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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Blue_angel2 on Wednesday 26 October 11 04:40 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am hoping someone will be able to help with a puzzle which has just surfaced involving our POTTS family in Manchester, Lancashire in the early 1900's. All help very greatly appreciated, cos we can't think where or what else to try.
I have just found living descendants of my mother's half sister, who she had never seen, and hence wanting to solve this puzzle now.
We (in Oz) were told that my grandmother's 2 children by her first marriage to John Victor Potts, Agnes & Tom, were brought up by her sister Florence, after John Potts died and Grandma emigrated to SA in 1913. There was regular correspondence until WW2 when all contact was lost with Florence and Agnes. Tom who was younger, was a career Serviceman in one of the UK defence forces for many years. Tom and his family were subsequently sponsored out to Australia. Mum met them.
However, my new found (yipee!!!!) cousin in England, who is Agnes's daughter, was told that her mum was brought up by the Potts family, and they had no knowledge of Agnes's brother Tom. Agnes married Edmund Kay jr in Bradford, Lancashire (have marriage cert) and had her own family.
We have the 1911 census and those before that, but have no idea where to look to find out actually what happened after 1911, and who brought up who, but are very curious to fill in the gaps. Both Tom and Agnes were mentioned in a letter to my Grandmother in 1934 from Florence, so we can't work out how Tom and Agnes could not have known about each other. ???
HELP please!!
Thank you.
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When was Thomas born,
is he Thomas Charles Potts born Chorlton September 1907,
there are a lot of willing helpers on these boards,save us time and give as much detail of the parents as possible,
death of a John Victor Potts ,Manchester,aged 23 ,June 1910,
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Hi Radcliff,
Thank you.
Parents Amelia Taylor and John Victor Potts (that would be his death record, thank you) had Thomas Charles and Agnes, but do not think it is the same Thomas Charles Potts that you mention, though it could be. We don't have a definite date of birth for him. I haven't found him in 1911.
In 1911 census John and Amelia and Agnes are living with the whole Potts family, but no mention of Tom. They had been married 4 years and Agnes was 3. We always thought that Tom was the older sibling but have not been able to find anything further about him until a letter in 1934, and subsequent photos in Oz after his family emigrated in c 1949.
Can you suggest where we could find Tom in 1911 if he WAS the one born in 1907? and also where i could find his service records, which may give more accurate information on his date of birth, address and family when he enlisted (Manchester regiment as far as i know and went to west indies in 1934 - per letter)
kind regards,
Barb
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The Thomas Charles i was looking at was born Chorlton September 1907,
but I will look again,
Amelia Taylor and John Potts ,marriage Chorlton Upon Medlock ,Register office or registra attended 1907,
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You say you have them together in 1911 ,so the death can not be your John Victor Potts
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Free bmd ,
Thomas Potts birth,Manchester ,March 1913,mother Taylor,
you would have to buy this certificate to see if he is yours,
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This may be him,
free to access,but pay to download,
Medal card,
Thomas Potts,Cheshire Yeomanry.1941 private in the Manchester Regiment,40445,
Private in the tanks corps,301759
use the National archives UK site
On line document ,WO/372/16
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The medal card above is for a Thomas Potts serving in the First World War. My uderstanding is that the Thomas you are looking for was only born just before the First World War.
Presumably Tom Potts died in Australia would not his death certificate give his date of birth and further information on his family? I know Australian death certificates I have seen show information on parentage.
Gibel
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www.findmypast.co.uk has the outgoing passenger lists on the site. Their T &Cs prevent look ups but the free index does show a possible Thomas Potts bn about 1906 travelling in 1950 from London to Adleaide. Narrowing down the search to just Potts 1950 London to Adelaide gives as well as Thomas
son bn 1934
H born 1928
Lilian bn 1908
daughter bn 1932
To me it looks as if it could be Thomas and wife Lilian and 2 children. Does the name Lilian mean anything to you?
I've removed the actual names as they may well still be living.
Gibel
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The entry for John Potts to Amelia Taylor on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk doesn't say John Victor Potts. Do you have the couple's marriage certificate?
Gibel
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Where's Florence in 1911?
This could be John's death Dec Q 1914 Chorlton Reg District volume 8c page 942
John Potts aged 27
Do you have date of entry of Amelia to Australia?
Gibel
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I have Marriage cert to John Victor Potts 3rd August 1907, Chorlton. She was living at 10 York Street Ardwick at the time. Amelia's dad had died 30th Nov 1904. have cert. John shown as an Umbrella polisher on his marriage certificate. His father John, was shown as a Carter.( His father's actual name was John Noah Potts) John jr lived at 86 Birch Street, Ardwick at the time of his marriage.
Amelia came out to Australia on the Berrima in 1913 arriving in July under her maiden name after her husband had died, then remarried in 1914. I wonder if Tom was born before they married? but then again, where was he in 1911, and where was Florence in 1911 - those two i haven't been able to find!!
Tom (Thomas Charles) married a Grace but don't know her other name. They had 2 children, Michael and Ethel. Grace and the kids came out to Oz in1949, have shipping record. and pics (she is labelled as Grace). They came out first then he came later because of service duties i suppose. I have a photo of him in uniform with his half brother my uncle also in uniform which was taken in SA. Tom was in WW2.
Thank you Radcliff also for stating the obvious which i had completely missed!! John couldn't have died in 1910!!! What a wally i am!!
There are so many Taylors and Potts and i have already got a lot of incorrect certificates in the past which i can no longer afford, so don't want to get any more unless they are the right ones and i really need them. I think Tom died in SA, in the 90's, but haven't been able to confirm that. To be honest, until this puzzle came up i wasn't worrying about Tom, just trying to find mum's sister Agnes, before mum goes. I will follow up on the medal.
Our certificates are also more than 3 X dearer than English ones, not even counting the exchange rates :( That is if you can even get the details to get them.
Thank you Radcliff and Gibel for your observations and information. Much appreciated.
cheers for now,
Barb
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On the marriage certificate was John listed as John Victor Potts? The r4eason i ask is that on both www.freeebmd.org.uk and www.lancashirebmd.org.uk the index only shows John Potts.
If it is shown as John Victor Potts he died before 1911 BUT that doesn't tie in with the 1911 entry again creating a puzzle.
Have you followed up the entries on find my past I found?
I think finding Tom and his descendants in Australia may solve the puzzle.
Gibel