned.
This was taken from:
Western Mail Monday May 19th 1924.
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Yes thats the man! Thankyou welsh angel! Thankyou :D solved a big mystery for me there!
regards, Joshua
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Is this your David Thomas?
A tragedy of unemployment was revealed at the inquest conducted on Saturday by Mr. B. Edward HOWE on David THOMAS, 62, builder's labourer, of Scotch-street, Abergwynfi, who was found hanging by some copper wire in an outhouse at the back of the house on Thursday morning. The widow, Mary Ann THOMAS, said her husband had not worked since Wednesday week, and could get a turn only now and again.He went out on Wednesday to see the pit manager, but failed to get work, and on his return told her, " It is very hard; I am out all day and can't get work " The question of work was on his mind, and he was happy when working. He appeared to be a little depressed the day before. She had noticed that for the past few weeks he had been a little quiet and strange. A verdict of "Suicide whilst of unsound mind" was returned.
This was taken from:
Western Mail Monday May 19th 1924.
Oh dear...what a terribly sad story:-(((
So sorry to read this :o :o :o (But glad that you have resolved this issue Joshua). Possibly you could look for a burial now?
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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Are you living locally Joshua? I'm hoping to get down the reference library on Saturday and would be happy to print a copy of the report off and drop it down to you.
There's no record of his burial in Maesteg, but I'll have a nose through the other local burial records when I'm down there too
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Is this your David Thomas?
A tragedy of unemployment was revealed at the inquest conducted on Saturday by Mr. B. Edward HOWE on David THOMAS, 62, builder's labourer, of Scotch-street, Abergwynfi, who was found hanging by some copper wire in an outhouse at the back of the house on Thursday morning. The widow, Mary Ann THOMAS, said her husband had not worked since Wednesday week, and could get a turn only now and again.He went out on Wednesday to see the pit manager, but failed to get work, and on his return told her, " It is very hard; I am out all day and can't get work " The question of work was on his mind, and he was happy when working. He appeared to be a little depressed the day before. She had noticed that for the past few weeks he had been a little quiet and strange. A verdict of "Suicide whilst of unsound mind" was returned.
This was taken from:
Western Mail Monday May 19th 1924.
Btw welsh - angel,
Is the 'Western Mail' available on-line?
Cheers, Romilly.
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@halfasheep, yes i do live very local, i live at blaengwynfi and croeserw, so that would be great, thankyou.
@romilly, yes it is quite a sad story, but im glad to get to the bottom of it, my next point will be to look for his grave, possibly at Cymer cemetry, so when this rain eases up, ill pop down, and hopefully, his wife will be buried in the same plot so that i can find the roundabout date when she died
Thanks, Joshua
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Hi Again Joshua,
Should you want to get a copy of the Death Cert, - here are the references:
Deaths Mar 1924
Thomas David, 62yrs, Swansea, Volume:11a Page:1368
Let us know how you get on with finding the burial. (Cwmgelli Cemetary couldn't have been more helpful when I was trying to locate my late Uncle's plot. I phoned them and they were able to tell me straight away where he was, plot number and location etc. They even sent me a map with the exact location marked; which helped no end when I visited a few years back).
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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No worries Joshua - I'll see what I can find and PM you on the weekend
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Sorry for the late response, but for some reason I couldn't post a reply. Anyway, I am happy that I could have been of help.
I am not aware of the Western Mail archives being on line, but that's not to say it's not.
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Hi, I am curious as to why someone who died in Abergwynfi, would be registered in Swansea. I have a feeling that this David Thoms isn't the David Thomas who died in Abergwynfi. A death is registered in the district the death took place.
I have looked in the Neath district for a David Thomas, who would have been born in 1862, if he was 62 when he died, in 1924. There doesn't appear to be one, unless he had a second name. There is a David Thomas, born in 1862, and died in the April-June quarter, registered in Pontypridd. Could this be your David Thomas?
But as you say, Thomas is an extremely common name, so one has to be careful they don't end up with lots of death certificates for a David Thomas, who isn't the one you are looking for.
Hi Again Joshua,
Should you want to get a copy of the Death Cert, - here are the references:
Deaths Mar 1924
Thomas David, 62yrs, Swansea, Volume:11a Page:1368
Let us know how you get on with finding the burial. (Cwmgelli Cemetary couldn't have been more helpful when I was trying to locate my late Uncle's plot. I phoned them and they were able to tell me straight away where he was, plot number and location etc. They even sent me a map with the exact location marked; which helped no end when I visited a few years back).
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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Hm, I am just looking again at the quote from the newspaper, it does say hes 62 in 1924? My grandfather would have been 52 at this time. Although, everything else does seems to fit, and i do know that Mary ann died in scotch street (thanks to a relative) and thats where they were living at, at that time, so possibly a misprint?
Looking on freebmd, there is a David thomas, aged 52 who died neath district June quarter 1924.
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Hi Joshua
I don't know how much you know about your David Thomas family, but I believe that David and his family lived in High Street, Abergwynfi, in 1901. The family are as follows:
David Thomas age 29, Collier, born in " Carm Lanelly"
Mary A age28 born in Pembrokeshire
Mary or May H age 4 born in Pembrokeshire
Lelian M? age 2 born in Pembrokeshire
They appear to be living with another family in 31 High Street Abergwynfi. So, as you have already stated, this family must have come to Abergwynfi within a few months of the 1901 census being take, as the youngest child, who is only 2, was born in Pembrokeshire.
I don't know if this is of any help, and my gut feeling is you already have this information, but just in case you don't, here it is.
And as you mentioned, you believe your ancestor was born in 1872, not 1862 as suggested in the Western Mail, by giving his age as 62 when he died. Therefore, the Neath entry would be the correct entry, as your ancestor died in Abergwynfi, so his death would have been registered in the Neath district
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Hi, yes you have the right family in the census, but thankyou regardless!
I think I shall go with this one and order the death certificate, as it sounds promising.
As ive only ever ordered certificates online, to do it in person, can i order it directly from the register office in neath?
regards, josh.
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Hello :)
If you order the death certificate, remember to specify the Abergwynfi address to be certain you get the correct one. I think the death would have been registered in June quarter because you don't get a proper death certificate until after an inquest.
Kind regards
Morgan
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Oh dear...perhaps that Death Cert Ref that I posted wasn't for the right David Thomas!
Apologies if that is the case... :o :o
Newspaper Articles do often get details like ages wrong though...but if the address fits then its probably relating to the right chap.
Romilly.
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Yes, you can ring the Neath registry office, and give them the details, or go in person. They will tell you if it's the right one, based on the information you give them, but they won't give YOU any information. You can either send them a cheque, or I believe you can pay with a credit card over the phone. But the best thing to do is give them a ring.
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Neath registry office are brilliant - they will do one cert while you wait, and post any others free of charge to you a few days later. They let me see the actual register to ensure we had the correct certs
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Well i've just got back from neath registry office, it is indeed the correct davidthomas, scotch street, suicide whilst of unsound mind, and the newspaper did have it wrong, he was 52 rather than 62. Id like to thank everyone for their help, i wouldnt have gotten round this so fast, thankyou, regards joshua.
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Glad that you got it sorted Joshua.
Such a sad story...the poor chap must have been desperate:-(
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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Hello Joshua :)
Newspapers got things wrong in those days too? ;)
I'm so pleased that you found all the facts around this sad part of your family history. I had a similar experience with a relative who was killed in tragic circumstances and it is bitter-sweet when you read the old newspaper reports. :'(
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Excellent, Joshua. It's such a good feeling when things come together, even though the events of the past can be so heartbreaking.
regards
Welsh-angel