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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: alveleyhistorian on Sunday 27 January 08 10:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi there,
Here is a real challenge - any help much appreciated
I have a elderly relative, who would love to know more about this, I have searched many times, but without results -
This is how the story goes -
Charlotte Margaret Binder( born 1888 daughter of Thomas William Binder) worked in Lyons Corner House as a waitress.
Every afternoon Lord Beresford came to have tea.
Charlotte ( known to the family as Lottie) married Lord Beresford and they lived in London in a large house with servants.
They had two sons Rupert and Claude.
I am always a little scepticle about family stories, as they can get "twisted" over time but I have found the birth of the two sons -
Rupert Seymour Beresford 1907 and Claude Francis Beresford 1909
but can't find any details of a marriage ?
The plot thickens -
The story describes that they met a Lyons Corner house - but Lyons Corner house's did'nt open until 1909 ?? so she must have been a waitress somewhere else ??
So I wonder, did a very poor working girl like Lottie ( her father was a cobbler !) marry a rich man, or did she just go to London to work as a housemaid in the house and her family elaborate the story ?
Any help much appreciated :) :)
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The only Lord Beresford I can see is Charles b.1845.d.1919
Apparently a very well known figure in his day.An Admiral of the Fleet & politician.
There isn't much census info. but in 1881 he was married to Mina & had a daughter Kathleen.
It looks like he married Ellen Jeromina J De M Gardener in 1878
He would have been 43 years older than Lottie.
Jim
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Have you the birth certs for the 2 boys?
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J.Lyons and Company Limited
The company established a chain of Teashops, Corner Houses and Restaurants with the opening of the first
Lyons Teashop in 1894 in Piccadilly,
The Trocadero restaurant in 1896
Lyons Corner House in 1909 in Coventry Street.
Maybe Charlotte worked at the Lyons Teashop
Regards
Topsey
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The only Lord Beresford I can see is Charles b.1845.d.1919
Apparently a very well known figure in his day.An Admiral of the Fleet & politician.
There isn't much census info. but in 1881 he was married to Mina & had a daughter Kathleen.
It looks like he married Ellen Jeromina J De M Gardener in 1878
He would have been 43 years older than Lottie.
The Times obituary for this Lord Beresford (8 Sep 1919) shows that his wife was Mina (nee Gardner), whom he married in 1878, and that he left two daughters.
So not your guy. But The Times does seem to have hundreds of other references to people called Lord Beresford, including a Lord William Beresford. Will see whether I can find Rupert or Claude.
Anna
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The only Lord Beresford I can see is Charles b.1845.d.1919
Apparently a very well known figure in his day.An Admiral of the Fleet & politician.
There isn't much census info. but in 1881 he was married to Mina & had a daughter Kathleen.
It looks like he married Ellen Jeromina J De M Gardener in 1878
He would have been 43 years older than Lottie.
The Times obituary for this Lord Beresford (8 Sep 1919) shows that his wife was Mina (nee Gardner), whom he married in 1878, and that he left two daughters.
So not your guy. But The Times does seem to have hundreds of other references to people called Lord Beresford, including a Lord William Beresford. Will see whether I can find Rupert or Claude.
Anna
Sounds fascinating Anna - look forward to hearing from you !
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I had a look here but couldn't see anything:
http://www.thepeerage.com/surname_index_B.htm
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Rupert Seymour Beresford 1907 and Claude Francis Beresford 1909...
I found the references that you describe, on FreeBMD ~ to Rupert Seymour C Beresford, Holborn, 1907, and to Claude Francis Beresford, Chelsea, 1909.
Have you seen the birth certificates?
Is it possible that they were his illegitimate sons?
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Hi Alverley historian,
Where was the tearoom?
Was it in England or Ireland?
I might have an idea if it was Ireland.
Regard
Vicky
Hi there,
Here is a real challenge - any help much appreciated
I have a elderly relative, who would love to know more about this, I have searched many times, but without results -
This is how the story goes -
Charlotte Margaret Binder( born 1888 daughter of Thomas William Binder) worked in Lyons Corner House as a waitress.
Every afternoon Lord Beresford came to have tea.
Charlotte ( known to the family as Lottie) married Lord Beresford and they lived in London in a large house with servants.
They had two sons Rupert and Claude.
I am always a little scepticle about family stories, as they can get "twisted" over time but I have found the birth of the two sons -
Rupert Seymour Beresford 1907 and Claude Francis Beresford 1909
but can't find any details of a marriage ?
The plot thickens -
The story describes that they met a Lyons Corner house - but Lyons Corner house's did'nt open until 1909 ?? so she must have been a waitress somewhere else ??
So I wonder, did a very poor working girl like Lottie ( her father was a cobbler !) marry a rich man, or did she just go to London to work as a housemaid in the house and her family elaborate the story ?
Any help much appreciated :) :)
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Hi Alverley Historian,
A friend of mine has found a file that you might be interested in.
So PM me and I will forward it to you.
It will answer your question.
Regards
Vicky
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Re Rupert Seymour Cecil Beresford - left England 1947 with third wife Joan. Three children all now in UK. WHat links to family?
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Rupert Seymour Cecil Beresford mother was a Binder - known as Sue. Certainly, unsure about her but he was born in London with brother Claude. Only know the BIdners were from Shropshire. She did not have hte demeanour of a cobbler's daughter and was quite haughty. SHe lived in Willesdon in Lodnon until her death in late 1900s. She was many years younger than her husband. GLad for details.
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Re Rupert Seymour Cecil Beresford - left England 1947 with third wife Joan. Three children all now in UK. WHat links to family?
My step-sister is the blood relative. She is now in her mid-eighties, so asked me to help her trace the history of Cissie Beresford ( nee Binder) and family
Cissie's real name was Fanny Gertrude Binder, and she was born in 1885, daughter of Thomas and Harriet Binder.
She married Rupert Beresford in 1929. Cissie and Rupert had two sons - * & * .
Hope this is a match..please get in touch
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Some of the dates eem a bit odd. Rupert and Claud were born in 1907 ish but not married unitl 1929. Odd goings on. Fanny Gertrude is correct but she was known as Sue. Very interested in the BInder side of things as have very little knowledge of that side. Have no detials of Rupert Seymour Cecil's first two wives but he left England in 1947 with Joan and had three children in Kenya. He died out in Kenya a well respected member of hte Kenyan business community. His mother visted in Kenya but little know of her life after Rupert Beresford died (he was a lot older than her) apart from the knowledge that she lived in Willesden London until her death. WOuld be glad to know of her family.
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Some of the dates eem a bit odd. Rupert and Claud were born in 1907 ish but not married unitl 1929. Odd goings on.
If born c1907 and married in 1929 would be aged about 22 years which seems perfectly possible.
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Ok. ALl these Ruperts get muddled. So far we have Rupert Beresford marrying Fanny Gertrude (Sue) BInder (known as Sue) then having Rupert and Claude in 1907 and 1909 ish. Rupert Seymour Cecil marrying three wives - firstly in 1929, then again, then to JOan round about 1947 ish. Rupert Beresford died in late 1940s/early 1950s. Rupert Seymour Cecil died in 1986. Joan is still going strong at * having remarried to a *. Rupert Seymour Cecil and Joan had three children (/Sue's grandchildren) *. All three children live in UK - * is married with no children, * married with two children and * has two children. Why was there no contact with the BInder family as Rupert Seymour Cecil and Joan's family tree very lopsided with little on the Beresford or BInder side. Rupert Beresford (SUe's husband) apparently was an only child whose mother died in childbirth - the father was distraught and threw himself down the stairs and died. NOt sure of his background but Rupert Beresford (the son) was brought up by cousins (linked with the Lord Beresfords). Need more work done on the Beresford cousins, etc. and the Binders.
* details of living people removed in accordance with Rootschat policy
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Thank you for your kindess and help..I will send you a private message..
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As per previous contact with Alvelyhistorian, I'm a relative of Rupert through his brother Claude. Drop me a line?
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Hello, I am in contact with the previous message writer. I am happy to help out.
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Hello. Please contact me regarding Beresford. Interested to see which relative