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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: kdviner70 on Friday 21 October 11 13:39 BST (UK)
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Looking for record of marriage of Thomas Ivinson to Sarah Hewitson (Hewetson or even Hewiston). Thomas baptized 1802 probably near Cumrew where his father Joshua had a farm. Sarah baptized 1805. Oldest son Joshua born probably 1825 possibly after they moved to St. Croix Danish West Indies. At a dead end trying to track down ancestors of Sarah. I am a researcher with the Laramie Wyoming USA museum housed in the former mansion of Edward Ivinson, son of Thomas.
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Hi
Welcome to rootschat :)
In case you don't have it From the IGI http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
THOMAS IVINSON
Christening 28th MARCH 1802 Cumrew, Cumberland, England
Parents:
Father: JOSHA IVINSON
Mother: ELLENOR JAMES
Rosie
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Thank you very much! I searched the IGI but somehow missed that entry; careless of me. That certainly confirms Cumrew as place of baptism and the names of his parents Now if we can find a record of the marriage. That would not only solve the question of when they were married, but might also help determine the correct spelling of Sarah's last name and even her ancestry.
Here is a photo of Edward courtesy of the LPM.
Sincerely
Kim
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IGI has marriage.
groom's name: Joshua Ivison
bride's name: Eleanor James
marriage date: 24 Jan 1799
marriage place: Lazonby,Cumberland,England
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Thank you very much. That certainly helps with the sleuthing. Still looking for the marriage of Thomas and Sarah Hewitson.
Sincerely
Kim
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I found this which might refer to Sarah's death,
London Probate Index
Sarah IVISON
Month: Nov
Year: 1845
Type of record: Administration
Court: Consistory Court Of London
Place: Foreign Parts
Record source: London Probate Index 1750-1858
I've never used this resource so can't be of much more help but there is some info here,
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/helpadvice/knowledge-base/wills-divorces/index.jsp#probateIndexLondon
I'm going to put a link here to your other post about this family so other's don't duplicate the info,
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0fub/
Hope this helps :)
Daisy
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Holy cow! That may just be the first evidence of when Sarah died. The time period is correct. She was listed in the 1841 census of the Danish West Indies living with her husband Thomas. In the 1846 DWI census he was listed as a widower. So she died between 1841 and 1846. It is also a good clue that she is listed as "Place: Foreign Parts." That is exactly how her male children were listed in the 1841 English census when they were pupils in Brampton.
Interestingly, Thomas's will and probate records were found in the Danish Archives in Copenhagen this past summer.
Many thanks!
And thanks for linking!
Sincerely,
Kim
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Hi Kim,
I hope this does turn out to be 'your' Sarah :)
Please let us know if you find the will etc, it's always nice to know if things turn out well. Also if you're lucky she might mention some of her own relatives :)
Daisy
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Hi
I think this is the probate Daisy found
26th November 1845 Sarah Ivison late of Cadiz in the kingdom of Spain Spinster
died 10th June 1841
Person making Affidavit William Parke Ivison 5 London Place, Hackney, Middlesex
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Oh dear :( but it's always good to discount wrong leads.
If you don't mind me asking Rosie, I'm quite new at looking for Probate etc, where did you find this info?
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Well, we'll put that on hold then. Cadiz is nice though! Lived near there for two years. :)
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For anyone who might be interested, here is the website for the Laramie Plains Museum:
http://www.laramiemuseum.org/
Note: some of the history of the family has not yet been updated with results of my research.
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Kim,
I have a lot of Hewetson ancestors who were farming in the same area but don't know your Sarah.
Could you advise 'where' she was baptised in 1805 and how you know please? Also the names of her parents?
Regards
Jolyon
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Thank you very much for your reply.
Baptism date for Sarah is from Danish West Indies census of 1841. Listed as born England. Living on River Estate St. Croix. Wife of Thomas Ivinson, baptized 1802, from England. Both were "Episcopal Protestant." Do not know at this time names of parents nor where she was born. That, unfortunately is part of the problem. More details here http://www.rootschat.com/links/0fub/ of remainder of family.
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Kim,
Don't think I can help with your research but pass on the following that you might find useful (in case you didn't know);
1) Majority of my Hewetson ancestors originated in and around Cumwhitton, which is less than a mile from Cumrew, and though they pop up in various places none have a Cumrew connection as I recall.
2) The spelling of the name is generally as Hewetson, though there are a number of instances where they were recorded as Hewitson. (An example is my gran who was so recorded on the occasion of her baptism at Cumwhitton and marriage at Carlisle).
I did find a Hewetson/Ivinson link at Carew on ancestry.co http://awt.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?
Though obviously not your Sarah it suggests you are on the right track, with with likely ancestors there.
Good hunting
Jolyon
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Thanks for the reply and the hint. However, I have tried my darnedest and can't get that link to open anything on ancestry.co.uk. Is there another way it could be listed?
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Kim,
Sorry the link didn't work - think it might be my fault. Will send you a PM with details and further info.
Jolyon
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Looks pretty much like at a dead end. May contemplate hiring a researcher though.
Thanks for all the input!
If anything does turn up, I'll come back and post.
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Hi
I'll see whst I can see at Whitehave Cumbria Archives in West Cumbria. It'll be limited though as these are further north. There are copies at Carlisle though. I'll be back there eventually.
I did have a Hewitson turn up when I was researching a friend's family and there are a large group just south of Penrith.
Not yours but it might be woirth extending the search. Many of these are rural parishes where most people lived on the land around rather than on the village centre and also moved around with farm work or even if they were luicky married into a landed family a few miles away.
Many of the rural familioes I've looked at in the area married at Penrih - o even Brampton in your case?
Have you looked afrt surrounding parishes and those between Cumrew and Bramptin or Penrith?
I'll see what I can see. Also, given that they emigrated, in the ports?
Just a few thought!
best wishes
Emms :)
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Thank you very much!
I have looked at what seems to be the only parish records I could find or some very nice people here and at other forums have suggested. There are some Sarah Hewitson (or Hewetson) baptisms/biriths that are close to her baptism date (1805) as she listed it in the Danish West Indies census of 1841. For example Wigton 1804 and Cockermouth 1807. But, no one has been able to find a marriage in England. I have sent an query to a noted genealogists working in St Croix to see if it is possible that they could have married there. No word back yet. I have tried the passenger lists I could find. Nothing to date for arrivals in St Croix online (with passenger lists).
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Hi
You're welcome. might not help but you never know! It's muich eassier looking even on the net when you know the geography of the place and what's available!
I'll keep you posted!
Emms :)
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Thanks again.
I do have maps printed out with the location where the Ivinsons known to be in the tree were listed at various times:
Thomas - Edward's father, baptized 1802 Cumrew, residence 1823-1847 St. Croix West Indies, 1847-1857 St. John West Indies; death 1857 Cinnamon Bay Estate St. John West Indies.
Joshua - Edward's grandfather, birth 1778 Cumrew, marriage 1799 Lazonby, residence 1841&1851 census Cumrew; death 1857 Croglin
Edward - birth 1830 St. Croix West Indies, school 1841 census Brampton, drapers helper 1851 census Carlisle, USA 1853 to death 1928.
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Hi again
Limited success so far!
I've looked at a few parishes with no marriage. I'll havew a go at a few more next time.
One thing I did find though you may know about. Did you know there's a large sandstone gravestone in Cumrew for Thomas's parents and siblings? Thomas and his brother both gewt a mention as died in the West Indieds and the year.
I've only seen a printed transcript but it's relatively recent - 1990's I think, so hopefuly the stone's still there and still legible. It says it's tall, red sandstone with a wreath motiff on it.
Probably not much new info but I'm wondering if they were keen enough to put him on the stone whether there might also be a news paper mention which might solve the odd mtstery? I'll have a llok.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Hi
First mentioned are Joshua the elder and wife Eleanor
And chioldren imcluding Joshua their son, died in the West Indies 1854 aged 34 and Thomas their son died in the West Indies , 1856 aged 54.
I wonder if the 34 should be 54 as they could look similar on a worn stone. Otherwise just the odd year different.
OOf the children mentioned, these two out lived all except Edward who died locally aged 90. The others were young teenagers.
I expect you have the other info.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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I have not seen that stone nor has any one else mentioned it!
As far as I have been able to determine Joshua (Sr) may have been the father of the Thomas Ivinson I'm researching who died in the Danish West Indies in 1857 at age 55. So what you found is very close to what I had discovered! I have a copy of his will and also the bill for his burial on St. John. Both were found in the Danish archives in Copenhagen this summer.
There are multiple Edwards. "Our" Edward died in 1928 at age 97 at his winter residence, the Brown Palace Hotel in Denver, Colorado, USA (the Brown Palace was owned by the "Unsinkable" Molly Brown). The potential confusion arises that Thomas had a brother named Edward. He is the uncle of the Edward who moved to the U.S. and became very successful in Wyoming.
I think you may have found the first evidence of the death of Joshua (son of Thomas and grandson of Joshua)! I have him in Brampton in the 1841 census at age 16 (ergo born 1825) with his brothers Thomas Jr, John and Edward (the Edward who moved to Wyoming). No evidence after that.
Edward's age in 1841 matches with his often self stated birthdate of 1830 and the family history that says he went to Croft House Academy in Brampton. The ages for Joshua are different but perhaps there is a transcription error or something similar along the way.
Edit - I have found a family tree on ancestry.com that shows that Thomas Ivinson (son of Joshua) had a brother named Joshua who was born 1820 (and would be the uncle of Thomas Ivinson's son Joshua). Perhaps the 1820 Joshua also went to the West Indies. I looked at the available online West Indies census records and there is no Joshua Ivinson listed. However, the census only covers St. Croix and only the years 1841, 1846, 1850 and 1855. I do have an email from a reaercher in the Virgin Islands who found an entry for a J Ivinson as a manager of an estate on St. Croix in the late 1830's. That could be the 1820 Joshua. Odd though that he lived until 1854 and does not turn up in other records.
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Hi
Thank you for all the feed back.
Joshua is given as son of Joshua
Best wishes
Emms :)
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Actually thanks are due to you. Another Ivinson added to their family tree (Joshua son of Joshua) and a link to the J Thomas in the West Indies!
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Hi
I'm thinking that maybe I should look at the originals of as many events as possible wjhere people have found them in an i ndex.
Also Independent records if they survive.
Emms
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Hi
Thank you!
I think my post crossed with yours.
Best wishes
Emms :)
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FYI
George Tyson from the Virgin Islands responded that there are no records available that would indicate Thomas and Sarah were married on St. Croix rather than in England.
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Hi
Thank you.
I was wondering about that. No hope there then!
I'd hoped as you said they were Episcopalian there might have been a record in the Independent parishes but there don't seem top be any likely records - unless they went to Brampton or somewhere? They evidentlyh had links there.
Thank you for the message about Joshua.
Thrilled you've found something new anyway!
Best wishes
Emms :)
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"I think you may have found the first evidence of the death of Joshua (son of Thomas and grandson of Joshua)! I have him in Brampton in the 1841 census at age 16 (ergo born 1825)"
Be careful, ages in 1841 were rounded so don't rely on birth year. bob
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Excellent information. I will definitely keep that in mind!
Kim
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Edward & Thomas James Ivinson were baptised in the parish church Cumrew July 28th 1838. Their parents are Thomas & Sarah Ivinson and Thomas' occupation is given as Merchant in St Croix. I have a copy of the baptism entries in front of me as I write this.
I also have a copy of the will of Joshua Ivinson but unfortunately he does not mention Thomas. I am assuming Thomas received his share of his father's estate when he left for St Croix.
I have researched this family as my friend of over fifty years married a descendant of Edward Ivinson brother of Thomas.
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More excellent information. I am sure that the Thomas (the St. Croix merchant) you mention is the Thomas I have been researching. There might be an explanation for Thomas not being mentioned in Joshua's will. It is possible that he died before his father did. Both died in 1857, but I don't know what the exact date was for Thomas. All I know was that it was in "the summer" which would be before Joshua's death in September. The 1857 report of Thomas's death is from a detailed examination of his ownership of Cinnamon Bay Plantation on St. John, DWI (written by historian David Knight) where he moved after departing St. Croix.
Re Edward (b 1830) and Thomas (b 1833) siblings and sons of Thomas. The family history says that 1837/8 was the time frame that Sarah took the boys back to England for their schooling. Edward reportedly remembered being in England at the time of Queen Victoria's coronation. I guess their parents decided that they should be baptized in England rather than in the Danish West Indies.
I have just finished the galleys of the bio I have written on Edward. About 35000 words on his 97 years.
If you or your friend is interested, I could send you a pdf of the book via email. It would be great to get your thoughts on the book; especially the portion on his ancestry and his siblings.
I would love to see an image of the baptism entries and any other information that you have on Edward, his ancestors and siblings.
Thanks again!!
Sincerely
Kim Viner
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I am finding it very difficult to find my way around this website - just spent half an hour trying to find this page before I went back to your email and followed the link in the second email.
I have posted the baptisms and the will of Joshua Ivinson on my website,
www.margaret-hall-genealogy.com The baptisms are clear but page two of the will doesn't enlarge well however they will give you an idea of the information I have and I can send them via email. Contact me via the website to avoid displaying an email address.
I do not know where my head was last night although I was in a panic trying to find my copy of the wills (I took them out of my working folder when I went to Carlisle last month) but Thomas is mentioned in the will. I also forgot to mention my GGGrandmother's brother Thomas Best married Elizabeth the daughter of Joshua Ivinson so my tree and my friends husband's trees are connected although we are not related.
I would like to read the Bio you have written on Edward and I am sure George & Dorothy Ivinson would too. Please let me know if you would like copies of the docs I have posted on the website -Margaret.
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I have replied to you via email to your website.
Thanks!
Kim
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At the end of the year and before the new year, I wanted to again thank all of you who have provided me with information on the family of Thomas Ivinson b. Cumrew 1802. Still looking for that elusive information on his wife Sarah (Hewitson). So if you have found anything new, please let me know!
Kim Viner