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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: markdrogers99 on Monday 24 October 11 11:31 BST (UK)
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Good morning.
I am currently reseaching my great grandfather, Cecil Duffy, and would be interested to locate his Australian birth records.
Name: Cecil Howard Duffy
Born: 19 April 1888 - unknown in Australia
Death: Melbourne, Australia
Parents: George 'Samuel' Duffy (could have gone by Samuel Duffy)
Annie Bray
On Cecil's UK marriage certificate in 1915 it indicated his father was deceased though occupation was an Engineer. In contrast on Cecil's Australian death certificate in 1960 he indicates that either his father or mother was a Minister of Religion. I am guessing this was in respect to his father as Cecil's religion was always noted as Church of England/Protestant.
Cecil Duffy joined the British military in 1908 and listed his birth place as Melbourne, Australia. His Next of Kin was his father, Samuel Duffy and listed his address as Stanhope Street, Melbourne. Cecil was discharged from the British Military as an Officer in 1920 where he was recruited by the Irish Constablary (RIC) and live in Ireland from April 1920 to March 1922. In August 1922 he migrated to Australia with his wife, Amy Duffy and daughter, Betty Duffy.
In 1939 Cecil Duffy enlisted with the Australian Army though gave his birth place, Plymouth, Devon, England and birth date of 19 April 1894.
To date I have been unsucessful in locating birth records for Ceil Duffy and even any birth/marriage/death records of his parents. I have also searched the UK General Registry Office for Cecil and his parents which has proved unsuccessful.
I am currently awaiting a copy of Cecil Duffy's UK Military file which I should have within the next week and hope there is further insight. It is believed that Cecil as indeed born in Australia and moved over to UK (with or without his parents) as he joined the UK Military when in England.
I really hope that someone is able to shed some light on this as am unable to trace this side of the family back any further.
Many thanks,
Mark
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certainl no birth showing in Victoria for 1888
either under Duffy or Bray.
Jenn
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Thanks Jenn for the prompt reply. I too have checked the Victorian records with no luck :-( Am thinking that he could have possibly been born somewhere else in Australia and then moved to Melbourne as a child.
Its puzzling that Im even unable to locate any census records of his parents.
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Whereabouts in Australia did he Die?
thanks Jenn
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Death in Vic
DUFFY Cecil Howard
Father Samuel Mother Annie BRAY
At Parkville 74 years 1960 Reg#1654
Cando
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He appeared to have abandoned his wife after he was discharged....
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=6086719&S=11&T=R
Australian Electoral Roll
1954 Queensland
DUFFY Cecil Howard, 46 Samuel Street, Camp Hill No occupation.
Cando
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Thanks Cando... this is unfortunately the only information I have located about his parents. I do have a copy of Cecil's death certificate and Victorian census records (1931, 1936 and 1937). On the 1942 census he is at a difference address and listed as Cecil Jack Duffy - this ties back to an address he provided at discharge from the Australian Military. It seems he may have seperated from his wife at the time of entering the Australian Army in 1939 as he says his Next of Kin was an R Duffy.
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Cando - are there any records as to who was also living at 46 Samuel Street, Camp Hill in the Queensland 1954 census?
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You have a copy of the Victorian electoral roll not census.
He states he was born 1890 with occupation clerk on the passenger record to Aus. He states that Mrs A DUFFY is his wife on his attestation papers in 1946. I haven't read his record thoroughly but I think he was joined the CMF in 1939. Have you obtained a copy of his RIC service?
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=6086719&S=1&T=R
Australian Electoral Roll
Vic 1931, 1936, 1937, 1942
DUFFY Amy 24 Sutherland Street, Coburg HD
DUFFY Cecil 24 Sutherland Street, Coburg Clerk
1949
DUFFY Amy 24 Sutherland Street, Coburg HD
You would have to scroll through the electorate to find out if anyone else was living at that address. Electoral rolls are not searchable by address.
Cando
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Just to clarify something ...
In 1942 ER Cecil Duffy is still recorded as living in Sutherland Street Coburg with his wife. He's been consistently listed as a "Clerk" and has lived at this address, with his wife Amy, since 1931 (according to the ER's)
There is ANOTHER guy listed as well on the 1942 ER. His name is Cecil Jack Duffy and he's in Moreland Road Brunswick West. This guy is a "Traveller".
I see that the Sutherland Street address was given on Cecil's Draft Card for WW1 as his current address.
Is it possible that there are actually two guys with similar names as the second name "Howard" isn't listed on any pre WW11 Electoral Rolls?
Di
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There is ANOTHER guy listed as well on the 1942 ER. His name is Cecil Jack Duffy and he's in Moreland Road Brunswick West. This guy is a "Traveller".
The address "72 Moreland Rd, W Bruns" is annotated in manuscript at the top of the 1951 letter about CHD's whereabouts (reply #5). So perhaps Cecil Jack Duffy was his alias?
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AVM228 and Lady Di - I believe 'Cecil Jack Duffy' to be his alias. I came to the same conclusion as on his army record he uses the '72 Moreland Rd, W Bruns' address though on the same papers in 1939 he said his wife was a 'R Duffy'.
Am still at a lose as to why there is no records of his parents, (George) Samuel Duffy and Annie Duffy (nee Bray).
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So he is born 1888 on this index
Royal Irish Constabulary
DUFFY , Cecil
Birth 1888 Australia
Film # 2093 Page#201 1920
When Cecil DUFFY [no 2nd given name] applied for his WW1 UK service medals in 1926 his address was 24 Sutherland Street, Coburg, Melbourne, Australia.
Cando
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Am still at a lose as to why there is no records of his parents, (George) Samuel Duffy and Annie Duffy (nee Bray).
Perhaps they are not his parents' names.
Cando
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Hi
Congratulations on your public tree on a commercial site - great to see such a well-documented/sourced piece of research. So often they are unsourced and incorrect.
Just some thoughts........................
His death certificate shows that the informant is an 'authorized agent' so we have no idea who actually gave the information, some of which appears to correspond with other information and some doesn't. Interesting that his wife is named but the section asking for his "issue" states "not any".
His actual date of death - 15 January 1960, buried at Fawkner, 21 January 1960
Speculation - given his connection with the Irish constabulary later and with the Irish Hussars I wonder if he may have been born in Ireland??
Good luck with trying to get any further with this chap who seems to have been a little economical with the truth at times. ??? Judith
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I have searched numerous directories and cannot find any listings for either a George or Samuel DUFFY in the 1888 Postal Directory or the 1911 Directory. There was a Samuel DUFFY on the Vic bdm indexes however he was married to a Clara and they lived in Carlton. His death notice names his children and no Cecil amongst them.
The only Stanhope Street in Melbourne metropolitan area is in the suburb of Malvern.
At the end of the first decade in the 20thC whilst Cecil was enlisted, he stated he had turned 23 at his last birthday and was born Melbourne, Australia.
Judith I also wondered if he was born in Ireland :)
Cando
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The image from WW2 record, image 11 of 12, and shown at reply #5 -
is that "unmarried wife" pencilled at the end of the letter
(wife applying for passport)?.
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No I believe 'unmarried wife' refers to who he could have listed as living with at time of discharge. His 'real' wife, Amy Duffy (nee Pengelly) was British and from Looe, Cornwall. There are ship records of Amy leaving Australia twice (1951 and 1954) heading back to Britain visiting relatives.
Re Cecil being born in Ireland, I too thought this and searched the Irish records but to no avail.. I've been living in Dublin for past 5yrs.. big coincidence lol
His British army record as mentioned in original post said he was born in Australia and his father Samuel was from address Stanhope St Melbourne.. This was in 1908.
He certainly is a mystery and am starting to think he told a lot of untruths re where he was from and who is parents were!!
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I did also wonder if he was illegitimate and his birth not registered. I have searched pretty thoroughly even using simply Cecil and mother Annie and then 1887 and 1888. Bit late for me. I will have a look at some other directories tomorrow but I really don't hold out much hope. If his father was an engineer or Anglican minister I would have thought he would have been listed.
Cando :)
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What else is on the marriage certificate 1915 please...residential address, occupation, church, witnesses, age..etc
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please see attached marriage certificate.
Copyright image removed
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Hi,
A marriage certificate and death certificate are only primary sources of information for certain facts - that a marriage or death took place. All other information on them has to be questioned as it is hearsay evidence including the names of the people involved especially when no other certificates were in those times were required to prove your name or identity.
I have incidents in my family tree where mother's had died in childbirth so the names got confused on marriage certs. Or death certificates where there were so many children that they had several attempts to get them right. I even had one who hypenated their name adding his mother's maiden name.
I recently attended a conference where we were told how people changed their ages up or down depending on the need, they upgraded their occupation or rank to impress the new family or in Australia changed from convict to free settler.
I would consider looking at all the possible variations for his name and his father's name in case the name was registered as something quite different. If you know the family and the family history and think about it for awhile it may become obvious to you. I am not being silly here think of the naming patterns etc. I haven't yet looked at your tree but it is better if you think inside it for awhile.
Many people of that generation had names that they were given and names that they used, so this too can confuse matters.
Cheers
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It would be interesting to see a copy of his funeral notice in the newspaper of the day to see if any family members are name in the notice.
Whoever gave the death information must have known something about him,
I tried all variants of his name to search for a birth as no doubt did others, I ruled out the child born in 1888 to Samuel Duffy and Clara by finding his death.
Jenn
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The WW2 record at NAA has Cecil Howard Duffy in Berlin in 1946.
He would be nearly 60 by then, job description clerk.
Pre-war job description is labourer.
I am sure that such postings would be highly regarded and sought after.
How did he get that sort of posting....language skill perhaps?.
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Duffy gave his dob as 19.04.1894 when enlisting with Australian Army.. 6 yrs younger than he really was.
At discharge from the British Army in 1920 he was a Captain with a Military Cross. He was then recruited in Apr 1920 by a Major as a specialist instructor with the Royal Irish Constubalary (RIC) and based in Ireland until the RIC were disbanded by the UK Government in Mar 1922.
I am awaiting his UK military file from Ministry of Defence though understand there is a newspaper article from Jun 1922 inficating he was ran out of Ireland at gun point by the IRA and put on a boat to Holly Head, where he was found penniless and with no belongings. Am starting to think he could have been in intelligence whist based in Ireland as the RIC were to keep the IRA at bay in order for Irish independence to be stopped.
I believe Duffy had the experience to work in Berlin working with the Australian and British militaries.
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In his attestation papers signed 14 Feb, 1946 he gives his occupation as 'clerk' which is the occupation he gave consistently on electoral rolls 1931-1942. Papers signed 1939 also have occupation as clerk. Ages given by those enlisting are often altered to fit with requirements of the military.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/index.aspx
The idea of him being in intelligence would fit well, but it will be interesting to find out the info from the UK military file. I have just read a book about a couple having to leave Ireland at about 1920 as they were on a death list, because of the trouble re independence. They left very hurriedly and with little money. Do you know which paper the article was in?
Judith
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The newspaper is the Westminster Gazette an article date is June 1922 I haven't been able to locate a copy though have been told it will be in the military file that is being sent to me. If you cab locate the article would be very keen for the link. The article I've been told references his name.
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Unfortunately no catalogue entry for Westminster Gazette at Australian National Library. Perhaps a library in Dublin may hold archive copies?
Nothing in The Times around 1922. Judith
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No death or funeral notices in The Age or The Sun unfortunately. Hardly surprising! ???
Judith
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Hi Judith,
By any chance could there be a funeral notice for his wife, Amy Duffy, who passed away on 10 Feb 1956 in Fairfield, Victoria? At that stage her daughters would have been aged 37 and 32.
Additionally would the be a funernal notice for Amy's brother, William Austin Pengelly who passed away on 16 Dec 1976. William migrated to Australia in 1927 and lived in the family home with Amy as noted on ER 1931, 1936, 1937, 1942 and 1949.
Many thanks,
Mark
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Will have a look unless someone else beats me to it!!
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I notice from his death crtificate that he was buried in Fawkner but he is not showing up there
Jenn
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Jenn.. Surprise surprise lol his wife Amy and her brother, William Austin Pengelly were laid to rest at Faulkner as well. funny that there is a record of them at the cemetery though it's like Cecil's record has been deleted?! Another mystery lol how can someone just disappear?
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This is the death notice for amy
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/72535420?searchTerm=%22duffy%22&searchLimits=l-title=The+Argus+%28Melbourne%2C...|titleid%3A13|||l-decade=195|||l-year=1956|||l-category=Family+Notices|category%3AFamily+Notices
There is also a Probate notice stating that
Clara florence Lewis is the executrix of the will.
Here is a death for Clara she was cremated at Faulkner
Clara Florence Lewis July 28, 1983, aged 73
Cheers Sue
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Thanks Sue... would you have the link to the Probate notice? I am interested to understand who Clara is as I would have expected Amy's brother, William (Austin) Pengelly to be executor. Clara is not a relation to Amy - could be a friend? Cecil's sister? Its interesting to note that Cecil is not mentioned at all in the notice.
To help clarify who the people are in the death notice;
Ena Brockley (later Ena Rogers - nee Duffy) - my grandmother (no birth cert locatable)
Samuel Brockley (Ena's estranged husband at the time)
Betty Bartlett (former Betty McMenamin - nee Duffy)
Harold Bartlett (husband of Betty Bartlett)
William 'Austin' Pengelly (Amy's brother from England who migrated to Australia in 1927)
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Clara's information:
Marriage:
LEWIS Albert Allan m. EDEN Clara Flor 1934 #7234
Death:
LEWIS Clara Florence d. 1983 FITZ #17221
Father: EDEN John Richard
Mother: Annie Eliza
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Burial of Cecil at Fawkner:
DAFFY Cecil H age 71yrs 21/01/1960
Protestant, Compartment B, Grave 3982 - Monumental
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Probate link:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/72537550?
Judith
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Burial of Cecil at Fawkner:
DAFFY Cecil H age 71yrs 21/01/1960
Protestant, Compartment B, Grave 3982 - Monumental
nice find Merlin,
it would be interesting tosee if there is a headstone and what it says on it
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Thanks Merlin!! I have emailed the cemetary and asked if there is a headstone, and if so, what the inscription says on it.
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The varying documents I have indicate DUFFY was born in Australia. In 1908 he enlisted with the British Military in Colchester, Essex, England and stated he was born in Melbourne Australia in 1888.
As we are unable to still locate any birth record for DUFFY, I would be keen to locate any immigration/ship records of a C Duffy (or similar, possibly 'Davey' born 1888) departing Australia and/or arriving in England between 1888 and 1908. He could have been in the company of his parents, Samuel (or George) and Annie Duffy (or similar name variations). Possibly Cecil could have been a sole traveller.
I have found a lead in respect to a possible living relative of his deceased eldest daughter. Due to privacy act and confidentiality laws I am awaiting the family to contact me.
Again thanks to everyone for the continued help.
Mark
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This could be a side track, but I have just searched the National Archives of Australia for Amy DUFFY .... and turned up the following (not yet digitised)
William Austin PENGELLY, VX71990, born 18 Nov 1905, at Looe, England, enlisted Caulfield Vic, next of kin AMY DUFFY ...
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/index.aspx the barcode for that specific file is 6071648
Fingers crossed, cause the 1931 Electoral roll has his then address as 24 Sutherland St, Coburg... and he was still there in 1949, still a labourer
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM.... I found William Austin Pengelly's record on the WW2 archives a month back when searching individually for Duffy records. I paid for the records to be opened and am awaiting a copy of his WW2 file. Before finding this on NAA I was not aware that Amy Duffy's brother migrated out to Australia. I have since located the same electoral records with William (known as Austin) living with Amy Duffy from when he arrived until after he got back from the war.
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Well, my fingers are definitely crossed now ;D hoping there's correspondence on that file, perhaps correspondence from/to Amy or Cecil Duffy or even from/to Mrs R Duffy ....
Cheers, JM
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Fingers crossed indeed! I started reviewing the electoral roll for West Brunswick in 1949 when Cecil was living at 72 Moreland Road. I managed to get through A - K and then R (with no luck) as am very keen to understand who else lived at that address with Cecil. Need to sit down and go through the rest... very tedious process though keen to uncover who R Duffy was as she definately was not married to Cecil so her surname would be different.. needle in a hay stack! ???
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Umm...
Who was the Mrs R Duffy who owned a seven room house at the corner of Moreland and Royal in West Bruswick and as mentioned in the following cutting? Tuesday 8 December 1925 The Argus
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2171914
(And who was the arsonist involved)
Cheers, JM
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1925 Electoral Roll
Rose Helena DUFFY at Royal Crescent, Brunswick North, home duties
Eileen DUFFY, Royal Cres, tailoress
Francis Michel DUFFY, Royal Cres, joiner
John Gavin DUFFY, Royal Cres, carpenter
Cheers, JM
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Well Mrs R Duffy circa 1940s was NOT the Rose Helena Duffy who died 1931 at Coburg, aged 72, dau of John WILLIAMS and Rose Helena Lavery Vic d.c. # 8870
Sorry, I'm not really familiar with Vic records, I am too NSW centric.
Cheers, JM
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Interesting... the only reference i have to an 'Mrs R Duffy' in the family history (so far) is the mention by Cecil on his Mobilization Attestation Form in November 1939 indicating 'Mrs R Duffy' as his wife. At this time he indicates his address is 102 Reynards St, Coburg though to date have not located anyone (even Cecil) with this address.
With the time line I have it seems Cecil Duffy seperated from his wife Amy sometime between 1937 and November 1939. Though it seems Cecil still had his official electoral roll address in 1942 as 24 Sutherland St (while he was still in the Army).
Cecil moved (migrated to or back to?!?) to Australia in 1922 with Amy and their daughter. Unless 'Mrs R Duffy' is a relative of Cecil's I dont think this is the same person he mentions as his 'wife' in 1939.
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Are there any NSW records for Cecil Duffy? His daughter, Ena Margaret Brockley, moved to Sydney in 1953 with Vernon Whitfield (later changed his name to Ian Rogers). They later married (not sure if it was official) and Ena took his surname, Rogers. Unfortunately Ena Rogers passed away in 1965 in Sydney when my father was 8 years old.
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I will have a good search tomorrow, it is near midnight here.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM... Do really appreciate your help! ;D
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Hi there,
From the Sydney Morning Herald, 21 July 1965, pg 47, funeral notice
ROGERS. The Relative and Friends of the late ENA MARGARET ROGERS are kindly invited to attend her Funeral; to leave St Nicholas’s Church of England Church, Brook Street Coogee, This (Wednesday) Morning, after a service commencing at 11 o’clock, for the Eastern Suburbs Crematorium.
Wood Coffill Funerals, Randwick.
I will send you a PM with the family notices (two, from page 48 of the same edition), as they may mention names of living persons.
Cheers, JM
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From the Crematorium online index
http://www.esmp.net.au/search-map-facility/crematorium-search.aspx
ROGERS, Ena Margaret, aged 40, service 21-07-1965, ashes located Rose Gardens, Garden L5.
From the NSW BDM online index
Ena Margaret ROGERS, dau of Cecil Howard and Amy, registered at Sydney in 1965, #3324
NSW BDM d.c.s are nearly as informative as Vic BDM d.c.s, of course both are only as reliable as the informant's own knowledge, and should include details of her marriage/s. Official transcripts are cheaper and quicker and can be sent as pdf attachments.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm
Cheers, JM
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Previous thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,558200.0.html
Cando
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The only record for Cecil himself, other than the Victorian ones, seems to be the Queensland electoral roll entry, which seems odd - to me, anyway.
I notice he signed Betty's marriage certificate in January 1941 so he was obviously still in touch with the family who were still at Sutherland St. I would think he and Amy may have separated as late as 1941 or 1942. Well done to find the others in residence at 72 Moreland Rd. They may have been no relation and just letting a room to him - accommodation was very scarce after the war.
The handwriting that states Mrs R Duffy in 1939 looks different from his signature which seems more rounded in shape - thus I would not attach too much importance to Mrs R Duffy being a different person as I think it may well be an error on the part of the person filling in the form, and transcribed wrongly on the next page.
Judith
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[quoteThe handwriting that states Mrs R Duffy in 1939 looks different from his signature which seems more rounded in shape - thus I would not attach too much importance to Mrs R Duffy being a different person as I think it may well be an error on the part of the person filling in the form, and transcribed wrongly on the next page.]
I agree with you Judith.
Cando
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I also agree with Judith and Cando re Mrs R Duffy ....
It is possible the recorder heard "Amy" as though it was "Arrrrmee" and simply wrote "R"
Cheers, JM
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the only reference i have to an 'Mrs R Duffy' in the family history (so far) is the mention by Cecil on his Mobilization Attestation Form in November 1939 indicating 'Mrs R Duffy' as his wife. At this time he indicates his address is 102 Reynards St, Coburg though to date have not located anyone (even Cecil) with this address.
Am starting to agree with you all that there was no Mrs R Duffy.. but in reference to the separation I think this could have occurred as early as 1939 as Cecil gave his address as 102 Reynards St, Coburg which is not the family home and I have no other record of this address.
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Ok... I received Cecil's UK military file and he has revealed a bit more information around his family, more specfically two older brothers that I did not know of. On his Military application form dated 3 March 1908, Cecil advised the following family members;
Samuel Duffy (father) - address: Stanhope St, Melbourne, Australia
George Duffy (older brother) - address: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Arthur Duffy (older brother) - address: Montréal, Quebec, Canada
He also listed that he was born in Melbourne, Australia on 3 March 1888, though again it seems he was fibbing about his DOB as 3 March is the date he joined the UK Military in Colchester, Essex, England.
Again I draw a blank with locating any records of his older brothers (along with his father) so at lose as to where now to look.
I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the direction of any resources.
Many thanks,
Mark
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Hmmm - certainly seems somewhat economical with the truth, does Mr C H Duffy ::)
The only Samuel DUFFY I see on the electoral rolls in Victoria from 1903-1909 lived in Canning St, Carlton, a labourer. At the same address is a Clara DUFFY, home duties; Samuel Horace DUFFY, labourer is also at the address in 1909.
There are a few Stanhope Streets in the Melbourne suburban area - West Footscray, Broadmeadows, Malvern, Eltham. Was there a post code included in the address? Melbourne had somewhat similar post codes to London in the past - eg the area I lived in was Mont Albert, E10, Vic
However methinks your Cecil may just have made all this up - a brother in Buenos Aires sounds a little over the top - however.................................. ???
Oh he is a frustrating chap :-\
Judith
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Hi there,
On Cecil Howard Duffy's 12 pages of his Australian Military records, on his attestion papers dated 14 Feb 1946, he lists his next of kin as :Mrs A Duffy, 42 Morehead Road, etc . Very definitely an "A" in the old handscript. That document gives his then age as 51 years 10 months, and d o b of 19.4.1894, born Plymouth, Devon England. If he was actually born in 1888 then he would have been nearly 58 years when he enlisted .... Umm... no wonder he became younger ;D
At Page 2, his service gives 2.11.1939 to 13.2.1946 with CMF and then with AIF 14.2.1946 to 25 Mar 1947.
At page 4 of those, it is possible to read that his nok is Mrs R Duffy, 102 Reynards St etc and that was also his then address. This was 1 Nov 1939. That handwriting is all capitalised. His Army no. is V81.911
Page 6, the handwriting is different, the VX number is 129266, and the clerk has simply transferred the info from page 4 to the form on page 6, so the nok becomes Mrs R Duffy. I think it is a simply transcribed error.
What a mystery. I wonder if Cecil was one of Australia's chaps in the cold war era.... I wonder if he had a backroom role in the Petrov Affair. Oh I do love a good mystery....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Security_Intelligence_Organisation
Cheers, JM
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@judb - I agree C H Duffy was definitely out to hide his past (or families past) as to date I have yet still to locate birth/death/census/electoral roll records for his parents and now alleged older brothers (apparently all living in the four corners of the world in 1908!). His UK Military file does not mention a post code or suburb for Stanhope St - he just lists Melbourne, Australia.
Interestingly enough he listed his occupation when joining the UK military in 1908 as a Ship Steward and had a letter of recommendation from a missionary with the Gordon Smith Institute in Liverpool, England (apart of the Liverpool Seamen's Friendly Society). On his death certificate in 1960 it was indicated his father was a Minister of Religion..... could his father have been a missionary to seafarers?
http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/gordoninstitute.html
Alternatively could it be that C H Duffy was possibly an orphan? In 1915 on his marriage certificate he indicated his father, George Samuel Duffy, was deceased and father's occupation was an Engineer. Additionally the three witnesses at the wedding in June 1915 in Cornwall, England were;
1. Edward Pengelly (Brides father)
2. Victor Rogers
3. Lily Mary Jones
Interestingly enough C H Duffy's daughter, Ena Margaret Duffy (no birth certificate has been located - b. 1924 d. 1965), was married to S C Brockley when she met my grandfather, Vernon Whitfield, in Melbourne in the late 1940's (possibly early 1950's). They were both married though moved together to Sydney where they changed they're names to ROGERS. Vernon changed his name to Ian though Ena only changed her surname.
This leads me to believe that Victor Rogers (witness at C H Duffy's marriage) was possibly someone significant to either the Pengelly or Duffy family. Alternatively could ROGERS be Cecil's real surname?
@majm - I am currently sifting my way through the electoral roll to see how was living at 102 Reynards St, Coburg around 1939 as this is the only mention of C HI Duffy living at this address, as the family home was 24 Sutherland St, Coburg.
I can understand Cecil stretching the truth of his age to enlist with the Australian Army, as he was a decorated officer in WWI with British Military, awarded an MC and subsequently was recruited into the Royal Irish Constabulary thoughout the Irish war of independence (1920-1922). Interestingly enough I noticed on his Australian war file that he was based in the Australian Mission in Berlin Germany from I think 1946. What would he have been doing there? it seems strange post war to be based there? Maybe he was involved in some intelligence work for both Australian and UK governments??
I agree with you both, fascinating story though very frustrating at the same time! All I wanted to find was his birth certificate and his parents records so I could research the 'Duffy' lineage.
::)
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;D well, it is like this ...
we haven't actually found his bc Y E T, and it is ALL his fault .... could not ever be our flawed BDM indexes in the various states .... so you will just have to be satisfied for the moment at least with the various slices of a variety of meats as they come to hand to add to the bones when :D :D (not ever IF) we do eventually find those parental bones of his ;D I am quite sure there was a great deal of covert Aust involvement in the various "overseas" intelligence services. ::) Until someone finds his bc you will just have to be satisfied with our meagre offerings from those slices of meats. ;D . I hope once we have found those parental bones that you don't have nearly as much difficulty with those two lots of forebears. 8)
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Hi Mark,
During and after WW1, security was ramped up and Mr Wiki says that in Australia "The War Precautions Act 1914–1915 required that all persons over 16 years of age, on leaving the Commonwealth, possess a passport." There was a similar Aliens Act in Great Britain.
I see from another RootsChat post that the Archives of Ireland holds a card index to passports (applications?) 1922-1945. The link given is http://homepage.eircom.net/%257Eseanjmurphy/nai/govdepts.htm (Department of Foreign Affairs) Might be worth checking for Cecil and family to see if any new info was provided at the time of emigration? Also UK Archives http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/passport.htm?WT.lp=rg-22875
There are a lot of confidential Cabinet Office Papers relating to British Intelligence which are free to download on the UK archives site. They are searchable PDFs so when you enter keywords they will find all documents with those words. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SEARCH/quick_search.aspx
I will also add here that the NAA records that are indexed in their website catalogue are only a very small percentage of the records held by them. Perhaps an enquiry will unearth something more? http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/askquestion/index.aspx
Have you checked the 1901 and 1911 UK census to see who was living at the London address that Cecil gave when he enlisted in 1908?
Have you followed up on Cecil's "College of Preceptors" qualification?
http://www.ioe.ac.uk/services/957.html
What was he doing in Cornwall in 1915?
Debra :D
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Hi,
Betty McMenamin Bartlett nee Duffy is part of my McMenamin family and i have contact with a living relative of Betty.
I haven't read this total thread but if there is anything i can ask this relative for you let me know!
Regards
Jo